Mass shooting at Naval Yard in Washington DC

[Destructus86]

So, this is just more proof that our mental health system...or lack of...is a complete FAIL.

They knew he had mental issues and he still had access to the base apparently

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There are reports that he was paranoid and heard voices.

Sounds more like schizophrenia than PTSD.

 

[Ant-manic]

just to throw it out there...couldn't it just be malingering? he seems like a violent guy; from his history. i could imagine someone like that playing the PTSD and/or "i hear voices" card in case that they'd one-day need it. i doubt that he planned to be shot. i'm just thinking that arrogance (and malignant narcissism) plays a part in a number of mass shootings. the shootings seem random until you consider that it's his place of employment.

 

[Teelie]

PTSD can include hearing voices as well but I still don't know enough about his history to start speculating on his causes. I've also known plenty of narcissitic, arrogant and egotistical people but none of them ever struck me as the type to shoot up a place.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

The base seems to be more of an administrative and ceremonial center.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Yard

If that is correct then the a**hole(s) that did this most likely chose it as a "soft" target that would have less security.

Edit:
Or perhaps not, after reading some more about this.

 

[Spider-X]

so...correct me if I'm wrong here...but the guy who went on this killing spree was not only hearing voices...but he bought his shotgun legally just a few days prior to his rampage.

If so, then it looks like my "knee jerk reaction" on the first page of this thread actually fits this situation like a glove. Not that it means I was correct in making the assumption...but this is truly abhorrent and rightfully gives further credence to the clear need for tougher gun control laws.

 

[Figs]

I love how the media is saying he had some kind of an assault rifle when it was really a shotgun. Got to love their methods of trying to get certain guns banned.

 

[Spider-X]

I love how everyone who requests or makes the case for tougher gun control is seen as "trying to get all guns banned."

While I greatly dislike guns, I understand that an all out ban on them is not realistic. But restrictions like ones that would reduce the amount of crazy people getting guns and going on rampages would certainly help.

You'll never be able to completely whip out this sort of crime...but you can greatly reduce them or at least make it harder, which gives the greater potential for them to be stopped before it comes full bore.

We also need an emphasis on greater mental health awareness/assistance...and a nationwide emphasis on education would help to...because all these people who only see things in black and white and completely ignoring the MASSIVE grey area in sooo many things is upsetting.

 

[regwec]

I see that Starbucks has politely asked its customers not to bring guns into its outlets.

Don't understand what kind of frightened weirdo feels the need to carry a gun while ordering a latte.

 

[Spider-X]

I see that Starbucks has politely asked its customers not to bring guns into its outlets.

Don't understand what kind of frightened weirdo feels the need to carry a gun while ordering a latte.

That's what I like in the morning...being in line with grumpy/tired people with caffeine addictions trying to get their morning fix while strapped with their semi-automatics and pistols...just gives you that warm and fuzzy "I feel so safe right now" feeling...

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I see that Starbucks has politely asked its customers not to bring guns into its outlets.

Don't understand what kind of frightened weirdo feels the need to carry a gun while ordering a latte.

Looks like the gun lovers will be using the Starbucks drive thru.

 

[Teelie]

so...correct me if I'm wrong here...but the guy who went on this killing spree was not only hearing voices...but he bought his shotgun legally just a few days prior to his rampage.

If so, then it looks like my "knee jerk reaction" on the first page of this thread actually fits this situation like a glove. Not that it means I was correct in making the assumption...but this is truly abhorrent and rightfully gives further credence to the clear need for tougher gun control laws.

Knee-jerk reactions are never the right answer and they rarely help the situation.

Gun control laws do need to be completely wiped out and rewritten from scratch starting with what is and is not considered an acceptable weapon for home defense, hunting, target practice and going to literal war with your neighbors. Obviously anything that includes the words "full auto" is excessive in most situations but I'm sure gun nuts enthusiasts will insist there is some valid reason to fill a target with 30 holes in under 3 seconds that doesn't make the average person roll their eyes in disbelief.

