Michael Gough's best performance

[Kevin Roegele]

Was in which movie?

 

[Deaths Head II]

I'll say Batman & Robin, as unpopular a choice as that may be. For some reason the writers gave him the few decent lines in the film.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I'll say Batman & Robin, as unpopular a choice as that may be. For some reason the writers gave him the few decent lines in the film.

Yeah, he had a bigger role in B&R. He was Barbara's uncle, and he almost died.

 

[Catman]

Yeah, he had a bigger role in B&R. He was Barbara's uncle, and he almost died.

Gough was great in all four movies. In B&R his storyline was like the only serious part of the movie. HOWEVER...I liked him best in B89 because he was the voice of reason. In that movie he was the one constantly reminding Bruce to live a normal life.

 

[Mr. LOL]

I guess Batman and Robin, but even then he still wasn't the Alfred of the comics. He didn't play near as vital of a role as he does in the source material in any of the movies prior to BEGINS. Although I doubt Gough could pull off the exact replica of the Alfred from the comics that Michael Cain brings to the table. There ws no humor, no heart ache, just stiff and wooden. Michael Gough was really just a card board standee apart from his role in Batman and Robin.

 

[Mr. LOL]

Gough was great in all four movies. In B&R his storyline was like the only serious part of the movie. HOWEVER...I liked him best in B89 because he was the voice of reason. In that movie he was the one constantly reminding Bruce to live a normal life.

He did so however in a very boring manner, thus not being like Alfred of the source. Alfred brings levity to the absurdity of the entire situation Bruce is in, and while he jokes with him, he's still sending Bruce a message. Not to mention Gough just didn't seem like he had enough heart in his performance to seem like he actually cared. We got no prior context of the surrogate father that Alfred is to Bruce. I don't know, I never really bought into the Keaton / Gough, Kilmer / Gough, Clooney / Gough chemistry. The chemistry that ultimately is a HUGE strength between Bale and Caine.

 

[El Payaso]

He did so however in a very boring manner, thus not being like Alfred of the source. Alfred brings levity to the absurdity of the entire situation Bruce is in, and while he jokes with him, he's still sending Bruce a message. Not to mention Gough just didn't seem like he had enough heart in his performance to seem like he actually cared. We got no prior context of the surrogate father that Alfred is to Bruce. I don't know, I never really bought into the Keaton / Gough, Kilmer / Gough, Clooney / Gough chemistry. The chemistry that ultimately is a HUGE strength between Bale and Caine.

*headache*

 

[The Sage]

He did so however in a very boring manner, thus not being like Alfred of the source. Alfred brings levity to the absurdity of the entire situation Bruce is in, and while he jokes with him, he's still sending Bruce a message. Not to mention Gough just didn't seem like he had enough heart in his performance to seem like he actually cared. We got no prior context of the surrogate father that Alfred is to Bruce. I don't know, I never really bought into the Keaton / Gough, Kilmer / Gough, Clooney / Gough chemistry. The chemistry that ultimately is a HUGE strength between Bale and Caine.

Well there are the flashback scenes in B & R that hint at the surrogate father relationship, but that's not the only strength of Alfred. He's also Bruce's greatest confidant and his number one friend, giving advice on Bruce's mission, as well as his own thoughts. Alfred was also quite active, helping Batman stop Penguin's plans. The previous movies showcased some of Alfred's hidden talents. In certain continuities, Alfred was formerly an intelligence agent in England. His computer skills in the Batcave were probably a result of that.

Gough's Alfred had some of the best lines in any interpretation of Alfred.

B89 -

Bruce: What's on your mind, Alfred?
Alfred: I have no wish to fill my few remaining years grieving for the loss of old friends. Or their sons.

Batman Forever
"Broken wings mend in time. One day Robin will fly again. I promise."
"Young men with a mind for revenge need little encouragement. They need guidance. You above all should know the consequences of the life you choose."

 

[Mr. LOL]

Well there are the flashback scenes in B & R that hint at the surrogate father relationship

That's why I said B and R was his best performance. Although it still was touch and go, and the relationship was mainly an after thought up until this movie.

but that's not the only strength of Alfred.

You're acting like I don't realize, or already know this. However for the most part, that is his main purpose within the mythos. You do understand that, right?

He's also Bruce's greatest confidant and his number one friend, giving advice on Bruce's mission, as well as his own thoughts.

