New Warriors...Why NOT Marvel?

THANOSRULES

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I don't get it..the members of the old New Warriors are fairly active these days..

Why not bring us a nice Original lineup Mini?

Namorita-Alive and unused
Justice- Used, but not really vital to Academy etc..
SpeedBall- Same as above
Nova- Dead, but of course he's not really dead..if your hell bent on keeping him in space, use Robbie or even Tarcel as a fill in.
Night Thrasher- Seemed like a lot of interest in reviving him at 1 point, now he's kinda fizzled.
Firestar- Wasting her time with Young Allies, a good book, but not New Warriors


There is nothing wrong with any of the above characters..

There is nothing wrong with the concept of New Warriors...


Keep the rest of the associated charcters (ie Tarene, Ultra Girl, Aegis(dead right?), not horrible characters, but I'd give the Original team a good run 1st.


I would consider Bringing Rage, Slapstick, and Darkhawk in soon, becuase they are great characters.


I don't get why Marvel doesnt bring this team back..


I'd say there are probably more fans of the New Warriors than Defenders fans, unless your talking about just respecting the defenders base team power.

But you get that original lineup of NW and really, they would be a force to reckon with.
 
They obviously don't believe there's the potential to make any money there. Whether there is or not is debatable, but a comic's gotta have someone high enough on the food chain behind it to get made.
 
...Ive always had trouble thinking that the book didnt have some fans(Slott, Gage, Cheever come to mind)..and on the money issue, we're talking about a nice mini, I mean Marvel invested in a Devil Slayer mini for chirst sakes.
 
Marvel HAD a chance to bring the New Warriors back after CIVIL WAR had made them more (in)famous, but that chance was wasted with the volume we got (technically the 4th) - which focused little on the NW's people cared about and instead brought in a new team of ex-mutants (with Jubilee and Chamber, better known from Generation X). Sure, the "Old Warriors", as Counter-Force, showed up a few times, and Dwayne Taylor's brother Bandit took over the mantle there (which Christos Gage picked up in a subplot towards the end of AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE), but by and large it wasn't what the fanbase wanted.

(And even THAT volume of New Warriors lasted 20 issues. I can think of a damn lot of other relaunches that didn't last 20 issues.)

And I imagine it did have a fanbase. Its first volume lasted 75 issues. I mean, DARKHAWK keeps coming back, and his first volume didn't last as long. Hell, WEREWOLF BY NIGHT didn't last that long in the 70's (about 43 issues and a few GIANT SIZE annuals), and yet he's back in X-FACTOR at the moment.

The problem with NEW WARRIORS is a similar problem that effects a lot of other C-List franchises that Marvel tries to revive every few years. It is that while Marvel is interested in keeping the name in circulation for trademark purposes, they don't bring back those elements that fans enjoyed. The end of the first volume was clearly past it's prime; Scarlet Spider had been desperately added to the roster so that NEW WARRIORS could be claimed as one of the Spider-Imprint of books to boost sales; it didn't work. Marvel tried to relaunch the book about a year and change after canning it, but that was an ill attempt. The book didn't have a regular artist for a while, and the costumes designed for the cast were so terrible, that the editor eventually had to announce the refusal to print any more letters complaining about them - utterly failing to realize that it was why sales were tanking. Hey, it was the bankruptcy era. And the mini series that came later was about a team of reality TV superheroes - a premise that had NOTHING to do with the New Warriors, but was attached to them out of cowardice towards launching new franchises. The "new premise on an old franchise that doesn't fit it" routine has been done with NAMOR and DOCTOR STRANGE a damn lot in relaunches, too.

Yet the recent ALPHA FLIGHT mini shows how to do it right. You get the main cast back, and bring back those interrelationships people liked, along with writer(s) who care, and a top notch artist.

AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE by the end was basically New Warriors in everything but name. It featured Justice and Ultra-Girl as major characters, as well as having a lot of focus on Night-Thrasher II, Rage, Slapstick, and Debrii. Even the last MVP clone version of Scarlet Spider joining their squad (or "Counter-Force") was an homage to the 90's era.

So, what is the problem with a relaunch? Several. Yes, sales are one, but that isn't the biggest one. I mean, this is an era of Marvel that is so desperate to publish extra comics that WINTER GUARD once got a mini series recently. FOOLKILLER got TWO Marvel Max mini's, for heaven's sakes. But there are other issues. The first being the central premise is showing age. A name like "NEW WARRIORS" worked in 1990. But after over 30 years, they're not so "new" anymore. At the time, the book was probably an answer to DC's TEEN TITANS, which by 1990 was past it's prime (although IN it's prime, it competed with UNCANNY X-MEN), but the characters can no longer claim that; they've all grown up and mostly moved on. At DC, the unspoken rule is that the Teen Titans are the junior team for the Justice League, the trainee team. Yet that never really happened for the New Warriors; Justice and Firestar were the only two who became Avengers (Rage started as one, via lying, but was booted). While Justice has remained on fringe Avengers stuff like The Initiative or Academy, Firestar's tenure there has been all but forgotten. Not even Speedball is sure if being an instructor at Academy counts (it doesn't; unless Captain America vouches, you're not an Avenger). So, besides sales, the biggest problem may be a lack of a place or purpose for the team now. AVENGERS ACADEMY and NEW MUTANTS are filling the void for junior teams lately. YOUNG ALLIES just tanked last year, with SPIDER-GIRL right behind it. YOUTH IN REVOLT is not selling very well (and that also has some of those NW characters like Rage, Thrasher, and Debrii showing up).

