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[The Guard]

While I don't want Veidt to die, Veidt dying would not change a thing about the themes about whether what he did was right or wrong. And as we all know, Veidt's fate is really quite moot anyway.

 

[Katsuro]

While I don't want Veidt to die, Veidt dying would not change a thing about the themes about whether what he did was right or wrong. And as we all know, Veidt's fate is really quite moot anyway.

In essence, it wouldn't, but his death in the scripts was always written as a cliched Bond-villain death, which would kind of paint him as a cliched Bond-villain.

Consider this, why would they kill him off? It's not like a studio to want more death in their comic book movies. They want it for the reason I mentioned, it makes him more villainous and it's easier for audiences to digest. Yay, the bad guy got it in the end. The bad guy.

 

[Sasso]

While I don't want Veidt to die, Veidt dying would not change a thing about the themes about whether what he did was right or wrong.

True, but it would somewhat clash with other themes present throughout the story not to mention it would create many, many plot holes. Perhaps most obvious of which would be something Veidt himself brings up (I believe), in that if he's murdered people would surely investigate, find out that he was behind the squid, and his plan would fail miserably. If Veidt dies at the end so does the movie.


By the way, am I alone in seeing Veidt as the actual hero of the story? Everyone seems to treat him as the offical villain of Watchmen.

 

[Agentsands77]

By the way, am I alone in seeing Veidt as the actual hero of the story? Everyone seems to treat him as the offical villain of Watchmen.

You're not. Others have suggested it. I don't really agree that he's a hero, necessarily, but I can't write him off as a villain, either. I think he, like everybody else in WATCHMEN, is complicated.

 

[Katsuro]

You're not. Others have suggested it. I don't really agree that he's a hero, necessarily, but I can't write him off as a villain, either. I think he, like everybody else in WATCHMEN, is complicated.

One of the great things about Watchmen is that it's open to debate like that. Superhero comics are known for having clear-cut good guys and bad guys, and Watchmen does exactly the opposite.

 

[sad lieutenant]

I was uncertain about how Snyder would adapt the scene where Big Figure's goon gets a knife to his jugular. No offense, but that bit never made sense to me in the comic: even IF tying a dude's pinkies together would really render him useless, what good is it to stab him in the neck? He's still in the way of the lock! In any case, I'm pleased to hear that Snyder has resorted to the more ultra-violent solution of a circular saw. Fawking brilliant.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Well, imagine if they DIDN'T kill the goon. That means as they use the torch on the bars, and the goon starts to get burned, you get to listen to him scream in agony. That'd be annoying!

 

[Carmine Falcone]

This movie is gonna kick an astronomous amount of ASSSS!

 

[The Guard]

True, but it would somewhat clash with other themes present throughout the story not to mention it would create many, many plot holes.

Which themes does it clash with, exactly? The themes of whether or not Veidt's actions were right and wrong, justified, etc, don't change at all. He just wouldn't be alive at the end.

Perhaps most obvious of which would be something Veidt himself brings up (I believe), in that if he's murdered people would surely investigate, find out that he was behind the squid, and his plan would fail miserably.

Or maybe when he went missing, since he left behind a datebook saying he had gone to Karnak, people would just think he took a vacation to Karnak, until the truth came out, at which point it would be irrelevant. People would find out he's behind the events of WATCHMEN anyway, due to Rorschach's journal entries. Veidt's death gives Dr. Manhattan's "Nothing ever ends" additional meaning.

Add to that what Veidt/Dan's confrontation/death does for Dan and Veidt's interactions as characters. A substory in WATCHMEN script has been the friendships and relationships the group once had, their dissolution and later on, as the story progressed, their regrowth, or re-examination. This provides yet another angle to that. Veidt dying actually, in context, makes the story deeper and the script and characterization and character interactions and relationships even stronger. Writers haven't been stupid enough just to kill him off with no payoff. David Hayter deserves a lot of credit for this, for introducing the scene where Dan visits Veidt instead of Rorschach, and further developing their relationship throughout the script.

Also, this event enhances Dan's "struggle" and "conflict" over what it means to be a hero. During WATCHMEN, when faced with such a monumental decision, Dreiberg STRUGGLES with whether or not to tell the world. This angle enhances that element of the story. And you know what, when you think about it, it's just more realistic overall. It fits Veidt's character more, in a lot of ways. This man killed The Comedian. He killed dozens of relative innocents in building his plan, and in the most recent drafts, millions of relative innocents all over the world. And we're to believe he wouldn't kill his friends and former allies to keep his Utopia and save the world? He'd be a fool not to.a

If Veidt dies at the end so does the movie.

That is simply not true. This is just the outlook that people who haven't fully considered the events implications in literary terms have stuck with because it's a "change" to a beloved element of WATCHMEN.

