Marvel July Solicitations

[TheCorpulent1]

Dude, you're the one who started the whole argument by roasting Marvel over a pit for having the audacity to publish a comic book you've prejudged to be stupid without really knowing anything about it. If you think it's stupid, fine, don't buy it. But there's no need to b**** about the sad state of the comic market and how Pet Avengers is somehow going to decrease the overall quality of the comic market simply by existing. If you just think it's stupid, say so instead of trying to justify your irrational hatred of it with specious examples of why other niche books are somehow relevant while Pet Avengers is not.

For the record, I'm not buying Pet Avengers because I think it's gonna be stupid comedy or because animals are always funny. I'm buying it because I like the characters, just like I buy Captain Britain and MI-13 because I like Dane and Brian, just like I buy the Immortal Iron Fist because I like Danny, just like I buy Thor because I like Thor. The characters here just happen to be animals. Big deal. The fact that they're such niche characters just makes me more thankful they're getting a comic published at all. I mean, I love Beta Ray Bill too, but he's about as niche as niche characters get and his comics'll be lucky to break 40 or 50k, even with the benefit of being related to the wildly successful Thor series, but so long as Marvel publishes comics about him--for whatever reason--I'll take them, too.

So let the fact that they're revisiting characters people enjoy be the purpose for Pet Avengers if you so desperately need one. Pet Avengers is not the affront to common decency and the artistic merit of the comics medium that you seem to think it is. It's a light-hearted comic about some much-loved characters who happen to be animals. Will it suck? Possibly. But if it does, it'll just fade away and nobody will care.

Incidentally, as far as I know, Pet Avengers could be in continuity. Most notably, Thor isn't the Frog of Thunder. Why bother changing that if they were throwing continuity to the wind? Just because Lockjaw's there, doesn't necessarily make it conflict with War of Kings. It could simply be taking place at a different time. We found out yesterday that A:TI's current arc takes place on the same day Osborn was elevated to his current status, before HAMMER's name was even announced, for example, and that was about three months ago in most of Marvel's other comics.

 

[Themanofbat]

You tool

Oscar...

Your love for me knows no bounds...

 

[Dread]

Dude, you're the one who started the whole argument by roasting Marvel over a pit for having the audacity to publish a comic book you've prejudged to be stupid without really knowing anything about it. If you think it's stupid, fine, don't buy it. But there's no need to b**** about the sad state of the comic market and how Pet Avengers is somehow going to decrease the overall quality of the comic market simply by existing. If you just think it's stupid, say so instead of trying to justify your irrational hatred of it with specious examples of why other niche books are somehow relevant while Pet Avengers is not.

For the record, I'm not buying Pet Avengers because I think it's gonna be stupid comedy or because animals are always funny. I'm buying it because I like the characters, just like I buy Captain Britain and MI-13 because I like Dane and Brian, just like I buy the Immortal Iron Fist because I like Danny, just like I buy Thor because I like Thor. The characters here just happen to be animals. Big deal. The fact that they're such niche characters just makes me more thankful they're getting a comic published at all. I mean, I love Beta Ray Bill too, but he's about as niche as niche characters get and his comics'll be lucky to break 40 or 50k, even with the benefit of being related to the wildly successful Thor series, but so long as Marvel publishes comics about him--for whatever reason--I'll take them, too.

So let the fact that they're revisiting characters people enjoy be the purpose for Pet Avengers if you so desperately need one. Pet Avengers is not the affront to common decency and the artistic merit of the comics medium that you seem to think it is. It's a light-hearted comic about some much-loved characters who happen to be animals. Will it suck? Possibly. But if it does, it'll just fade away and nobody will care.

Incidentally, as far as I know, Pet Avengers could be in continuity. Most notably, Thor isn't the Frog of Thunder. Why bother changing that if they were throwing continuity to the wind? Just because Lockjaw's there, doesn't necessarily make it conflict with War of Kings. It could simply be taking place at a different time. We found out yesterday that A:TI's current arc takes place on the same day Osborn was elevated to his current status, before HAMMER's name was even announced, for example, and that was about three months ago in most of Marvel's other comics.

I wouldn't lump Beta Ray Bill with PET AVENGERS material. Right now Bill is a spin off from the very successful THOR. It makes sense to put out material around him.