It isn't that the NW's are "new" characters; when the series launched in 1990, many of the characters hailed from the 80's - only Night-Thrasher was new.

Now, I understand the idea of why certain franchises are relaunched with bizarre premises that don't match. Editorial demands a reason for the book to exist in the pitch, and that encourages a lot of zany ideas. I don't think that is a wise strategy, and it obviously has not usually panned out in lasting power - sure, Bendis' wild new idea for MOON KNIGHT had a solid debut, but it's only 3 issues in and sliding down the Top 50. But by that same token, I do understand a book needing to fill a particular niche or void. Is there a void for a team of former teenage heroes who are now in their early to mid 20's, most of whom have moved onto other things? Or aren't very well known anymore to the casual reader? I imagine the franchise does have it's fans with some writers who keep using the characters - Dan Slott, Christos Gage, Sean McKeever, even C.B. Cebulski (who seems to flip flop between editing and writing). But is that enough?

Status Of The NW's:

Justice - Still involved with the Avengers, mostly in training youngsters. Is actively dating Ultra-Girl after Firestar backed out of their engagement practically on their wedding day.

Speedball - Former lunatic, Thunderbolt, now an Academy mentor.

Firestar - Cancer survivor, wants to only be a part-time heroine to focus on college and occasional "gal-pal" outings; is sort of dating Gravity.

Night-Thrasher II - Former criminal brother of the original, Donyell "Bandit" Taylor is technically one of few mutants to retain his powers after M-Day, even if he NEVER seems to use them. Tried to revive his brother via underhanded means, but has learned to accept his death. Still usually leads NW's reunions.

Namorita - Was killed in CIVIL WAR #1. A version of her plucked from an earlier time was taken from the Fault, a place outside of time and space that thus broke the rules, by Nova. This version was not told of her "actual" death on earth to Nitro. She was last seen at Project PEGASUS mourning the loss of Nova with his brother, Robbie.

Nova - Went into space in ANNIHILATION, where he became a big damn space hero without the NW's. He's currently MIA and presumed dead.

Darkhawk - Quit to become one of Excelsior/The Loners, but fell back into heroism and went to space with Nova. Things didn't turn out so well for him. The last we saw of him, he was injured defending Project PEGASUS (where he worked) just before the start of THANOS IMPERATIVE and he hasn't been seen since.

Turbo - Quit to become one of Excelsior/The Loners, and while Michiko "Mickey" Musashi was willing to don her Turbo costume in RUNAWAYS to fight Ultron, she was the one who seemed to be most stern about leaving costumes behind. She had been dating Darkhawk, and agreed to watch over his family when he went to space. Hasn't been seen since, either.

Silhouette - Technically quit the NW's during their first volume, but remained involved with the team. She appeared during CIVIL WAR in various places and confirmed that Donyell was the new Night-Thrasher in the last NW series in a cameo. She's a hat-trick in terms of diverse characters - female, non-white, and crippled.

Rage - He's still affiliated with NW reunions. Recently had his ass kicked by Juggernaut in YOUTH IN REVOLT.

Ultra-Girl - Same as Rage; dating Justice.

Slapstick - Same as Rage. Had an unresolved subplot from A:TI; he is stuck in the form of Slapstick after not being allowed to transform back to Steve Harmon during boot camp, and has found himself growing insane. A vengeful, violent streak has popped up at times. But, this subplot has been almost entirely abandoned, and he usually just shows up to offer a one-liner or a visual gag.

Powerpax/Alex Power - Member of the Future Foundation alongside former Power Pack member Tattletale/Franklin Richards.

Cloak & Dagger - Reserve members, they appear in semi-annual mini's or one-shots. Were briefly X-Men.

Hindsight Lad - Booted from the team after he used his website to incite mobs to go after surviving NW's after Stamford. Was always at best a hanger-on.

Timeslip - A mutant with time travel/speed type abilities, she was depowered at the end of their first volume (her powers burned out stopping a Dire Wraith bomb). She's shown up in some cameos in costume since, but it is unknown if she has any power left.

Helix - Walking pile of mystery introduced from MAXIMUM CLONAGE during the era when NW was linked to Spidey - which happened to be smack in the midst of the Clone Sage endgame. Spidercide is LITERALLY part of his origin. One of those guys whose power is to adapt to any situation, and was fairly powerful. He's been wandering around, looking for his identity since about '97.

Sprocket - A minor character, she served as the NW's pilot. She is the mother of Redeemers member Meteorite. She quit the team after they booted Dwayne from their ranks at one point.

