Marvel and DC Villains

[Quasimod0]

Did a search and didn't see a thread specifically to talk about the villains of DC and Marvel movies. How do you guys think each company is handling their villains? How could they improve?

 

[Val_Zod]

As it stands, Marvel approaches their villains as being obstacles to overcome purely that. DC, since the Dark Knight, while they also present themselves as obstacles for the hero, they take the route of being clever foils to the heroes. I imagine we will be seeing many of the villains of the DCCU make recurring appearances unlike the Marvel villains.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

As it stands, Marvel approaches their villains as being obstacles to overcome purely that. DC, since the Dark Knight, while they also present themselves as obstacles for the hero, they take the route of being clever foils to the heroes. I imagine we will be seeing many of the villains of the DCCU make recurring appearances unlike the Marvel villains.

I think the argument could be made that zod wasn't nearly as interesting as either joker or bane. So maybe it's safer to say that Nolan did a good job making clever foils for batman. And we have yet to see if Snyder can do the same for BVS.

As for Marvel, they pay alot of attention getting the characterizations of their heroes right. They have only done Loki and Kingpin really well so far. The others have been ok. Ultron was particularly disappointing. Hopefully we can get our next loki or kingpin with spideys rogues.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

X-Men does good at giving their villains character

 

[Quasimod0]

I think Marvel Studios has thus far done the best job at nailing the characterization of their heroes. Affleck's Batman looks to be pretty perfect, but we can't be sure yet. And then Henry's Superman could probably be great but he just didn't have much to work with at all in MOS.

On the other hand, I thought Marvel 100 percent nailed each of the main heroes in their first solo outings.

But with all the focus on the heroes, the villains have suffered a bit. Some much more than others.

 

[DA_Champion]

Snyder can make villains ... see Xerxes.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

I think Marvel Studios has thus far done the best job at nailing the characterization of their heroes. Affleck's Batman looks to be pretty perfect, but we can't be sure yet. And then Henry's Superman could probably be great but he just didn't have much to work with at all in MOS.

On the other hand, I thought Marvel 100 percent nailed each of the main heroes in their first solo outings.

But with all the focus on the heroes, the villains have suffered a bit. Some much more than others.

Yeah I agree 100% and if you've seen daredevil that's the one where they hit the perfect mark in getting the characterizations of both the hero and the villain (along with the supprting roles) just right.

 

[Quasimod0]

X-Men does good at giving their villains character

They definitely do, or at least the few who have been used. Unfortunately they've relied so heavily on Magneto and Mystique that we haven't seen a lot from other villains. Trask was forgettable, Brian Cox was good for the one film he was in, and oddly enough XMO:Wolverine had one of the best in Sabretooth.

 

[Quasimod0]

Yeah I agree 100% and if you've seen daredevil that's the one where they hit the perfect mark in getting the characterizations of both the hero and the villain (along with the supprting roles) just right.

Heck yeah we can't forget about Fisk. He was better than most CBM villains put to screen. But he did have the advantage of being fleshed out over a whole season.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I think the most fleshed out villain has been Doc Ock in SM2

 

[The Joker]

Ock was handled by Sony though not Marvel. But if we're talking Marvel based movies I'd say Magneto is the most fleshed out villain.

 

[Quasimod0]

Yeah probably so. But Magneto has had 5 going on 6 movies to be fleshed out.

 

[Spiderine]

Magneto was an excellent villain right off the bat in the first film. Bad from the jump with an agenda and purpose.

 

[Batmannerism]

Here's a few that come to mind. More of a review than what they could do to improve. But as a general statement I'd say that both Marvel and DC have had a couple of outstanding villains, a few noteworthy ones, a bunch of serviceable but forgettable villains, and a handful of truly awful villains.

Marvel............

Magneto (yes, technically he's fox) : the best, he's had 6 film appearances and 2 brilliant actors. In fact he's almost an anti-hero, rather than a straight up villain. We can kind of sympathize with him, which makes him all the more relatable.
But, so far he's been the only worthwhile villain in any of the X-Films. Kevin Bacon doesn't even come close.

Loki: Close second, Hiddleston gets better with every performance. He was a real scene stealer in Thor TDW, definitely Marvel studios best villain.

Green Goblin: (from the Raimi film) pretty good. Willem Dafoe hamming it up, but convincing as a nutcase.

Robert Redford was a pretty decent evil megalomaniac in Winter Soldier, whereas the titlular character just hits stuff, not really a tour de force performance.


Obidiah Stane wasn't bad in Iron Man, but that film didn't need a nemesis type of villain, as it was all about Tony's change of heart.

Dr Octopus: A solid performance by Alfred Molina, probably the best we could expect from a live action Doc Ock. I'm not sure I would rate him even close to Loki, Magneto, Ledger's Joker or even Shannon's Zod - but he does the trick (despite the whole fusion reactor thing being really dumb - they chucked a mini-sun into the river, OFFS ! Come on guys that was beyond stupid, it's on a par with flying around the world really fast to turn back time.



Malekith, Whiplash, Red Skull, Sabretooth, Venom and Sandman: not great, very lacklustre performances.

The Mandarin...........ugh !

Dr. Doom doesn't even deserve a mention, simply dreadful.

DC

The Joker: probably the best comic book villain ever. Well served by good direction and two great performances. Leto is going to need to bring his A game to even be passable as this iconic character.

Sinestro, probably the only good thing about the GL movie, and Mark Strong at his villainous best.

General Zod: enjoyed both performances, Stamp and Shannon. Very different versions of the character but each worked well within the context of the film.