I know this and I also mentioned most of that.

Alfred was also quite active, helping Batman stop Penguin's plans.

Meh, that's not being "quite active" ... that is one moment and one situation. And all he did was put on a set of head phones.

It wasn't like he swacked a ninja terrorist with a golf club, or took blood samples of a knocked out and poisioned Bruce. I saw no heart felt motivational lines to help pick Bruce back up off his feet. Not to mention all the other instances of being active in regards to defending the honor of the family's good name, etc.

Alfred in BEGINS was far more active than he was in all four movies combined.

The previous movies showcased some of Alfred's hidden talents. In certain continuities, Alfred was formerly an intelligence agent in England. His computer skills in the Batcave were probably a result of that.

What computer skills did you see? We didn't see any of that at all really. And that's a massive assumption he's a former intelligence agent from what we saw in the original films. He says he worked at Buckingham palace, but we never get any other reference beyond that.

Gough's Alfred had some of the best lines in any interpretation of Alfred.

There was some good lines in there. However, they weren't delivered in a way that were inspirational in any sort of way. They didn't come close to the impact Caine's Alfred made on not only Bruce, but the audience as well. You could visually see that this man cared for what Bruce was doing with his life. And it felt like a stronger connection because we got way better back story and prelude to their current relationship.

I still really don't get the point of this thread? Is it to get people to admit that Batman and Robin had at least one aspect done better than any of the other movies prior? Gough was consistently wooden and delegated to a minute role all through out the first three films. The only one where he truly got to show any range was in Batman and Robin. And even then, it still wasn't like a great or even good performance. It was mediocre at best.

 

[The Joker]

Meh, that's not being "quite active" ... that is one moment and one situation. And all he did was put on a set of head phones.

Twice actually. He also helped sabatoge The Penguin's public speech. And helping Batman save Gotham from being blown up is quite active, too.

It wasn't like he swacked a ninja terrorist with a golf club

That's only because the war was brought to Wayne Manor.

or took blood samples of a knocked out and poisioned Bruce.

Lucius Fox did that. Alfred said he called him after Bruce got worse. Lucius was the one who took the blood, analyzed it, and made the antidote.

Alfred in BEGINS was far more active than he was in all four movies combined.

In your opinion, of course. Personally, I thought Gough's Alfred was fantastic.

 

[The Joker]

He did so however in a very boring manner, thus not being like Alfred of the source.

Oh yeah, the dry wit, the warm moments with Bruce and Dick, aiding him in the batcave etc.

How very unlike Alfred.

Alfred brings levity to the absurdity of the entire situation Bruce is in, and while he jokes with him, he's still sending Bruce a message.

You mean like telling him to tell Vicki the truth, or giving advice about how to handle Dick Grayson, or questioning him as to why he so determined to prove the Penguin is not what he seems etc??

Not to mention Gough just didn't seem like he had enough heart in his performance to seem like he actually cared.

I disagree.

We got no prior context of the surrogate father that Alfred is to Bruce.

We did in B and R.

I don't know, I never really bought into the Keaton / Gough, Kilmer / Gough, Clooney / Gough chemistry.

Your loss then.

 

[Mr. LOL]

Twice actually. He also helped sabatoge The Penguin's public speech. And helping Batman save Gotham from being blown up is quite active, too.

Ummm, ok ... that's active, but not "quite active." The reasons I gave as to the many instances Alfred is active in ONE movie aren't, however? You even go to the ridiculous extent saying that beating someone down with a golf club doesn't count because "the war was brought to Wayne Manor" ... wtf? So what Alfred does didn't count because Penguin brought the penguins to Gotham Plaza, or had a speech? That makes no sense. So Alfred wasn't active in Returns by simply putting on a head set, or reading off cordinates to Batman on where the Penguins are. Batman told him what to do.

That's only because the war was brought to Wayne Manor.

Oh, so that doesn't count?

Lucius Fox did that. Alfred said he called him after Bruce got worse. Lucius was the one who took the blood, analyzed it, and made the antidote.

Nope, Alfred took the samples and gave them to Lucious. That's why Batman in the car ... AFTER ALFRED PICKS HIM UP ON BATTLE GROUNDS ... Bruce says "Take blood, blood poisioned, blood poison." And we actually see a teary eyed Alfred, because he is so frightened with what happened to a child he has basically raised as his own, gets emotionally upset. Alfred is the one that gets Bruce to saftey, and then helps Lucious to get the antidote.