I love the irony when Marvel has a solict and will consider C-List characters "fan favorites". I suppose DC does that too, but I am bemused by that term because too often it describes someone like, say, Darkhawk or Quasar; characters that a minority of us vocal internet fans like or may be decent characters, but are clearly NOT "fan favorites" because they haven't supported their own ongoing in over a decade. Absolutely no one likes Lockheed. No one "demanded" the return of Niels, Speedball's super-powered cat. There's also something smarmy about the 3rd part of a 4 issue mini assuming that the series will be embraced by fans before issue #1 has shipped. "iHerc" can get away with solicts like that because it has gotten critical acclaim; even KICK-ASS can to some degree (even if it's covers are usually arrogant).

I don't suffer such delusions. I may like Darkhawk, but I would never call him a "fan favorite". He can't even support more than 24k for a two issue mini series (albeit at $4 a pop). Perhaps "Cult-Favorite" character would be a better term for some of these fellows, but I guess that means changing some slang.

Fine, I think PET AVENGERS is stupid and represents a glut in Marvel's catalogue, as does MARVEL DIVAS at this point. I questioned the wisdom of trying to revisit the 2099 line. The "sequel" to MARVELS is about ten years too late and I haven't heard much good about it. Stuff like TRUE BELIEVERS may have "been forgotten", but they add to publishing costs, and ideally, Marvel should be trying to reduce those as much as they can, vs. expecting their customers to shoulder that burden.

In a market where "flat" is the new "up", Marvel is selling more copies & comics to fewer fans at higher prices. I don't think that is healthy long term. Now is not the time for aimless vanity projects that serve no purpose or have no hope of selling well, or even decently, or even somewhere above abysmal. Now is not the time for "forgettable" material. While people have been fearing the collapse of the direct market for about 6 years now, right now comics are the only print medium that isn't 100% in the gutter like most magazines and newspapers have been for a while. Some of us wonder how long that can be the case. Comics survived depressions and recessions before, but that was usually at 10% of the prices they are now.

To me, animal characters are akin to sashes; them being stupid/annoying is the rule, not the exception. For every awesome one like Cosmo or Rocket, there are about a half dozen Snarf's or Scrappy Doo's, characters that make you want to tear out your own eyes with a rusted spoon rather than bare with more shrill lines or "comedy" antics. A mini starring an entire CAST of such annoying pet characters seems completely insane. The glut of Marvel's print catalog is merely an unpleasant detail.

I'd rather not talk about PET AVENGERS again. I dare say that almost more of us have been arguing about my opinion of it than will actually read it.

Besides, c'mon. I had to hear no end of abuse when I bothered with stuff like ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL or HELLCAT or even BIG HERO 6 (the latter I regret). I didn't throw a temper tantrum and demand everyone else justify their own cult books, like some posters have.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I never abused you about any of that. I abused you about continuing to read comics you didn't like for like a year after they started bugging you.

 

[Blader5489]

Dread, stop complaining about things that you have absolutely no influence over. If you really think Pet Avengers will prove to be the death knell for Marvel, then send your concerns to Joe Quesada posthaste.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Dread, seriously man, you're the one who started this whole thing. If I recall you were the one who started by saying it was stupid and then we questioned you on this apparent disgust you have over the issue. Not to mention you later more or less compared us who want to read it to those who watch stupid internet videos and laugh for '7 straight hours'.

If your viewpoint is really that strong on the Pet Avengers thing so be it, but don't try to spin yourself as the victim or something.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I wanna complain about something!

And this might be the first time I've seen Teardop post anything other than the comic lists

 

[Tron Bonne]

And this might be the first time I've seen Teardop post anything other than the comic lists

Heard someone dissing on the Pet Avengers and I just couldn't let that passt:

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm so excited for it. I really want to see who the new Frog of Thunder is. I wonder if Lockheed's total betrayal of Shadowcat will come up, too.

 

[Dread]

I never abused you about any of that. I abused you about continuing to read comics you didn't like for like a year after they started bugging you.

I never razzed you about so many of those DC books you have no hope for, yet still bother trying out.

Dread, stop complaining about things that you have absolutely no influence over. If you really think Pet Avengers will prove to be the death knell for Marvel, then send your concerns to Joe Quesada posthaste.

And what if I did?

Dread, seriously man, you're the one who started this whole thing. If I recall you were the one who started by saying it was stupid and then we questioned you on this apparent disgust you have over the issue. Not to mention you later more or less compared us who want to read it to those who watch stupid internet videos and laugh for '7 straight hours'.

If your viewpoint is really that strong on the Pet Avengers thing so be it, but don't try to spin yourself as the victim or something.