Lex Luthor: pretty good all around, I mean in the 70's Hackman's hammy performance was pretty standard. Looking forward to Eisenberg in 2016.

Two-Face: Great in TDK, awful in Batman Forever.

Riddler: no matter what anyone says, I loved Carrey as the Riddler, probably the best thing in Batman Forever.

Bane: Didn't really like Hardy's mumbling warlord version, a huge waste of his talents. Surprised Nolan got that so wrong.

Ra's Al Ghul: Pretty solid performance by Neeson.


but DC has some **** villains too, like the fart cloud in GL, the witch in Supergirl, everyone in Catwoman, Tommy Lee Jones as Two-Face, Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy, Arnie as Mr Freeze....



So all in all, I would say that DC has had as many crap villains as Marvel, but possibly a couple more really outstanding ones, and probably holds the heavy weight champion belt for evil with Ledger's Joker. I was really hoping that Ultron would be an outstanding villain, probably the biggest disappointment in Age of U - the real villain is Tony Stark's paranoia.

 

[Quasimod0]

Do you guys think its fair to say that Marvel Studios villains have been consistently okay (Malekith, Whiplash), to great (Loki)? I don't think they've had one yet that was just embarrassingly bad.

 

[kedrell]

I'd say Malekith is their biggest trip up when it comes to a villain. He's not embarrassingly bad but he was disappointingly sidelined.

 

[The Joker]

Magneto was an excellent villain right off the bat in the first film. Bad from the jump with an agenda and purpose.

I agree. The opening alone in the Jewish Concentration camp in X1 was powerful stuff. I love how First Class expanded on that scene.

 

[Slade W]

Kingpin is the best Marvel Villain for me so far. Nolan's Batman films had excellent villains in each film (Ra's, Joker and Bane) but it is too early in the DCCU game to say how good their villains will be as all we have had so far is Zod (who was a good villain).

 

[TeeKay]

Marvel genuinely doesn't know how to write nor portray their villains. Apart from a few, all their villains have been lackluster to say the least. Their films ate more centered around the heroes which all well and good. But you know what they say, a hero is only as good as his villain. Loki, Kingpin, Ultron, Winter Solider, Stane are the stronger MCU villains for me.

DC has great villains. Well in the Nolan trilogy anyways. Yes even bane (though I didn't like that he turned out to be a love sick puppy dog at the end). He was a complete badass. Joker is the greatest on screen CBM villain. No argument there. Ledger completely transformed himself into the character and he owned it. Zod was okay in MoS. He needed more screentime because it always seemed like he was angry all the time and Shannon was being over the top at times. We'll see but as it stands now, DC has stronger on screen villans. The only Marvel villain that rivals THE joker is Fox's Magneto. He's such a well written and layered villan portrayed by great actors.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I don't think marvel studios are inherently bad at villains they just don't put the effort in as they do with their heroes.

Ock was handled by Sony though not Marvel. But if we're talking Marvel based movies I'd say Magneto is the most fleshed out villain.

Good call.

I agree. The opening alone in the Jewish Concentration camp in X1 was powerful stuff. I love how First Class expanded on that scene.

And it's scenes like that that make X1 stand the test of time for me. It's lacking in action to be sure but delivers on story and theme

 

[Quasimod0]

Another thing to take into consideration is that Marvel has had a LOT more movies in the last few years than DC has. Marvel has had many chances to both screw up the villain, and to make them great. DC has really only had the Dark Knight trilogy, Green Lantern, and MoS.
So this is their recent record, imo.
Batman Begins- Scarecrow was alright, and Ra's was only there for a bit, but he was good.
The Dark Knight- The Joker was possibly the best CBM villain of all time, and Two Face was good.
Rises- I really enjoyed Bane. Thought he was a good villain, until he was a bit cheapened at the end.
Green Lantern- some of the worst villains in any CBM.
Man of Steel- Zod wasn't amazing, but he was fine and served his purpose.

 

[Vulture]

Do you guys think its fair to say that Marvel Studios villains have been consistently okay (Malekith, Whiplash), to great (Loki)? I don't think they've had one yet that was just embarrassingly bad.

Consistently Ok, yes. Great, no. When i think about great, i think about The Joker, or even Bane, and i personally don´t think Loki is playing in the same league as those boys.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

For me Loki was great in the first movie as he had emotion and depth. Since Avengers he's been too smarmy and moustache-twirling for my taste

 

[The Joker]

Well in fairness Loki's only been in one movie since Avengers.

 

[Tony Stark]

Another thing to take into consideration is that Marvel has had a LOT more movies in the last few years than DC has. Marvel has had many chances to both screw up the villain, and to make them great. DC has really only had the Dark Knight trilogy, Green Lantern, and MoS.
So this is their recent record, imo.
Batman Begins- Scarecrow was alright, and Ra's was only there for a bit, but he was good.
The Dark Knight- The Joker was possibly the best CBM villain of all time, and Two Face was good.
Rises- I really enjoyed Bane. Thought he was a good villain, until he was a bit cheapened at the end.
Green Lantern- some of the worst villains in any CBM.
Man of Steel- Zod wasn't amazing, but he was fine and served his purpose.

I think this is the big thing. Marvel has been making a ton of these films and really since the Nolan films, DC has made Man of Steel. Unless you want to go back and compare really bad DC villains like Nuclear Man, Richard Pryor, and Mr. Freeze.

Marvel is also at somewhat of a disadvantage in that some of the top villains in their stable are locked in with other studios. The biggest one from their studio they've dealt with has been Loki and he's a no. 1 favorite. Other top ones for me have been Stane, Ultron, and Winter Soldier. Thanos really hasn't done anything yet, so it's premature to judge him.