That isn't being active? Protecting Rachel, and making sure she gets the antidote? Yeah, he didn't do any of that or anything.

In your opinion, of course.

Did I have to say that? If I'm saying it, it's my opinion.

Personally, I thought Gough's Alfred was fantastic.

That's nice. I thought it was all right. But in comparison to Michael Caine's potrayl, it doesn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

 

[ChocheTheHero]

Anything to say?


...N E V A H !

 

[The Sage]

That's why I said B and R was his best performance. Although it still was touch and go, and the relationship was mainly an after thought up until this movie.

Oh ok.

You're acting like I don't realize, or already know this. However for the most part, that is his main purpose within the mythos. You do understand that, right?

Actually Alfred's main purpose is to act as Bruce's number one confidant and adviser.

I know this and I also mentioned most of that.

Meh, that's not being "quite active" ... that is one moment and one situation. And all he did was put on a set of head phones.

It wasn't like he swacked a ninja terrorist with a golf club, or took blood samples of a knocked out and poisioned Bruce. I saw no heart felt motivational lines to help pick Bruce back up off his feet. Not to mention all the other instances of being active in regards to defending the honor of the family's good name, etc.

He ddn't whack a ninja terrorist with a golf club, nor did he take samples from a poisoned Bruce. But he did in two instances, help Bruce defeat the Penguin, first by ruining his campaign for mayor, second by thwarting his plans to blow up Gotham. In Batman Forever, he assisted Bruce in solving Nygma's riddles, created Robin's costume, bandaged up Bruce in two instances, and offered advice. This Alfred didn't need to defend the family name, as the Bruce Wayne of those movies never did anything that would've threatened to disgrace it.

Gough's Alfred didn't need to give Bruce motivational lines to get back up and continue. He gave Bruce wise words to think about, from him telling Bruce that he didn't wanna spend the rest of his life grieving over the Waynes or possibly Bruce if he died, to telling Bruce that Dick Grayson is simply following the same path he took.

Gough's Alfred fulfilled the functions and duties that Alfred are supposed to.

Alfred in BEGINS was far more active than he was in all four movies combined.

Completely disagree, especially in the second and fourth films.

What computer skills did you see? We didn't see any of that at all really. And that's a massive assumption he's a former intelligence agent from what we saw in the original films. He says he worked at Buckingham palace, but we never get any other reference beyond that.

What computer skills? Let's see...him hacking the Penguin's frequencies in Batman Returns in two cases. In Batman & Robin, programming his brain algorithms into the main computer. That's not exactly common knowledge.

I thought it was a nod to his past. They didn't need to mention it. Do they mention in Batman Begins that Alfred served in the British military? Of course not, but you can sorta get that impression if he did.

There was some good lines in there. However, they weren't delivered in a way that were inspirational in any sort of way.

Look at the lines I posted. They're not meant to be inspirational; their purpose is to give Bruce something to contemplate. Not everything Alfred says is inspirational.

They didn't come close to the impact Caine's Alfred made on not only Bruce, but the audience as well. You could visually see that this man cared for what Bruce was doing with his life.

And I got the same impression in the previous movies. From the lines that hinted he wanted Bruce to try to have a relationship with Vicky Vale, to him saying he loved looking after heroes, you could tell Alfred cared for Bruce and what he was doing. The scene in B&R when Alfred was in his sick bed and Bruce told him he loved him, that scene was powerful.

And it felt like a stronger connection because we got way better back story and prelude to their current relationship.

You don't always need a backstory to understand a relationship if you can feel the emotions that are there already. Sometimes you can look at a couple and tell that they love each other.

I still really don't get the point of this thread? Is it to get people to admit that Batman and Robin had at least one aspect done better than any of the other movies prior? Gough was consistently wooden and delegated to a minute role all through out the first three films. The only one where he truly got to show any range was in Batman and Robin. And even then, it still wasn't like a great or even good performance. It was mediocre at best.

The point of the thread is to ask what was Gough's best performance in the previous films.

Gough was never wooden to me.

I personally think Gough and Caine did great jobs in personifying the character and I don't like one better than the other. I don't understand the need to tear down Gough to elevate Caine.

 

[K.B.]

Gough was tied in 89 and BR and I loved him as Al.