Then it needs to be narrowed to those who can properly handle their weapon, are not felons (especially those with a violent history), can pass a mental health exam and are capable of storing them in a way there won't be children or immature adults getting ahold of them.

And lastly, there needs to be severe repercussions for violating the ownership laws of gun possession.

Of course most of that is never going to happen. Ever. With the NRA being run by gun manufacturers and lobbying any significant changes into the ground anyways.

 

[Cosmic]

Check out this bombshell:

Navy ignored warning last month about shooter

From USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/18/navy-yard-shooting-aaron-alexis/2832451/

WASHINGTON — Officials at the Navy base in Newport, R.I., failed to notify authorities about a report from local police last month that Monday's killer of 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard had complained about hearing voices coming from the ceiling of his hotel, a Pentagon official told USA TODAY.

Aaron Alexis, 34, was questioned by Newport police on Aug. 7 at a local hotel room. Alexis, a Navy civilian contractor, told officers that unknown people were trying to prevent him from sleeping and sending "vibrations" through his body. Newport police then contacted base security to alert them about Alexis.

"There is no indication that the information went beyond the naval security force (at base)," the official said, adding that more details could emerge as the investigation continues. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

The Naval Station Newport authorities did not contact Alexis' employer — a Fort Lauderdale-based information technology firm called The Experts — or other Navy authorities, the official said.

Somehow, given all the other information that's coming out about this...I'm not surprised. I was just about to post and ask how it was that his military chain of command somehow never picked up on his mental health issues. I just find it extremely sad and disheartening.

 

[Teelie]

That's another failure of the military and government to acknowledge and handle the mental health issues of their employees.

 

[bullets]

I see that Starbucks has politely asked its customers not to bring guns into its outlets.

Don't understand what kind of frightened weirdo feels the need to carry a gun while ordering a latte.

Guns and Starbucks , those are two words that don't belong in the same sentence.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Ya this guy definitely suffered from Schizophrenia. As a person that suffers from schizophrenia myself I know exactly what he was going through thank god I was able to seek help and receive treatment before I did anything drastic. Seems very sad to me that he could complain about hearing voices and not sleeping (all classic signs of schizo-affective disorder) and not get any help. Being a Navy vet myself the first place I turned to was the VA.

When the voices are talking to you it seems very real like your talking with god or angels or are psychic. The more sleep I didn't get the worse it got. Luckily for me my voices didn't have me scared of other people in a sense that I wanted to hurt anybody I was just sure that everyone knew what was going on my head.

When I checked in to the VA I was immediately put under supervisation and given Ripserdal a powerful anti-psychotic that hinders dopamine and serotonin in the brain. An overload of these are what most doctors believe cause the disorder.

I can tell you one thing, I will never purchase or own a gun and I don't think anyone treated for this kind of disorder should be allowed to either. I believe that once these symptoms are reported you should be on a government blacklist for life regardless of if you are or are not on your meds.

 

[Ghostvirus]

I am done having sympathy for these American idiots that keep insisting guns be in everyone's home.

We as Americans deserve this. We continue to deserve this until things change.

 

[Victarion]

No one deserves it.

 

[Ant-manic]

PTSD can include hearing voices as well but I still don't know enough about his history to start speculating on his causes. I've also known plenty of narcissitic, arrogant and egotistical people but none of them ever struck me as the type to shoot up a place.

almost everyone shares these traits. anyone can be self-centered or act entitled. what i was refering to are people for whom this is a pattern of behavior/a personality disorder. guys like the Una-Bomber and Charles Manson have all been diagnosed as malignant narcissists. they saw themselves as unfairly burdened by society's restrictions. when they become enraged, they often want to act out in a way that draws massive amounts of attention. that desire is born out of self-importance.

doesn't mean that's what happened with this current guy. he might have PTSD, like you said. i was just throwing it out there that maybe he was faking it. people have sympathy for people who are suffering from trauma. doesn't work that way if you're just an arrogant overly-entitled jerk.