Debrii - Is literally the only new member from volumes 2 and 3 who survived. She initially wanted on for the reality TV gig and joined the Initiative, but later quit the team when they were trying to usurp Osborn's Dark Reign. She's rejoined them in YOUTH IN REVOLT, and seems to have evened her temper a bit.

Scarlet Spider (Patrick) - Is the only one of the three Scarlet Spiders who has survived. He still adventures with the NW's but doesn't say or do much. He's a blank slate.

Dead Members: Microbe, Bolt, Aegis, Scarlet Spider/Ben Reilly, Nova.

I didn't count the ex-mutants of volume four, but out of them, Wondra/Jubilee was really the biggest character, and she's a vampire now. Three of this squad were killed, too.

The biggest problem is why to relaunch the team and what purpose they would serve besides being yet another team of heroes in a universe that seems to be packed to gills with them. There are four teams of Avengers, several teams of X-Men, Alpha Flight, Heroes/Villains For Hire, soon to be two Fantastic Four books, and that's not counting aborted teams like Young Allies and Agents Of Atlas. They're not new anymore nor are any of them ever going to be Avengers again who weren't made Avengers during the Kurt Busiek run. Yet they can't be called THE WARRIORS without being sued, either. Their original premise was to go after the threats that the "bigger" teams neglected, but aside for a few "urban street gang" stories, they typically battled the same off the wall threats as any other team. Their enemies have no recognition and the greatest villains they did battle were from other galleries, such as Terrax, or leftovers from whatever team members once had ongoings, such as Sphinx from Nova's old book. Imagine the Teen Titans without Deathstroke the Terminator, and you're very close. Psionex and Force Of Nature aren't exactly memorable.

At this point, you could consider Night-Thrasher II, Rage, Ultra-Girl, Slapstick, and Debrii as "active" New Warriors, in that they usually adventure together or within close proximity.
 
I always felt that Ben Reilly's time on the team felt too rushed due to him taking up the Spider-Man mantle. So much more could have been done and explored not only with him on the team, but his relationship with the team. Marvel really dropped the ball on that.
 
New Warriors...? Just read Avengers Academy. It has former members, new heroes and the same teenage angst like the original series from Nicenza and Bagley.
 
What's funny is I just read over at CBR that back before NW started there was a pitch for a Young Avengers, which basically starred the first NW cast and was scrapped because NW was in the works. And now some of the NW ARE Avengers. Amazing stuff there.
 
Yeah, it was Rob Liefeld of all people that pitched it and Cap was supposed to be the prominent Avengers training/leading the team.
 
Actually, it was Rick Jones, but Cap formed the team.
 
Yup, you're right. I remember now...Rick was supposed to be the lead of the series.
 
Dread,

I agree that the real nice hooks for this team were in the past, even got some steam there after Dark Reign, where i really thought the team would re-unite.

The frustrating part, is there is the "concept" that one needs the perfect set up for a book..when really I've always found that BS..good art, writing, creative team, and any book can work...as a general rule.

I didnt mind the last Volume of NW, it was dissapointing to see the direction, but I enjoyed it eventually..mainly becuase the writing was fairly good, the art and covers were excellent, and the stories were decent. To be sure it had flaws, but Ive read worse books. I don't know if I enjoyed it as a New Warriors book..but I appreciated it, and I actually appreciated Marvel giving it a long leash and a 20 issue run ( maybe just to coddle "Hollywood" Talent).
 
I always felt that Ben Reilly's time on the team felt too rushed due to him taking up the Spider-Man mantle. So much more could have been done and explored not only with him on the team, but his relationship with the team. Marvel really dropped the ball on that.

The dilemma is that Marvel never intended for Ben Reilly's tenure on NEW WARRIORS to be anything more than a stunt to boost sales. The book was on the wane and Marvel had it in their head that "families" of titles sell well. I.E. everything has to be a Spider-book or an X-book or so on. So, they wanted to make NEW WARRIORS a Spider-book. So, they attached Reilly and threw in some involvement in Clone Saga crap that brought us Helix. But in the end, like most stunts, it didn't take and only delayed the inevitable.

I mean, if that bottle spun the other way, they'd have added Gambit to the cast and made it an X-Book. :p

New Warriors...? Just read Avengers Academy. It has former members, new heroes and the same teenage angst like the original series from Nicenza and Bagley.

Good advice. The "SUPER HERO PROM" issue addressed some things between Justice and Firestar, and had no end of "old" Warriors there.

Dread,

I agree that the real nice hooks for this team were in the past, even got some steam there after Dark Reign, where i really thought the team would re-unite.

The frustrating part, is there is the "concept" that one needs the perfect set up for a book..when really I've always found that BS..good art, writing, creative team, and any book can work...as a general rule.

I didnt mind the last Volume of NW, it was dissapointing to see the direction, but I enjoyed it eventually..mainly becuase the writing was fairly good, the art and covers were excellent, and the stories were decent. To be sure it had flaws, but Ive read worse books. I don't know if I enjoyed it as a New Warriors book..but I appreciated it, and I actually appreciated Marvel giving it a long leash and a 20 issue run ( maybe just to coddle "Hollywood" Talent).

