The Dark Knight New Aus Article: 'Batman to play second fiddle to Joker'

[Paste Pot Pete]

Actually, I bet this Joker listens to Sonic Youth or something.

 

[jediknight273]

Yes but the Prince music would give all the Burton fans a treat

 

[DrawingBlanks]

Actually, I bet this Joker listens to Sonic Youth or something.

For some reason I see this Joker as being more of a Throbbing Gristle kinda guy

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Well, I'm sure the film will be smart and stylish and cerebral etc, but this "Joker" is just too much of a departure from The Joker to really stand as a genuine Batman character, in my mind. If the film were to focus on him primarily, then it would be moving its attention not only from Batman the character, but Batman as a mythology and a fictional environment in general. It would be less of a "Batman" movie, I think.

Alas! I am not alone!

I was just about to say something regarding Nolan calling Joker "iconic" and then at the same time changing nearly everything iconic about him, but thought I'd just get slammed with the ol' "many interpretations" and "Nolan is a genius" and "give it a chance" so I almost didn't bother.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Personally, outside of his look being changed a bit, I don't see how Nolan and Ledger's Joker is so different, judging from what I've seen.

He laughs manaically. He is theatical (the way the bank robbery was executed, as well as the Slaughter Is The Best Medicine truck he drives). He has a twisted sense of humor. He is psychotic. How has he really been changed, aside from tweaks in his look?

 

[batmaluco]

Personally, outside of his look being changed a bit, I don't see how Nolan and Ledger's Joker is so different, judging from what I've seen.

He laughs manaically. He is theatical (the way the bank robbery was executed, as well as the Slaughter Is The Best Medicine truck he drives). He has a twisted sense of humor. He is psychotic. How has he really been changed, aside from tweaks in his look?

QFT

 

[Ibn]

Personally, outside of his look being changed a bit, I don't see how Nolan and Ledger's Joker is so different, judging from what I've seen.

He laughs manaically. He is theatical (the way the bank robbery was executed, as well as the Slaughter Is The Best Medicine truck he drives). He has a twisted sense of humor. He is psychotic. How has he really been changed, aside from tweaks in his look?

See that's the thing though. He's REALLY been changed physically. A part of what makes him so great is his looks. The stained green hair, the painful looking lips, and the fact that he's all white. I think that's what they're referring to. And sadly, I agree with regwec that hope for white skin is looking kinda naive right now.

 

[ultimatefan]

This article is yet another example of how, outside of hardcore extreme geekdom, Nolan´s Joker has been received with near unanimous praise and nobody really gives a flying f*** about the whole perma-white debacle.

 

[Juha]

I give a flying f*** only because I hope that he won't be perma-white. They already played with the Joker's skin back in '89 so I hope his skin won't be that big of a deal this time around. I think it's much more disturbing and interesting if the man just applies make-up. That way he is a self-made freak and not just some victim of circumstances.

Yeah I know what some of you guys are going to say. "The bleached skin is the essence of the Joker", or something like that. I honestly believe that it's possible to capture the spirit of the Joker without making him perma-white.

 

[Gianakin_]

I honestly believe that it's possible to capture the spirit of the Joker without making him perma-white.

Yup!

 

[Ibn]

This article is yet another example of how, outside of hardcore extreme geekdom, Nolan´s Joker has been received with near unanimous praise and nobody really gives a flying f*** about the whole perma-white debacle.

Right but see, I don't give a **** about them. One would get the feeling, after seeing the first movie, that Nolan is really trying to please us hardcore fans. As a hardcore fan, I'm pissed that he's not "perma-white". Because that's how he is in the comics. He doesn't put on make up. Nolan and his writers know this. He had to be sitting there like "well, if we make him not completely white, hardcore fans might be pissed. Random people however, won't give a ****. The average movie goer probably thinks he's always worn make up anyway. Plus it's way easier to say he's just putting on makeup, rather than tell how he came to be permanently stained." With the first movie it was like they were going to delve into the really deep aspects of the comics and bring them to life on screen. And they did that, with alot of accuracies that defined certain elements of the characters and environments. But now they just so happen to decide that, of all times, of all villains, that they are going to stray away from part of what makes The friggin Joker unique? The **** kind of sense is that?