Tell me, then, what audience is Marvel seriously hoping to get with PET AVENGERS other than the "folks who like funny animal video" audience? You could add of all Lockheed, Frog Thor and Lockjaw "fans" across the Internet and be lucky if they totaled the people who read ARCHIE, at $2.50, every month (which is about 4,000-5,000 people). "Comedy" books are usually the "kiss of death" sales wise, at least according to Robert Kirkman, and have been for some time. I still fail to see the point in releasing a series that has little chance of selling above the Top 85 at the start. I suppose Marvel MAX falls under that principle, as many of those titles sell so poorly, even at $4, that some wonders if Marvel sees any profit from them.

I'm not completely against Lockjaw; he was amusing in THE THING. The rest, though, why? Seriously, why? It's like MARVEL NOIR. Why do we need this?

I wanna complain about something!

And this might be the first time I've seen Teardop post anything other than the comic lists

To be fair, Teardrop has been commenting on DC books in the Bought/Thought thread for about a month or so now.

Just don't complain about animal books!

Heard someone dissing on the Pet Avengers and I just couldn't let that passt:

To quote Charlie Brown, "The ultimate crime."

I'm so excited for it. I really want to see who the new Frog of Thunder is. I wonder if Lockheed's total betrayal of Shadowcat will come up, too.

Lockheed betrayed Kitty? When did that happen? I don't recall much of that from ASTONISHING X-MEN; granted, I may have been too busy saying it was overrated at the time. In retrospect while that 25 issue run was late as heck and not quite the be-all that some fans make it, I was probably too hard on it at the time.

One would imagine Lockheed would be sad without Kitty. It might have been interesting if he chose to hang around Colossus, so they could mourn and heal together. Of course, I guess Piotr getting a tattoo is SO much deeper.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Lockheed was a spy for SWORD, remember?

 

[stingerman]

Paul Jenkins New Writer on Son of Hulk confirmed:

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/news/skaar13news

 

[Tron Bonne]

Tell me, then, what audience is Marvel seriously hoping to get with PET AVENGERS other than the "folks who like funny animal video" audience? You could add of all Lockheed, Frog Thor and Lockjaw "fans" across the Internet and be lucky if they totaled the people who read ARCHIE, at $2.50, every month (which is about 4,000-5,000 people). "Comedy" books are usually the "kiss of death" sales wise, at least according to Robert Kirkman, and have been for some time. I still fail to see the point in releasing a series that has little chance of selling above the Top 85 at the start. I suppose Marvel MAX falls under that principle, as many of those titles sell so poorly, even at $4, that some wonders if Marvel sees any profit from them.

I'm not completely against Lockjaw; he was amusing in THE THING. The rest, though, why? Seriously, why? It's like MARVEL NOIR. Why do we need this?

I think we've already established that these books are made for people who enjoy these characters and like to read fun stand alone stuff and perhaps even young readers. Sure it probably won't see a lot but I don't care. Why do I need this? Because I want to read it. Like I want to read books like Iron Fist and Madame Xanadu, too other low books on the charts. That, and I'm sure it'll be as enjoyable as several of the other top chart books, at least to me. That doesn't count for anything I guess, my opinions is null and void apparently.

Sorry that I don't scrutinize on sells, sells, sells. How much it gonna sell? Sells, sells, sells. Who's it gonna sell to? Sells, sells, sells. Top What? Sells, sells, sells.

To be fair, Teardrop has been commenting on DC books in the Bought/Thought thread for about a month or so now.

Just don't complain about animal books!

Oh yes, Dread I mercilessly attacked your modest opinion as an Oni attacks an overweight nerd with taped glasses on the playground. It couldn't possibly be you pretty much called it the stupidest thing Marvel could put out (when Marvel is putting Hulk and Kick-Ass out!) and then after that you more or less looked down your nose at the entire possible audience as drunken idiots and then have yet to give a single good reason (outside sales, sales, sales and a debunk sense of relevency), why you have this apparent loathing of the project.

I'm sorry Dread, I was such the anatogonist.

To quote Charlie Brown, "The ultimate crime."

To quote Jay Sherman, "That Sirus...he's a virus."

It's either this or Dark Reign: Soup. Now that's a seller. It'll be 'relevant' to the mainstream universe to boot. Seriously, sure Marvel needs to trim the fat, DC for that matter, too, but these little niche titles are really a diamond in the rough for some. It's just a fun title with characters that are liked. Is this such a horrid thing even if it doesn't sell a lot? Can a small group of people not enjoy thier Marvel Adventures, Dr. Doom and the Masters Of Evils and their Pet Avengers?