The "Counter-Force" angle was always something that would only last so long as there was a corrupt Initiative. It was fine as a subplot in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE but I don't think it could have sold it's own book. "Counter-Force" was really just New Warriors under another name, and they eventually went back to that name. But, after A:TI became AVENGERS ACADEMY, there seemed to be no real place for it. It was the HEROIC AGE, everything was hunky-dorey. No need to rebel against the man anymore.

I read that last NEW WARRIORS run and while it had it's moments it also had a lot of awkward bits or misfires, and a cast that was too large. Kevin Grevioux has been on stronger ground as a writer with his Adam Brashear/Blue Marvel character that he created after that series was canned.

I could think of no end of comic books that had "good art, writing, creative team" and who sunk like a stone in terms of sales. Check out the comics that sell below the Top 100, I guarantee a lot of them will actually be good comics. Unfortunately, those qualities aren't enough. Not even slapping Bendis' name on a book ensures sales forever anymore.

The problem I have with the New Warriors now, and this is coming as someone who would have genuine interest in buying a relaunch, it is that they need something more to a story besides just a reunion. Sure, I could write a fan-fic which reunites the entire team to fight Kang and Blastaar or something, but without some sort of hook or series subplot, it just becomes a story that could be used for ANY team. Check out a large chunk of Joss Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN run. It involved a generic alien adventure to Breakworld. Aside for the angle of Colossus being of vital importance, you could have inserted any superhero team in that story - the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Gatchaman, the Sailor Scouts, the Ninja Turtles, etc. - and it would have read exactly the same without almost no need for a rewrite of any scene. A NEW WARRIORS relaunch which was similar would not sell, and would not last at all.

The New Warriors are not NEW anymore. In fact they're over 20 years old now, and their founders hailed from the 1980's - hell, Nova hailed from the friggin' 70's. Most of their well defined characters have either passed on or moved on to places in which a reunion would be seen as a demotion. Nobody wants to see Nova step down from being a cosmic bad-ass to stopping the Rhino robbing a Midtown bank again, same as Justice and Speedball abandoning the Avengers to slum with the NW again would be seen as regressive. If Firestar isn't an Avenger - and by all rights she should be - then rejoining the NW's would make her seem like someone who can't move on. Nobody takes characters like Beast Boy or Raven seriously because they NEVER leave the ****ing Teen Titans even though they're both 40 years old.

Let's play with the NW's who are apparently part of the official roster. Night-Thrasher II, Rage, Ultra-Girl, Slapstick, Scarlet Spider (Patrick/MVP Clone), and Debrii.

On the plus side, you have a fairly diverse team. In fact, the only one who is a standard "white male" is literally a clone. Off the top of my head, the character dynamic that leaps out at me is between Donyell and Elvin/Rage. Dwayne Taylor was Rage's legal guardian after gang members killed his beloved grandma; while in a superhuman adult body, he's still only a teenager in terms of age and mentality (although I'd argue an adult man with the mind of a teenager is about average for an American male). Rage should have taken losing Dwayne especially hard, and here Donyell is trying to reclaim that mantle. Donyell is basically an adopted uncle figure, trying to literally fill the shoes of an adoptive father figure (or elder brother figure). The dynamic between the two could be very interesting - especially if you seriously play with the idea that Rage's strength level DOES increase with anger and one day he could be as strong as Wonder Man or Thing, if not stronger. Ultra-Girl was created by Peter David and is very close to Supergirl in a lot of ways; she was to a degree groomed as Ms. Marvel's successor before Norman Osborn made her surrender that costume. Slapstick is an insane cartoon character living out the fantasies of a repressed teenager - he should seem like having The Mask as a regular member of the team - zany, but with a hint of a dark side if things aren't resolved. Debrii has to continue on her course of growing up and figuring out who she wants to be. As for Scarlet Spider/Patrick, he needs a personality. He was defined as being part of identical triplets, same as the Stepford Cuckcoos. The standard subplot for him would be a search for identity, the ol' "am I real or just a copy of a copy" stuff that X-23 is going through, only maybe not as mopey hopefully. It might help if he redesigned the suit a little so it didn't look like Stark's design - after all, the suit can change it's design at will, right?

Micky/Turbo wants to quit and has retired from heroics for some time. I imagine whenever Darkhawk recovers, he'd pick up from where he left off. Namorita would have a clean slate, but how would everyone manage to tell her about the fact that on this world, she's dead and her mother's alive? Does being removed from a prior time-line via a fluke count as being resurrected, or is she just another version of the dead Namorita? To a degree she could have an identity issue subplot like Scarlet Spider, although it would be different as she actually HAS a life and an identity, just it's led to places she didn't expect.

And sure, you put a decent artist and writer on it, and it'd be a fine read. But you can't promote a comic under, "this'll be a fun diversion". You need SOMETHING to get people jazzed so it lasts longer than six issues. Unless it's a mini, of course, like ALPHA FLIGHT is.
 