 

[regwec]

Why would people who care about something defer to the preferences of those who don't?

 

[TNC9852002]

Why would you be worried TNC?

Well...I just don't want everyone to blow up all of the hype, all of this stuff on the Joker and have it be so overwhelming that when it comes time to watch the movie, it might become too much of a distraction since the anticipation level will be so high.

I feel like we haven't seen much of anything but already, we're approaching this unreachable bar of expectations and all of these weekly news articles showcasing Joker aren't helping. I'm just a little worried that the movie is going to let some people down that are expecting a lot more than greatness from this one, particular character. I've seen it happen before.

-TNC

 

[Snoo]

Well...I just don't want everyone to blow up all of the hype, all of this stuff on the Joker and have it be so overwhelming that when it comes time to watch the movie, it might become too much of a distraction since the anticipation level will be so high.

I feel like we haven't seen much of anything but already, we're approaching this unreachable bar of expectations and all of these weekly news articles showcasing Joker aren't helping. I'm just a little worried that the movie is going to let some people down that are expecting a lot more than greatness from this one, particular character. I've seen it happen before.

-TNC

Well said! Everyone's going completely ga-ga over the new Joker (me included), even people who aren't that much into Batman but they've seen the trailer and they're excited like crazy just as oldtime fans. That's saying a lot. It's fantastic but as you've said, fans and media can also go overboard.

IMO fans are more prone to disappointment in this case because the general audience doesn't have as high expectations as we do, they're just going into the theater with an open mind, mostly free of spoilers, and they want to be the entertained.

For fans to go crazy over onscreen Joker is one thing (they know him from the comics, cartoons, etc., and they love him already) but for the average Joe to admire what Ledger's done with the role, now THAT's great. I'm hoping the excitement will be shared by the general audience and I don't think they'll be that disappointed, not over minor details like fans sometimes are anyway. They'll probably love him as long as he's scary and crazy and makes them laugh.

Any disappointment regarding Ledger's performance will be in the fans' camp, methinks.

I sure hope Ledger can live up to the hype. I believe he will and I have faith in him. Let's just hope the disappointed people will be in the minority. That way they'll just be disappointed like with any other movie and not because TDK was "overhyped" and they had too high expectations because of it!

 

[ultimatefan]

Right but see, I don't give a **** about them. One would get the feeling, after seeing the first movie, that Nolan is really trying to please us hardcore fans. As a hardcore fan, I'm pissed that he's not "perma-white". Because that's how he is in the comics. He doesn't put on make up. Nolan and his writers know this. He had to be sitting there like "well, if we make him not completely white, hardcore fans might be pissed. Random people however, won't give a ****. The average movie goer probably thinks he's always worn make up anyway. Plus it's way easier to say he's just putting on makeup, rather than tell how he came to be permanently stained." With the first movie it was like they were going to delve into the really deep aspects of the comics and bring them to life on screen. And they did that, with alot of accuracies that defined certain elements of the characters and environments. But now they just so happen to decide that, of all times, of all villains, that they are going to stray away from part of what makes The friggin Joker unique? The **** kind of sense is that?

And I don´t give a flying f*** to the perma-white thing, so I´m gonna take side with the average joes on that. Sometimes they have a much better appreciation exactly for not being as deeply into it as the purists/fanatics, who too often overlook the beauty of the forest for being too busy overanalysing the trees.

 

[Nightwing1977]

People have already seen how Bale plays Batman in the first movie, i.e. he is a known quantity. Hence, the comparatively lesser hype.

If TDK had been the first Batman movie in the new franchise, there would be equal (if not more) conjecture about how Nolan would portray Batman.

I agree. Batman won't be the supporting character again like the first 4 films. It just we seen him enough in BB, that they want to promote Joker a lot right now in the trailers & such.

 

[The Joker]

Batman will not be playing second fiddle in the story, but Joker will probably steal the movie, because he's a scene stealing type of character.