 

[Teelie]

I am done having sympathy for these American idiots that keep insisting guns be in everyone's home.

We as Americans deserve this. We continue to deserve this until things change.

It's fine to have sympathy for the man, it doesn't mean anyone is condoning or accepting what he did though. He's as much a victim of society's distrust and discouragement of mental health treatment as everyone else who was killed or injured. Had his condition been taken seriously (as it turns out, he'd been reported about already), had he been taken to a hospital or at the very least put on some kind of medication (which is still seen as a sign of weakness), this might never have happened. Had his ability to not purchase a gun because of his schizophrenic tendencies been at all enforced it probably would not have happened.

Instead we have this situation which already has gone off the rails into a seperate debate.

Change doesn't happen over night easily either. And when it does, it's rarely been good overall in the long run. There's always a massive upheavel of unknown waves that affect other things. What makes sense now and is done in the heat of a reaction can have long unforseen circumstances. All you have to do these days is use the words 9/11, terrorism and loss of freedom to see the results.

No one deserves this. It's really not fair to say someone who was literally crazy deserves to be treated as if they were sane and aware of what they did any more than it is to say those who were killed deserved it.

Few people are truly stone cold killers who do it without remorse. Those who do are an entirely seperate catagory though.

 

[regwec]

I really wouldn't equate modest and pragmatic gun control with the PATRIOT Act.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Why should a person who is suddenly diagnosed with schizophrenia be forced to hand over all his guns but a militant white supremacist or Muslim extremist can keep all of theirs?

Are the latter two any less dangerous than the former?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Also sociopaths, they're far more dangerous than schizophrenics.

 

[Teelie]

I really wouldn't equate modest and pragmatic gun control with the PATRIOT Act.

And that's where you completely miss the point. You see it as modest and pragmatic but those who are on the opposite end see it as the government taking away their rights and guns. How many of them do you think will just sit there and take that sitting down? And how many do you think will believe it's time for a revolution and try to form a militia or start a new civil war?

Why should a person who is suddenly diagnosed with schizophrenia be forced to hand over all his guns but a militant white supremacist or Muslim extremist can keep all of theirs?

Are the latter two any less dangerous than the former?

Also sociopaths, they're far more dangerous than schizophrenics.

Actually that's two seperate things. Sociopaths would fall under mental illness just like shizophrenics and be denied a right. That's a nonsense defense.

People who are militant would probably fall under the clause of violence-prone and be denied if that could be legally and agreeably defined. Although even if it wasn't they would still have the right to keep their weapons provided they could prove there was no intent to kill other human beings.

But let's be realistic. How many militants of any shade are legally purchasing their weapons from a licensed gun shop? Probably not too many. What with sales being recorded, their names put on an official registery and their distrust of the government.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

And that's where you completely miss the point. You see it as modest and pragmatic but those who are on the opposite end see it as the government taking away their rights and guns. How many of them do you think will just sit there and take that sitting down? And how many do you think will believe it's time for a revolution and try to form a militia or start a new civil war?


Actually that's two seperate things. Sociopaths would fall under mental illness just like shizophrenics and be denied a right. That's a nonsense defense.

People who are militant would probably fall under the clause of violence-prone and be denied if that could be legally and agreeably defined. Although even if it wasn't they would still have the right to keep their weapons provided they could prove there was no intent to kill other human beings.

But let's be realistic. How many militants of any shade are legally purchasing their weapons from a licensed gun shop? Probably not too many. What with sales being recorded, their names put on an official registery and their distrust of the government.

They can now determine who's a sociopath with a brain scan.

Shouldn't we just require brain scans to ban those people from guns?

Right now any sociopath with a non-violent history can own a gun. But being schizophrenic automatically means a lifetime ban from guns regardless of past history. Why the double standard?