I could think of a couple hooks right now,

-Someone starts to kill off Warriors, and the team needs to reunite to battle the threat.(kill off some fodder like those minor warriors you mentioned)
-Robbie Ryder gets the team together to go look for Nova (although I'm sure that story has a plan)

Both those would work well enough for a mini, and really, thats all I'm asking for.

I thought Kevin had an excellent story with his view of Dwayne as a "iron man" type character...I had talked personally with him about this concept when he visited an older board. I.E., Dwayne was a lot like TOny Stark and had a lot of his ability. The book was too decompressed for a NW book though, it's one thing asking fans to bear through decompression when your talking about a Thor book, but NW vol 4 lost a lot of fans early...becuase of the decompression, and becuase of it's status as some sort of X-book.

I know what your saying about launches, but really, asking ANY book out there to be a new launch without dwindling sales is a rough task these days.

The great thing about a NW book, and this goes for a young allies and academy type books, is these books tend to do "profound" things with their characters, becuase they don't have deal with someone like Bendis or JMS hyjacking the characterization of the team memebers for "their" books.

That was one of the reason I liked NW back in the day, stuff "happened" to the characters...this has got worse and worse at marvel. It's why I always preferred West Coast Avengers to the mainline Avengers book back in that era as well.

It seems marvels only answer here is to "create" new characters and books, so we get ATI and ACADEMY.

Marvel just needs to take a loss on some books! And while they probably do this already, it's probably with surplus x books or tie in books.

At any rate, I'm not as hung up about the preposterous nature of the name "New Warriors"...I mean DC has New Guardians, New Gods, and had the New Teen Titans for like 10 years. Marvel has New Avengers going on 10 years..really dread..it's a minor gripe. "secret warriors" would have been a good name for this group, although that ship sailed..could have been an interesting hook as well.

But even in Secret Warriors, It might have worked to have Fury use people with something to prove like old NW..I guess he did want fresh talent without the face recognition though..but Marvel part of my beef is Marvel keeps creating new characters who are essentially similiar to the New Warriors, while old "new" characters go UNUSED and Forgotten, certainly not an issue that only includes NW, but something that bothers me.
 
I like the Search for Nova idea. They can be the New Warriors in space, why not?
 
The Idea could work....I.E. Robbie gets frustrated with Worldmind/Ko-Rel for not giving enough effort to the search...instead he takes some assets and goes to re-unite the warriors for the search.

Cameos by GOTG..etc..

Plus..it gives a heckuva angle at the "never really explored" Vance Astro- Justice meeting...They are after all the same guy.

Namorita is already in space, so is darkhawk. Keep the team used the original members, who, at this point, could handle fairly large threats.

Firestar
Robbie Ryder as a Nova
Justice
Speedball
Namorita
Darkhawk
Night Thrasher- (who downloaded some new specs for space armor from his time in the future..increases his power)

Possibly Rage too, I think he's been in space before.

Not sure who I'd make the "foes" The Warriors have a nice history with Dire Wraiths, Spinx, those were recently featured and easily returnable.

Terrax is always an option....Super Nova Garthen Saal has been a villian before, and could be a factor. THe Warriors have fought alongside him before versus Dire Wraiths.

Another option could be a corrupted Tarcel...but thats not as exciting.
 
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I like the NW in space idea...maybe have Ultra Girl, Slapstick, Scarlet Spider (MVP clone), and Debrii join up with Gravity, Toro, Bucky (Rikki Barnes), and Spider-Girl as the Young Allies...
 
I figure I'll reply to a few things here, since there are only three of us in this topic and I don't want to clog what will already be a long post with quote boxes. I do appreciate the response to my challenge about a "hook" for a new NW series.

I'll start off by saying that while I can understand the frustration of seeing many characters who are "younger" get neglected for years, I don't begrudge Marvel from making new characters in series like AVENGERS ACADEMY or SECRET WARRIORS or what have you. You need to inject some fresh blood and ideas into the universe, and while all of the NEW WARRIORS may be considered "young", it is worth reminding that a lot of them are about as old as some of us, or older. Nova debuted in 1976. Vance Astro/Marvel Boy/Justice goes back to 1975. Namorita's even older, at 1972. Firestar's debut in 616 Marvel may have been in 1985, but she was naturally on NBC in '81. Even Speedball and Night-Thrasher hail from 1988 and 1989, respectively. Even second tier NW's like Rage and Turbo were created before Bill Clinton became President. They're only "young" in relation to characters like Captain America or the Fantastic Four. Hell, even Arana/Spider-Girl will be 7 years old as of this month. The point is that universes that don't make new characters - not just legacies - become stagnant. An edict of "unless the youngsters of the 70's and 80's get amped up, we can't make new characters for the 21st century" wouldn't benefit anyone overall. Just because the NW's may have been on a shelf for a while doesn't negate whatever AVENGERS ACADEMY does.