He could have only a handful of scenes, and still probably steal the movie with his performance.

 

[jimmy]

Steal? From the Goddamn Batman? I think not!

 

[Magenta666]

Batman will not be playing second fiddle in the story, but Joker will probably steal the movie, because he's a scene stealing type of character.

He could have only a handful of scenes, and still probably steal the movie with his performance.

you know what? I would love it if he did it...Joker has always been my favorite, even more than Batman wow.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Right but see, I don't give a **** about them. One would get the feeling, after seeing the first movie, that Nolan is really trying to please us hardcore fans. As a hardcore fan, I'm pissed that he's not "perma-white". Because that's how he is in the comics. He doesn't put on make up. Nolan and his writers know this. He had to be sitting there like "well, if we make him not completely white, hardcore fans might be pissed. Random people however, won't give a ****. The average movie goer probably thinks he's always worn make up anyway. Plus it's way easier to say he's just putting on makeup, rather than tell how he came to be permanently stained." With the first movie it was like they were going to delve into the really deep aspects of the comics and bring them to life on screen. And they did that, with alot of accuracies that defined certain elements of the characters and environments. But now they just so happen to decide that, of all times, of all villains, that they are going to stray away from part of what makes The friggin Joker unique? The **** kind of sense is that?

I don't like the make up either. Not because of the comics, because it looks like $#!t. But if you think about it, didn't they really only stick with the (arguably) "true story" of Batman? I mean, scarecrow didn't look a damn thing like the comic book version. And they changed a ton of stuff about the mythology... not having a batmobile, Wayne hating his parents, etc.

So I guess I don't really see Nolan as attempting to please the hardcore fans even if they give lip service to that. I think they're being pragmatic and doing whatever they think will work on the big screen to a wide audience. =(

 

[DaddyGrayson]

I don't like the make up either. Not because of the comics, because it looks like $#!t. But if you think about it, didn't they really only stick with the (arguably) "true story" of Batman? I mean, scarecrow didn't look a damn thing like the comic book version. And they changed a ton of stuff about the mythology... not having a batmobile, Wayne hating his parents, etc.

So I guess I don't really see Nolan as attempting to please the hardcore fans even if they give lip service to that. I think they're being pragmatic and doing whatever they think will work on the big screen to a wide audience. =(

Uh.... what!?!

 

[SymbioteKnight]

Is it just me, or does the Joker just seem like a nut who wears makeup?

 

[Ibn]

And I don´t give a flying f*** to the perma-white thing, so I´m gonna take side with the average joes on that. Sometimes they have a much better appreciation exactly for not being as deeply into it as the purists/fanatics, who too often overlook the beauty of the forest for being too busy overanalysing the trees.

So beeing deep into a characters suddenly means nothing? The average joe didn't mind that there was no batmobile, because they weren't that deep into it as me. I however, being a life long fan of the character and his "gadgets" was hoping for a batmobile because that's part of his mythos. Average Joe didn't care that Ra's was completely different from in the comics. However, I did because part of the reason I go see a comic adaptation is because I want to see what is in the comics come to life. Granted, they strayed away from alot of the source material, but you know what? They made it work. Just like Tim Burton made it work. I'm not saying that the movie or the Joker won't be great. I'm saying that, at least in my book, one of the main points in going to see a comic book film, is to see what actually took place in the comics on the big screen. This Joker is not what was in the comics.

 

[Ibn]

I don't like the make up either. Not because of the comics, because it looks like $#!t. But if you think about it, didn't they really only stick with the (arguably) "true story" of Batman? I mean, scarecrow didn't look a damn thing like the comic book version. And they changed a ton of stuff about the mythology... not having a batmobile, Wayne hating his parents, etc.

So I guess I don't really see Nolan as attempting to please the hardcore fans even if they give lip service to that. I think they're being pragmatic and doing whatever they think will work on the big screen to a wide audience. =(

Very true. You really think he looks like **** though? I still think he looks ok.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Very true. You really think he looks like **** though? I still think he looks ok.

I leave it up to you.