The Villains Problem

[hafizbat]

I actually like the idea behind Ares. Him being behind the scenes, carefully nudging humanity to destruction is satanic and poetic, and it plays beautifully against Diana's optimism.

But they botched it really, really badly first by miscasting him and making him a fragile, harmless looking old gentleman and then with his atrocious writing in the final battle.

Kaecillius is far, far better than Ares. He has a good backstory, great look and acting, etc etc. I think the worst you can say about him is that he was merely effective and not something more.

 

[hafizbat]

As far as the villains problem I think it's time to change the status quo about MCU villains being weak.

MCU: Their last 4 movies have featured Zemo, Kaicillius, Ego, and Vulture. These villains are all quality and a huge step up from the days of Whiplash and Malekith. If this is the level of a typical MCU villain, I'm satisfied especially because villains are never the focus of MCU movies anyway (we'll see about Thanos).

Fox: Last few villains have been Doom, Ajax, Apocalypse, Donald Pierce/X-24. As consistently inconsistent as ever.

DCEU: Zod, Lex, Enchantress, Letoker, Ares. By far the worst of the worst. DC has fallen far, far, far from the Nolan days. Ra's, Joker, and Bane are still the cream of the crop.

So it's more of a DCEU problem these days. I don't see anything coming up that will fix it either, at least until Reeve's The Batman hopefully.

 

[metaphysician]

Only villain that might have been more forgettable to me is Kaecilius, who at least had a nice scene where he talks about immortality to Strange. Nothing Ronan did stood out to me, he would stop a great movie dead in his tracks whenever he took focus of a scene.

Ronan set up the perfect straight man moment for the dance-off. That alone justifies his existence.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm still going to go with Ego over Vulture. I think character-wise and design-wise he's more unique and interesting. Vulture was still very good though.

 

[metaphysician]

Increasingly, I think most of the dislike of Ares comes down to the mustache. He doesn't look like peoples' stereotypical image of the God of War, all monstrous muscles and physicality and macho looks.

I suspect that, with time, Ares will be looked upon more favorably. He's not a great villain, but he's a good one. His appearance isn't even his main problem, just a distracting surface texture.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Ronan set up the perfect straight man moment for the dance-off. That alone justifies his existence.

Yeah, I thought the super straight-laced Ronan made a good antagonist for the wacky Guardians. Plus, his motivations made sense, both his hatred for Xandar and for Thanos. The biggest problem with him was that they killed him off. He still had unrealized potential. But he was a good villain other than that. He was no Malekith.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Increasingly, I think most of the dislike of Ares comes down to the mustache. He doesn't look like peoples' stereotypical image of the God of War, all monstrous muscles and physicality and macho looks.

I didn't have issues with his look at all.

 

[hafizbat]

I don't think the look of Ares is the only reason, but rather the one people latch onto and understandably point to first to express his overall weakness.

Ian Mckellen as Magneto was also just an old, fragile looking man with no physical presence yet he brought gravitas and commanded respect through great acting and writing.

 

[2kt09]

Increasingly, I think most of the dislike of Ares comes down to the mustache. He doesn't look like peoples' stereotypical image of the God of War, all monstrous muscles and physicality and macho looks.

I suspect that, with time, Ares will be looked upon more favorably. He's not a great villain, but he's a good one. His appearance isn't even his main problem, just a distracting surface texture.

It's mostly the animated disney/pixar school of a twist villain whose facade could have been fleshed out more to give it the extra "did not see that coming" OR alter-ego could have been more jaw-dropping.

 

[TeeKay]

I don't think the look of Ares is the only reason, but rather the one people latch onto and understandably point to first to express his overall weakness.

Ian Mckellen as Magneto was also just an old, fragile looking man with no physical presence yet he brought gravitas and commanded respect through great acting and writing.

Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It's mostly the animated disney/pixar school of a twist villain whose facade could have been fleshed out more to give it the extra "did not see that coming" OR alter-ego could have been more jaw-dropping.

You know what it reminded me of? M really being Moriarty in the LXG movie with Sean Connery.

 

[DOBSON10]

I think I'm one of the few people that didn't particularly care for Ego. I thought Russell overacted for most of his screen time, was campy at times and Ego's story just wasn't interesting to me. He never felt menacing or threatening to me, even though his powers were obviously very strong.

I thought Ronan was much better, but as I've said around the boards, my preferences for villains are different than most. I like the mean SOB, intimidating villains better. Ronan was mean and intimidating all the way up to the dance off, where the character fell apart. But he took out Drax with ease (though after seeing GotG2, Drax hasn't been as powerful in these 2 movies as his name says he supposed to be "The Destroyer"), took a blast from Rocket's canon and laughed it off, and was just nasty and unrelenting throughout the movie.

Definitely agree with the majority in the thread though that this is not an MCU problem. All studios have had at least 1 good villain, couple other solid ones and a bunch of duds. The DCEU has been almost entirely duds so far, though I thought Zod was very good, one of the better villains in a CBM.

 

[2kt09]

You know what it reminded me of? M really being Moriarty in the LXG movie with Sean Connery.

Haven't seen that in a long while.

 

[hafizbat]

I think I'm one of the few people that didn't particularly care for Ego. I thought Russell overacted for most of his screen time, was campy at times and Ego's story just wasn't interesting to me. He never felt menacing or threatening to me, even though his powers were obviously very strong.