As for the "hook" ideas. I can say I'm not a fan of the "someone is killing off NW's one by one and it forces a reunion" idea. I don't think such a plot really screams uniqueness for the NW's as you could use that as justification for any team reuniting - even WATCHMEN employed it. More to the point, it reminds me too much of a prior NW volume one story in which gang members find out their secret identities and start targeting their loved ones. That's the story where Rage's grandma was murdered, forcing Dwayne Taylor to decide to later adopt him as a ward. Interestingly, Robbie Rider also had his finger cut off during that story, but few subsequent stories seem to feature that - he must have gotten a prosthetic at PEGASUS somewhere.

The "Let's Go Find Nova" hook, which I have seen suggested before when a NW relaunch has been discussed on hype, is a stronger premise for me. It does seem more personal, since Nova's friends would be quite motivated to do so if they learned he was dead. Two NW's - Darkhawk and the "new" Namorita, already know that, so that could be an easy launching point to calling in others. My biggest reservation is that such a thing would be a "cosmic" story and I never really saw the New Warriors as a "cosmic" team. They battled aliens, sure, but usually to defend Earth, not often venturing to space. However, as Nova was a regular cast member in NW's from 1989 until 1996 (and some of their relaunches after), many of his Xanadarian plots were featured in NEW WARRIORS and naturally involved the rest of the team - past rogues like Sphinx also were utilized there as well. Naturally, such a story would be a sequel to THANOS IMPERATIVE and that would mean playing with Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning's universe - and doing that well would limit an editor to a short list of writers. Few besides those two have dealt with "Marvel space" in a major way for years - C.B. Cebulski did briefly, and Keith Giffen is naturally exclusive to DC these days. However, considering that "DnA" have kicked ass on HEROES FOR HIRE, and that they had Nova reunite with Vance and Angelica for an issue of NOVA, there's nothing that suggests to me they couldn't write this story if they wanted to or were allowed to. I mean, the two of them have handled up to about 5 series in brief periods at some point. Their ANNIHILATORS material is fun but seems to lack the spark that the duo have with characters they seem more interested in.

One could imagine a quiet kick-starter for this plot could be Robbie finding that some of the "Nova Force" had returned, at least enough to give HIM some of that power back so he could fly in space and whatnot, which he would likely see as a sign. From there, he, Namorita, and Darkhawk could seek some sort of rescue mission. I'm still loathe to remove Justice and Speedball from an Avengers title, since that's the big franchise - even if they're on the D title (sales wise). Naturally, while Micky/Turbo has been adamant about remaining retired, she could be convinced to give "The Loners" a break to try to find a friend - especially if Donyell offers to rebuild her armor (which Ultron apparently damaged in RUNAWAYS). Night-Thrasher seems out of place in space to a degree, since there's no way to use a skateboard without gravity, but Donyell could see it as a chance to gain access to some alien technology to boost his own toys - he was willing to steal from villains for tech, after all. Naturally, you could have the other "active" NW's - Rage, Debrii, Scarlet Spider (MVP clone) and/or Ultra-Girl involved as well. Given that Ultra-Girl owes her powers to the Kree (like Ms. Marvel), her in a space story seems inevitable.

While I suppose some people may want a "founder reunion", Justice and Speedball could always appear in the debut issue as being notified or whatever. Perhaps they could use their connection to Hank Pym to, say, offer up some tech for the mission (and a promise of back-up should they need it). Along the same lines, Alex Power's current placement on the Future Foundation could also lead to a cameo for tech or clues from their resources. Justice & Speedball could always appear for some end chapter confrontation via a "Pym door" or something.

Which leaves Firestar. On the one hand, I don't mind the idea of her as a reluctant part-time heroine who wants to move on with college and cancer survival than being a superheroine again, beyond emergencies. On the other hand, unlike Justice & Speedball, she's not obligated to appear in an ongoing series and thus is perfectly free to appear elsewhere. Given that Namorita is a time-flung version and Donyell is still easing into being a leader, it could be Firestar's chance to shine - especially coming off of YOUTH IN REVOLT, where she is taking that role with the squad Prodigy assigned her to. She's been attached at the hip to Gravity for a while, but that wouldn't be a bad thing - Dwayne McDuffie's stories in BEYOND! and FANTASTIC FOUR had Gravity get involved in some space affairs, so he'd have more experience there than it would seem.

Garthan Saal did appear in NW before, so DnA could resolve that subplot with Tarcel, or have Sphinx return. Of course, there are other options. SECRET AVENGERS showed that Roxxon was willing to scope out Mars for things, so there could be other evil organizations going into space, too.
 
Ha, what would be cool is Night Thrasher dropping Robbie off a building to spark that power, ala NW Vol 1 Number 1.

I could live without Justice on the squad, while I have liked some of the development of these guys in ATI and Academy, I'm kinda just tired of Vance and Former Warriors in that role.

What would be nice, if he was replaced by his Alter Ego, Major Victory...who seems kinda bland since returning.

I had this idea of Worldmind deputizing the NW , as they have done before with the "champions of Xandar".