Isn't what this medium is mostly about? Should a small group be left out in the cold just because our books aren't topping the charts or relevant to your standards? I mean we're all entitled to our own opinions, but seriously you've really went after this project pretty aggressively. I get where you're coming from, but come on, seriously, there are a lot of other books out there that deserve the hate a lot more

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Paul Jenkins New Writer on Son of Hulk confirmed:

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/news/skaar13news

Yeah. I don't know how to feel about that.

I mean, its not as if Jenkins can't write a good story, but he's been pretty inconsistent and I'm not cool with Pak leaving the book.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm a bit apprehensive about it, too. Jenkins has had some very high highs and some very low lows.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

So Pak is leaving Skaar to do...

what?

More War Machine?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He's gotta focus his whole mind on extreme violence and breaking long-standing character traits.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

He's gotta focus his whole mind on extreme violence and breaking long-standing character traits.

Well, he probably saw the sales figures for HULK and decided "hey, why not me too?"

 

[TheCorpulent1]

True. Ironically, War Machine's down around #50 on the top 100, though. I guess all mindlessly violent characters are not created equal.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Rhodey needs a Red War Machine to fight.

 

[Dread]

Lockheed was a spy for SWORD, remember?

For one adventure. I didn't think it was that big a deal. If Lockheed was supposed to be a spy for SWORD for longer, that is something. Granted, X-MEN LEGACY is retconning a little bit of Whedon's arc about Danger (fixing it so Xavier wasn't leaving Danger locked away deliberately on purpose because he was hopelessly evil and cruel, as Whedon suggested, but I think because he hadn't expected it to gain sentience and had no good alternative option), so who knows if anyone will remember stuff about Lockheed.

I only paid attention to Agent Brand and Beast.

Besides, do you REALLY think anything that deep will be mentioned about Lockheed in a story where he's teaming up with a frog with a hammer and a cat with energy balls to fight other monsters?

I think we've already established that these books are made for people who enjoy these characters and like to read fun stand alone stuff and perhaps even young readers. Sure it probably won't see a lot but I don't care. Why do I need this? Because I want to read it. Like I want to read books like Iron Fist and Madame Xanadu, too other low books on the charts. That, and I'm sure it'll be as enjoyable as several of the other top chart books, at least to me. That doesn't count for anything I guess, my opinions is null and void apparently.

Sorry that I don't scrutinize on sells, sells, sells. How much it gonna sell? Sells, sells, sells. Who's it gonna sell to? Sells, sells, sells. Top What? Sells, sells, sells.




Oh yes, Dread I mercilessly attacked your modest opinion as an Oni attacks an overweight nerd with taped glasses on the playground. It couldn't possibly be you pretty much called it the stupidest thing Marvel could put out (when Marvel is putting Hulk and Kick-Ass out!) and then after that you more or less looked down your nose at the entire possible audience as drunken idiots and then have yet to give a single good reason (outside sales, sales, sales and a debunk sense of relevency), why you have this apparent loathing of the project.

I'm sorry Dread, I was such the anatogonist.



To quote Jay Sherman, "That Sirus...he's a virus."

It's either this or Dark Reign: Soup. Now that's a seller. It'll be 'relevant' to the mainstream universe to boot. Seriously, sure Marvel needs to trim the fat, DC for that matter, too, but these little niche titles are really a diamond in the rough for some. It's just a fun title with characters that are liked. Is this such a horrid thing even if it doesn't sell a lot? Can a small group of people not enjoy thier Marvel Adventures, Dr. Doom and the Masters Of Evils and their Pet Avengers?

Isn't what this medium is mostly about? Should a small group be left out in the cold just because our books aren't topping the charts or relevant to your standards? I mean we're all entitled to our own opinions, but seriously you've really went after this project pretty aggressively. I get where you're coming from, but come on, seriously, there are a lot of other books out there that deserve the hate a lot more

Not going into all this in detail because I really would rather drop it. No, PET AVENGERS isn't the stupidest thing Marvel could or has been publishing. I even agreed with you about KICK-ASS, and made a show of dropping it. I suppose it seems the consensus is that I was terribly unfair and heavy handed on the poor funny animal book when there are far more books that deserve scorn. Granted, last time I went into a rant about ULTIMATE WOLVERINE VS. HULK, which frankly represents far worse about Marvel than PET AVENGERS (their gullibility for "Hollywood talent", having so much contempt for the readership not even to publish an apology for a three year delay, etc.), people got irritated as well. Can't please everyone. I was half joking about your wrath in that last post. I should have attached the universal seal of humor, the random smiley.