I hated Caines Alfred as he came off to jokey and it was just Michael Cain playing himself ratehr than playing Alfred which is a shame as he could have been great.

 

[CFE]

I don't wish to get into this, but I will say that after reading through this thread, it seems Mr. LOL is determined to use a s**tload of fluff in his posts to make it sound like he has something insightful to say about the Batman films. Almost like Darkest Knight, though not as arrogant.

I swear, if one more person comes on here trying to use smarmy phrases like "mediocre at best" to sound intelligent in their denouncing of the previous films in favor of the highly-entertaining-though-arguably-and-hideously-overrated "Batman Begins," I'm gonna go out of my f**king skull...

As for performance, yes Gough's best is in "B&R"

1: B&R
2: B89
3: BF
4: BR

CFE

 

[Cassandra]

I think he was always very good. To me Michael Gough just IS Alfred Pennyworth. He was the first version of Alfred I was introduced to, and I still love his performences in each movie.

One stand out Alfred scene for me is in B89 when he tells Bruce that he doesn't want to spend his remaining years mourning for the loss of old friends "or their son". I thought that was a powerful moment and a nice look at the Alfred-Bruce relationship.

 

[Two-Face]

I think he was always very good. To me Michael Gough just IS Alfred Pennyworth. He was the first version of Alfred I was introduced to, and I still love his performences in each movie.

One stand out Alfred scene for me is in B89 when he tells Bruce that he doesn't want to spend his remaining years mourning for the loss of old friends "or their son". I thought that was a powerful moment and a nice look at the Alfred-Bruce relationship.

I agree with you.

 

[Cain]

I say B&R some of his scenes in that film I found to be very touching fdue to how great his performance was. He completely sold those scenes despite the absurdity surrounding the rest of the film.

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

Batman.

 

[Rockbottom]

I saw no heart felt motivational lines to help pick Bruce back up off his feet.

Well Keaton's Batman didn't need picking back up, that guy was such a badass that if he fell he got straight back up and carried on until the mission was complete. The plane crash near the end of 89 is the best example of this i can think of off the top of my head.

EDIT: I like Michael Caine as much as the next guy but this is Micheal Gough's thread but Caine's, make a Gough vs Caine for that debate. And yes i know i just added to the debate

 

[Riven]

Batman Returns, if only for that line where he claims that a dirty limerick "has just popped to mind"... t:

 

[Mr. LOL]

Well Keaton's Batman didn't need picking back up, that guy was such a badass that if he fell he got straight back up and carried on until the mission was complete. The plane crash near the end of 89 is the best example of this i can think of off the top of my head.

Hold on, are you saying that being picked up makes either of these two versions of the character weaker? If anything, it makes one much more real and relatable.

Let's not get intot he physicality of Keaton's Batman v.s. Bale's Batman. B/c I do distinctly remember Keaton's Batman getting his ass handed to him by Ray Charles.

We're not talking about having to be physically picked up. Bale's Bruce / Batman had that on LOCK DOWN. Bale's Batman period was much more physical, and he dealed with a bit more punishment. He literally gets stabbed by Ra's Al Ghul's sword ... and he's so concerned with failing his father's legacy, he doesn't even notice a huge wound dripping blood through his tuxedo. Instead he begins to feel he has failed his father's ghost, no matter what he's done up until that point which has been successful. That's called heart and emotional resonance. Yes, even Bruce / Batman needs to be picked up at times. And Alfred's purpose, like in the comics, is to provide emotional support to a person that is fairly dettatched at times from humanity and/or feelings. That was real. And it made you cheer when you see Bruce shake it off and attempt to single handedly save a city, as he blasts on the scene in the narrows, when no one else can help oppose the evil forced threatning Gotham City.

Let's also not forget that Keaton's Batman / Bruce Wayne is damn near 40 years old, and Bale's Batman / Bruce Wayne is in his late twenties, and is a rookie just starting out.

 

[El Payaso]

Gough was tied in 89 and BR and I loved him as Al.

I hated Caines Alfred as he came off to jokey and it was just Michael Cain playing himself ratehr than playing Alfred which is a shame as he could have been great.

That was Michael Caine as Michael Caine. Sure the man is quite likeable. But that's it.

 

[Bat Attack]

I thought he was great in all 4 films, but I really thought he was especially great in Batman & Robin and Batman '89.