Negativity towards the DC films?

[shauner111]

Like 20 times because people don't...listen.

 

[The Joker]

I'm curious how many times you've had to repost that since March 26th, haha.

How many times can you count your fingers?

 

[CaptainWagner]

It doesn't matter how many times it gets posted, it's still not relevant, because Returns was financially and critically successful, proving a killer Batman can make money just fine.

 

[The Joker]

Yes it is relevant. Spider-Man 3 was financially and critically successful. Does that mean they should have more characterization of emo haired Peter doing dance numbers down the street and in Jazz clubs in the MCU?

The issue of Batman being a killer was very much a problem back then, just not a huge enough one to make the movies fail by itself. Same with BvS. It didn't fail solely or mainly because Batman was a killer. But make no mistake, that doesn't make it irrelevant to the problems with the movie. It always garners a backlash from the fans. In Returns case it was part of the reason why the franchise went camp afterward.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Yes it is relevant. Spider-Man 3 was financially and critically successful. Does that mean they should have more characterization of emo haired Peter doing dance numbers down the street and in Jazz clubs in the MCU?

The issue of Batman being a killer was very much a problem back then, just not a huge enough one to make the movies fail by itself. Same with BvS. It didn't fail solely or mainly because Batman was a killer. But make no mistake, that doesn't make it irrelevant to the problems with the movie. It's always garners a backlash from the fans. In Returns case it was part of the reason why the franchise went camp afterward.

One thing that a lot of fans forget is that Batman Forever did better at the box office than Batman Returns. So for the short term, it was the right choice.

 

[Erzengel]

Or that X: TLS was the #1 grossing domestic X-Men movie until this year.

 

[The Batman]

There were so many complaints over Batman Returns that WB dumped Burton and went completely in the opposite direction tone-wise for the sequel.

And they did this despite the fact that Burton gave them one of their biggest hits with the first Batman film.

Yet, Snyder makes two polarizing, underperforming films, and gets to stay due to poor planning. Go figure.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yes it is relevant. Spider-Man 3 was financially and critically successful. Does that mean they should have more characterization of emo haired Peter doing dance numbers down the street and in Jazz clubs in the MCU?

The issue of Batman being a killer was very much a problem back then, just not a huge enough one to make the movies fail by itself. Same with BvS. It didn't fail solely or mainly because Batman was a killer. But make no mistake, that doesn't make it irrelevant to the problems with the movie. It always garners a backlash from the fans. In Returns case it was part of the reason why the franchise went camp afterward.

My point is that deviations from the source don't affect box office. The quality of the movie does. It doesn't mean all of those changes are good, but they aren't why BvS failed.

 

[Flint Marko]

And they did this despite the fact that Burton gave them one of their biggest hits with the first Batman film.

Yet, Snyder makes two polarizing, underperforming films, and gets to stay due to poor planning. Go figure.

It really is dumbfounding how much faith they had in Snyder.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It's like they themselves took a sip of the cool aid they were feeding the fanboys.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

My point is that deviations from the source don't affect box office. The quality of the movie does. It doesn't mean all of those changes are good, but they aren't why BvS failed.

I do agree that there are much larger problems with the movie than lack of faithfulness. Even if the comics were like the film, it would still suck on its on merits and that's why it truly failed.

 

[shauner111]

The biggest reason why it flopped was because its a messy edit, with a constant serious tone which you can't take seriously when there's bad performances and plot holes in every second scene. It feels long because of the time and lack of flow. And we do live in a time where people want to be entertained more than that at the movies, especially with Marvel delivering the blockbuster goods. It's also a brand new Batman, so people weren't sure of it. The first impression is that he's pretty badass but he comes off one dimensional, inside a messy movie that also includes a very dull Superman.

 

[Rowsdower!]

BvS being so disjointed is perhaps the greatest of the movie's sins. I mean, it's one thing if you have some bad characterization, performances, story beats, etc. But the movie felt like it was thrown together in a weekend by someone who had never edited anything in his life. It kind of reminded me of CATMAN IN LETHAL TRACK, in the way it seemed like two movies that almost had nothing to do with each other and barely connect are spliced together for some reason. It showed Snyder's overall incompetence as a filmmaker on so many levels. Up until this point, people have criticized him for being all style and now substance, but BvS proved he has no style either.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Batman Returns made the money it did off the back of Batman (1989), people were expecting another similar film, (as where WB) but given more freedom, Returns is what Burton gave us.

Whether Batman is a 'killer' or not in either film is not the reason either BR or BvS made the money it has.

Personally, BvS is making the kind of money one would anticipate, yes, less than I thought it would prior to release but still enough not for it to be heralded as 'unsucessful' financially.

Again, my view is BvS is a film I adore, I'm not going to pretend everybody has that view. It was made for comic book fans not particuarly the general audience in some aspects, if not all, but I don't see the problems that others (a large majority) have with the film.

For the issue of it's edit, ANY film with 30 minutes taken of it will be feel dis-jointed, CBM or not, and given the film's FULL length in first edit was FOUR hours, then no wonder the film for cinematic release and it's constraints for some felt 'messy'.

 

[Loki882]

It's definitely "underperformed." Because the movie that has Batman, Superma, AND Wonder Woman all meeting/interacting for the first time in a live-action film, shouldn't be struggling just to reach $900 million. Especially since the last two Nolan films, which only had Batman in them, both topped $1 billion.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Forget Batman, Supes and Wondy. Even looking at the (predicted) cost/profit ratio, it's a terrible underperformer. Even the most generous reading of the money it would have to make to recuperate its cost was around 800 mil. Which it barely met. All that means is that it avoided being branded a flop. But it's a box office disappointment. A major one.

 

[Loki882]

And if Captain America: CW blows it out of the water (which seems pretty likely at this point), then WB must be really disappointed.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Oh, it will. Cap will hit a billion. I guarantee it. The critics love it, and it sounds like most of the fans who have seen it so far do too.

 

[FunkMiller]

Oh, it will. Cap will hit a billion. I guarantee it. The critics love it, and it sounds like most of the fans who have seen it so far do too.

Yep. It's annoyingly brilliant

 

[Boy Scout]

...For the issue of it's edit, ANY film with 30 minutes taken of it will be feel dis-jointed, CBM or not, and given the film's FULL length in first edit was FOUR hours, then no wonder the film for cinematic release and it's constraints for some felt 'messy'.

I cannot and don't believe that Snyder, at any point, had a four hour movie on his hands. If that were the case, I'm almost certain that the studio would have insisted on splitting it into two parts.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Oh, it will. Cap will hit a billion. I guarantee it. The critics love it, and it sounds like most of the fans who have seen it so far do too.

Seen both, for me BvS is the FAR superior film....

 

[Mandon Knight]

I cannot and don't believe that Snyder, at any point, had a four hour movie on his hands. If that were the case, I'm almost certain that the studio would have insisted on splitting it into two parts.

There are reports the filmed pre-edit finished assemble edit was 4 hrs in length.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I do agree that there are much larger problems with the movie than lack of faithfulness. Even if the comics were like the film, it would still suck on its on merits and that's why it truly failed.

Exactly. The movie failed because it was a rambling, sloppily edited, nearly incoherent mess that never fulfilled on the many great ideas and performances it contained. And on top of all that, it simply failed to connect to audiences.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Exactly. The movie failed because it was a rambling, sloppily edited, nearly incoherent mess that never fulfilled on the many great ideas and performances it contained. And on top of all that, it simply failed to connect to audiences.

Good way of putting it.

 

[Raiden]

Seen both, for me BvS is the FAR superior film....

I knew you were Zack Snyder all along.