Animal comics I guess are a nerve for me. I haven't read one that wasn't abysmally stupid, and I doubt I ever will. It's a niche in comics I don't care for. Marvel more than DC at this point is churning out more books than the market can support, but maybe that's too big an issue for PET AVENGERS. I selected it as a microcosm, but I guess if I had complained as much about MARVEL DIVAS, which I thought I did, things wouldn't have gotten as testy. Maybe I took it too far.

Whatever. Done talking about PET AVENGERS now. I'd almost bet money no one will discuss the book as much when it actually is released as much as we have argued about it now. I mean, no one talks about POWER PACK.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Not going into all this in detail because I really would rather drop it. No, PET AVENGERS isn't the stupidest thing Marvel could or has been publishing. I even agreed with you about KICK-ASS, and made a show of dropping it. I suppose it seems the consensus is that I was terribly unfair and heavy handed on the poor funny animal book when there are far more books that deserve scorn. Granted, last time I went into a rant about ULTIMATE WOLVERINE VS. HULK, which frankly represents far worse about Marvel than PET AVENGERS (their gullibility for "Hollywood talent", having so much contempt for the readership not even to publish an apology for a three year delay, etc.), people got irritated as well. Can't please everyone. I was half joking about your wrath in that last post. I should have attached the universal seal of humor, the random smiley.

Animal comics I guess are a nerve for me. I haven't read one that wasn't abysmally stupid, and I doubt I ever will. It's a niche in comics I don't care for. Marvel more than DC at this point is churning out more books than the market can support, but maybe that's too big an issue for PET AVENGERS. I selected it as a microcosm, but I guess if I had complained as much about MARVEL DIVAS, which I thought I did, things wouldn't have gotten as testy. Maybe I took it too far.

Whatever. Done talking about PET AVENGERS now. I'd almost bet money no one will discuss the book as much when it actually is released as much as we have argued about it now. I mean, no one talks about POWER PACK.

I realized you were joking, but I think you were a little semi-serious in the sense you thought I was jumping all over you just because you disliked the idea. I really only went at you when you tried to lump everyone who does like the idea into people who laugh at monkeys just because there monkeys or whatever you were trying to say. You were essentially saying the same that the only people who are going be to be checking out Power Pack are pedophiles who will just want to read stuff with young kids in it. That was pretty much asking for an argument.

And, yeah, I would say that you went pretty heavy-handed at it, but the main reason why me and others really got on your case was that you had no real reason to hate the book so much. I suspected, and you more or less just confirmed this, is that you just thought the idea was dumb.

I know you go off on rants a lot for others, but most of the time I either am impartial to it (Ultimate Hulk Vs Wolverine) or know nothing about it (Marvel Divas) or agree with you (Event over saturation), but I just thought you were being a little too, what's the word, silly(?) in your persecution of poor Lockjaw and his Pet Avengers

And, to finish, the whole point of these boards is discussion and debate. So, I don't see a problem with disagreements and arguments happening pretty frequently here, as long as their civil

 

[Dread]

Fair enough.

The POWER PACK books are there to appeal to kids. Quite honestly, and I am in a very small minority, I think the POWER PACK could be a decent property for Marvel to expand upon if they were inclined to. They seem tailor made for network TV. They're a team of super-powered siblings, with the oldest barely in high school (at least in the MA series, and in the 80's 616 stuff). They have super-powers, bright colors, and alien characters who look like animals (horses and lizards). They bicker with each other almost as much as with villains, being siblings. While I am not saying they are trite, what I am saying is the Pack can be both serious and goofy. I fail to see why this isn't a cartoon somewhere. They could even attach Franklin Richards to the team, much as DC made sure to feature Superman and Robin on LEGION OF SUPERHEROES and TEEN TITANS, respectively. You'd think with Marvel getting so much mileage out of the Richards family, that they wouldn't abandon the Pack just because they got older in the 90's. But, such is life.

I'm all for gearing books for children; my question is whether they are marketed properly. Even DC is willing to keep their "kiddie books" a little cheaper on the cover price, and they've been getting creamed in overall sales for two years now.

 

[Themanofbat]

I like Niels...

 

[Mr. M]

So, I saw only one preview and jumped here. Dark X-Men! Not because it's Dark X-Men, but because of Cloak and Dagger! It's about friggin' time! I've wanted them on a team again since Marvel Knights Vol. 1 This makes me very happy. Even if they're on the wrong side. Dagger on the cover doesn't look too happy about it so maybe that's their checks and balance system. She can be like Kitty was on Astonoshing. Does anyone know if after "the beginning" if this will continue on as a series?