I was thinking the villians could be some one like Paibok and Terrax, some history there after Annhilation. Paibok has always been fairly cool IMO. I was basically of the Idea that Terrax and his group have been operating as pirates..stumble on to some Nova related artifact or dimensional crossing gear which is the key to bringing back Rich. I was also toying with the idea that by issue 3 or so the NW and RObbie are unable to rescue NOVA, but instead by mistake find and revive Genis-Vell, who in turn joins the warriors. In the end there , some "master" villian would stand revealed, I was thinking maybe some powerful entity from the cancerverse(or revived annhilation wave ?). Some epic fight goes down, and in the end Rich returns and kicks some butt.

"Nova Quest" would be the name, an homage to Starlin's classic Thanos Quest.

It does blow my mind how nobody seems to give a rat about the New Warriors, I mean the book was fairly popular.
 
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You know why there is no New Warriors reunion? Because even as a mini, it would sell like crap. We live in a day where most B-list characters: Luke Cage, Dr. Strange, Namor, Silver Surfer, She-Hulk, Iron Fist, etc. sell like crap.
 
I somewhat disagree...I think with the right Marketing, hype and direction, you could get 30-40k sales figures from a New Warriors mini done right.

Nova, GOTG, sold in that range for some time, A:TI and Acedemy even higher.

Even the last New Warriors series got that at some point, when it gradually slipped to the 15-20k range and lost a lot of readers due to the limitations and direction of that series.

Marvel will INVEST in alot of throwaway projects it has no intentions of breaking 30k sales.
 
Nova and Guardians of the Galaxy both came off of event titles, while comics sold a tad bit higher, the same with Avengers Academy and Avengers: The Initiative while also benefiting from being a part of the Avengers line. New Warriors also came off of an event while comics sold higher than they do now.

Today, not even events can save what are doomed to be low selling titles. The Heroic Age did not save Hawkeye & Mockingbird, Young Allies, and Atlas, and Fear Itself is doing very little to save Herc, Heroes for Hire, Black Panther: The Man Without Fear, and Iron Man 2.0.

As for Avengers Academy, it's not a high selling title, but steady sales due to a devoted following along with critical praise telling Marvel that it's worthwhile to invest in the book probably has more to do with saving it. It's very hard to replicate such success.
 
Thats why you give it the hook of being a New Warriors book (classic NW fans), Set it in space (cosmic fans), Feature Old Warriors involved (academy and ATI fans).

It's a decent start, for a mini..and If you set up something that works, you work off of that and go from there.

It's not that dissimiliar from the Vol 4 Hook of "throw in X-men fans"..There were clear problems with that book, as there have been clear problems with the hooks for NW since Volume 1.

Personally, the whole thing is a cycle. Just becuase "books have been canceled" does not mean you don't give them a shot again every once in awhile.

Honestly, if you told me Herc was a character worthy of having an ongoing last as long as it did under such economic conditions i would have not beleived it. I think Herc was case in point of why you give characters shots, and you have to keep going back.

If I were to flash back to , say 1998 , I'd have thought New Warriors was a better prospect for a succesful ongoing than Herc or Heroes for Hire.
 
I certainly understand hippie hunter's reservations. It is worth noting that Marvel still uses events to launch titles - even mini series starring lower-than-A-List franchises. FEAR ITSELF is being used to launch an 8 issue ALPHA FLIGHT series (9 issues if you count the .1 issue). If Marvel had attempted to launch it as an ongoing series, I'd be shocked if it lasted beyond 9 issues. SPIDER-ISLAND is the justification to launch another CLOAK & DAGGER mini series, and they've had a hard time catching on since the 80's. Even the last NEW WARRIORS series with the ex-X-Men springboarded off of THE INITIATIVE era. Even new X-Men books need events to springboard from.

The dilemma of launching anything new is a problem for both Marvel and DC. The Top 100 or 150 have lost sales consistently for at least the last 2 years overall, if not longer. The Great Recession is a major reason, with it limiting spare cash that many customers use for "entertainment" like comics as well as effecting the retailers that sell them. While some cities/states have many comic shops, others have very few - especially in the Midwest.

The NEW WARRIORS have returned in some form or another since their initial volume called it a run with issue 75 in 1996. Marvel rolled the dice less than three years later in 1999 with a second volume, which barely lasted 10-11 issues. A young Jay Faerber wrote it, and it seemed unable to keep an artist; fans especially hated the costume designs. After that, it was limbo until 2005, when Zeb Wells and Scottie Young did their "reality TV" mini and introduced Microbe, who'd end up with a short panel life. The "ex-X-Men" version from Kevin Grevioux launched in 2007 and ran 20 issues. However, I easily will concede that 2007 was almost a lifetime ago for comic book sales in general, much less the overall economy. By the time the recession started to hit full blast in 2008, NW Vol. 4 was basically done. However, the team's subplot would end up being picked up in AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, especially as Dan Slott started to wean himself off the title and Christos Gage took over. Naturally, some of the NW's characters are appearing in AVENGERS ACADEMY, FEAR ITSELF: THE HOME FRONT and FEAR ITSELF: YOUTH IN REVOLT these days.