By the way, am I alone in seeing Veidt as the actual hero of the story? Everyone seems to treat him as the offical villain of Watchmen.

There are no heroes in WATCHMEN. Everyone screws up, and everyone is flawed in some way, in the context of "being a hero". This is half the point of the characterizations in the graphic novel.

In essence, it wouldn't, but his death in the scripts was always written as a cliched Bond-villain death, which would kind of paint him as a cliched Bond-villain.

There are obvious elements of serial (Bond villain) to Adrian Veidt already. I don't see how this is an issue. Either you're smart enough to reason out the elements the character has, despite what the movie shows you, or you're not.

Consider this, why would they kill him off?

1. The obvious morality aspect, which doesn't negate the issues surrounding his actions.

2. To strengthen the drama, and to make the nature of the schism between Dan and Veidt, which every script has played up more than the original graphic novel, more weighty and relevant. Veidt and Dan were good friends in every recent draft, and the schism is a big deal, an additional emotional angle to the story.

3. To make the impact of finding of Rorschach's journal even more telling. Despite Dan's "heroic" actions to kill Veidt, all was for naught. It speaks volumes about the nature of heroism.

Yeah, there's a bit of a morality play there, but so what? We all know there are still relevant issues surrounding Veidt's actions, and that his actions can be argued. Other than the fact that it's not in the graphic novel, so what?

 

[DoctorJones]

I'm going to wait and see if Veidt dies in the film so I'm not going to make a void argument, but one must note Moore approved of Hayter's script.

 

[The Guard]

He approved of it to a point. He thought that's about as close as they were going to get to getting it right. They've gotten closer, though. Much, much closer.

 

[arman200]

While I don't want Veidt to die, Veidt dying would not change a thing about the themes about whether what he did was right or wrong. And as we all know, Veidt's fate is really quite moot anyway.

Any attempt to make Watchmen fit any typical mold of "heroes-and-villains" will really miss the point of the series. So the end in snyder's script, where Dan and ozymandius duke it out, really just doesn't fit well. To have ozymandius die would fit that whole superhero movie cliche, where the villain of the flick dies in the end. I just don't see a reason that he SHOULD die.

 

[The Guard]

Any attempt to make Watchmen fit any typical mold of "heroes-and-villains" will really miss the point of the series. So the end in snyder's script, where Dan and ozymandius duke it out, really just doesn't fit well. To have ozymandius(who is viewed as the villain to most) die would fit that whole superhero movie cliche, where the villain of the flick dies in the end. I just don't see a reason that he SHOULD die.

That is the end of Hayter's script, Tse's script, and possibly other scripts. But that may not be what Snyder puts into the film. We'll just have to wait and see.

How will it miss the point? If an audience believes Veidt to be a villain regardless, then they likely won't appreciate the themes of "gray areas" involved anyway.

It's impossible for a movie to miss the point when it's already made it in a prior scene. I don't see a reason why he should die, either, but acting like Veidt's death will somehow wipe out the themes that have already been presented to the audience for thought is absurd.

I don't think Veidt will die, though.

 

[Katsuro]

Veidt's death gives Dr. Manhattan's "Nothing ever ends" additional meaning.

A line we wont hear if Veidt dies. That final moment between the Doc and Veidt is too great to miss out on.

 

[The Guard]

A line we wont hear if Veidt dies. That final moment between the Doc and Veidt is too great to miss out on.

Dr. Manhattan says "Nothing ever ends" before he leaves them, which is before Veidt would die. So not only would we hear it, it would reference his death as well as the world finding out about his plot.

 

[arman200]

It's impossible for a movie to miss the point when it's already made it in a prior scene. I don't see a reason why he should die, either, but acting like Veidt's death will somehow wipe out the themes that have already been presented to the audience for thought is absurd.

It wouldn't wipe present themes, but it just wouldn't fit in the way it's written by hayter and tse. Not the way I'd like to see it end. But If he died in some way that worked well with everything we'd just seen, fine by me.

 

[The Battousai]

Some more confirmation from "Mr. Ex" - the extra who gave us some info in the past.

Apparently, the squid is still in it along with Osterman's flashback involving his father.

Also, Crudup's performance is supposedly spot-on - hopefully this will be translated correctly into the CG Manhattan.

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/061908-watchmen-movie-extra-gossip.php

 

[Gotham]

Some more confirmation from "Mr. Ex" - the extra who gave us some info in the past.

Apparently, the squid is still in it along with Osterman's flashback involving his father.

Also, Crudup's performance is supposedly spot-on - hopefully this will be translated correctly into the CG Manhattan.

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/061908-watchmen-movie-extra-gossip.php

Please let there be The Squid. I hope this report is true, especially about Crudup's performance.