I thought Ronan was much better, but as I've said around the boards, my preferences for villains are different than most. I like the mean SOB, intimidating villains better. Ronan was mean and intimidating all the way up to the dance off, where the character fell apart. But he took out Drax with ease (though after seeing GotG2, Drax hasn't been as powerful in these 2 movies as his name says he supposed to be "The Destroyer"), took a blast from Rocket's canon and laughed it off, and was just nasty and unrelenting throughout the movie.

Definitely agree with the majority in the thread though that this is not an MCU problem. All studios have had at least 1 good villain, couple other solid ones and a bunch of duds. The DCEU has been almost entirely duds so far, though I thought Zod was very good, one of the better villains in a CBM.

I feel you. I like Ronan better than Ego as well. In fact I think Ronan is one of the most satisfying MCU villains, when it comes to straight up comic-booky villainy. Red Skull is also a guilty pleasure of mine when it comes to villains.

 

[Visualiza]

So...does anybody else like Justin Hammer? I hate IM2 but good god, Sam Rockwell was that movie's diamond in the rough. I'd say it's one of those cases (IMO anyway) where you have a good antagonist in spite of an otherwise dull movie. Any other examples of this?

 

[2kt09]

So...does anybody else like Justin Hammer? I hate IM2 but good god, Sam Rockwell was that movie's diamond in the rough. I'd say it's one of those cases (IMO anyway) where you have a good antagonist in spite of an otherwise dull movie. Any other examples of this?

Ghost in the Shell

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So...does anybody else like Justin Hammer? I hate IM2 but good god, Sam Rockwell was that movie's diamond in the rough. I'd say it's one of those cases (IMO anyway) where you have a good antagonist in spite of an otherwise dull movie. Any other examples of this?

I liked him, he was entertaining to watch, but that was mostly because of Rockwell. I thought they gave him a really good set up to come back as well in future movies, but it doesn't look like that will happen .

 

[OcStat]

Looking back, Rockwell is probably the highlight of Iron Man 2.

 

[metaphysician]

So...does anybody else like Justin Hammer? I hate IM2 but good god, Sam Rockwell was that movie's diamond in the rough. I'd say it's one of those cases (IMO anyway) where you have a good antagonist in spite of an otherwise dull movie. Any other examples of this?

I think IM2 gets too much hate, but yeah. Justin Hammer was great. I'd love to see him again, as the mastermind behind a team of second-tier villains.

 

[DACrowe]

I actually like the idea behind Ares. Him being behind the scenes, carefully nudging humanity to destruction is satanic and poetic, and it plays beautifully against Diana's optimism.

But they botched it really, really badly first by miscasting him and making him a fragile, harmless looking old gentleman and then with his atrocious writing in the final battle.

Kaecillius is far, far better than Ares. He has a good backstory, great look and acting, etc etc. I think the worst you can say about him is that he was merely effective and not something more.

I actually think the concept of him presenting himself to Diana and humanity as a a feeble old man is clever. Who sends people to their death in wars? Old men who make grandiose promises, be they generals or politicians, and who usually never pay any sort of personal cost for all the carnage and death.

However, the fact they wanted that and him to become a CGI monster that bellows clichés and fights her by hand? No. They should have kept it in the abstract or gone a different way with it.

Still like him better than Kaecillius, mostly because Kaecillius angers me in how much it wastes a great actor.

 

[Timebomb]

So I never saw Guy Ritchie's King Arthur movie but I just saw a clip on Youtube of King Arthur fighting some guy named Vortigern or something and by God that's what I think Ares should have looked more like. The look was really cool. He was also silent which I wish Ares was. But talk about video game visuals. I kinda dig what the movie was trying to pull off based on thus clip,.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I feel you. I like Ronan better than Ego as well. In fact I think Ronan is one of the most satisfying MCU villains, when it comes to straight up comic-booky villainy. Red Skull is also a guilty pleasure of mine when it comes to villains.

And yet Ronan should be anything BUT "straight up comic book villain". He had no depth, no ambiguity, none of the nobility that makes him stand out in the comics. He was just an angry villain who served solely as a straight man to the Guardians' jokes. And Kaecilius was every bit as forgettable as Malekith, I really don't get where all this support from him is coming from....

All that said, their latest villain track record is 3 for 4, so I'm increasingly optimistic about them fixing that problem.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Increasingly, I think most of the dislike of Ares comes down to the mustache. He doesn't look like peoples' stereotypical image of the God of War, all monstrous muscles and physicality and macho looks.

I suspect that, with time, Ares will be looked upon more favorably. He's not a great villain, but he's a good one. His appearance isn't even his main problem, just a distracting surface texture.

It's the old conundrum of if Supergirl is just as powerful as Superman, why does Superman need to be a muscle bound brute. Ares is a god, he doesn't need muscles because his power isn't based on physical strength, but rather on magic.
To be honest Ares didn't even need to build himself a suit of armor. Just Patty's concession to people that wanted something that looked kewl in the final battle.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Even if Ares looked intimidating, he'd be terrible. He'd look cool being terrible, but he'd be terrible nonetheless. The monopoly man look just gives it that extra dose of bathos to send it over the top.

 

[DACrowe]

That's not bathos. Bathos is intentional.

I still like that the God of War actually looks like the face of a man who causes war and benefits from it. I would have foregone the armor and traditional battle altogether and it would have worked better.