I don't think a new NEW WARRIORS ongoing series would last long. But, we're in an age when a secondary WOLVERINE title struggles to last long. Given that Marvel has been willing to solicit mini series and/or ongoing series attempts based on franchises that are either just as rusty as NW or even more so, there's about as much chance of them returning as anyone. At the end of the year, Matt Fraction will offer another relaunch of THE DEFENDERS, a franchise that has been in a freezer since the mid 80's. They keep coming back in mini's, too.

And lord knows Marvel won't give up on Black Panther, Moon Knight, War Machine, or apparently Hercules these days. Same as DC doesn't give up on, say, Hawkman or Green Arrow.

The peak of popularity for the book was in the early 90's, back when NIGHT-THRASHER got his own spin-off series. By 1996 it was past it's prime, hence the desperate attempt to make it a Spider-Book (which was ironic as the Clone Saga was naturally destroying ASM and the other Spider-Books around then). Still, as I said, there are plenty of other franchises, characters, or series who was DOA before then who keep coming back. Marvel gave Brother Voodoo a series, for heaven's sakes, based solely on Bendis using him in NEW AVENGERS. Sure, anyone could predict it wouldn't last long (and it didn't), but Marvel still tried, still invested in 5-6 issues. Heck, ALPHA FLIGHT keeps getting relaunches too; the OMEGA FLIGHT series was also in 2005, only a year after Marvel tried a third volume revival.

Given that DnA couldn't keep HEROES FOR HIRE from crashing and burning, obviously hitching them and a "Nova Quest" hook for a NW return isn't a guarantee for gold. But if it is launched as a finite mini - say, 6-8 issues or so - that wouldn't matter. Plus, DnA are getting another stab at H4H with VILLAINS FOR HIRE.

Some of THANOSRULES' ideas are interesting. Having Major Victory from the last GOTG series sort of "sub" for Justice, who is busy at AA, sounds like a solid idea. He hardly did much in GOTG, so it could be interesting having him meet allies of his 616 counterpart's past. Naturally, the containment suit would put a dent on any romance, but who knows what he'd make of Firestar. I imagine that old Xanadarian spaceship that Richard found with Philo inside would still be around, and while some of the Nova Cadets would lack their powers, they might still be of use for tech support - Irani is a Rigellion, and they have powers without any Nova Force. I was never big on Genis-Vell, but I read little of him. Still, I wouldn't want to flood the book with characters - I'd still want to focus on the Warriors. Having Major Victory subbing in would provide that key space detail, though. I suppose if someone wanted Jack Flag to accompany them, I'd not be opposed. He practically vanished during THANOS IMPERATIVE.

Given that Lockjaw was able to find Black Bolt, with apparently ZERO effort (thanks, Hickman, sigh), this storyline isn't too out of left field.

While Paibok sounds cool, if DnA were going to do this, I'd not mind if they resolved that plot line with Saal and Tarcel. Ironically, this ties together in a way; in NEW WARRIORS #75, the Dire Wraith queen Volx actually is the one who killed Saal, and he transferred his powers to Richard as a parting gesture. So, it could be possible that the "Saal" who seemingly saved Tarcel was either Volx herself, who has appeared in ANNIHILATORS, or some other Dire Wraith with their own evil plans. Maybe they planned to either harvest Nova Force for their own means or maybe even replicate dead or dying Centurions from Ego's scheme to their own ends.
 
I tossed around the idea of the Wraiths, because they were featured in Annhilators i wondered if it were not too soon. Marvel has been actually using the Spaceknights, so they may be around to reclaim the Wraiths as there chief villians.

There is also the unresolved fact that Paibok and Terrax were last seen in Anhillation fleeing on a ship into skrull space.

The terrax that appeared in Hulk recently was, I beleive, a generic terrax plucked from a generic timeline.

I Think including Xenith the Strontian would also be cool. She could be a new New Warriors villian, Paibok himself is more or less unclaimed. Xenith has a great basis for use in anything Robbie Ryder and Nova Corps.
 
Here's my idea..becuase I have no life.
NEW WARRIORS: NOVA QUEST 8 issue mini series


Synopsis: The Series involves Robbie Ryders attempt to locate his brother after the events of The Thanos Imperative. A Nova Centurion ship with the crew of Robbie Ryder, Namorita, Major Victory, and a synthetic android housing the remainder of the World Mind essence Ko-Rel search the galaxy for traces of the Nova Force, and Nova prime.

They are not alone in their search, a crew of space rogues led by the seemingly sentient ship The Wartorn, are already ahead of the Ryder faction. The ship is crewed by Pai-Bok the Skrull, Star Thief , Xenith the Strontian, and Terrax.. They search for the Nova Force with plans to conquer the Universe with it’s power. Eventually, it is revealed that the ship is actually powered by the remains of the rebuilding and further corrupted Aegis.
Aegis reveals she took control of the Badoon warship and fused her recovering body to the heart of the ship. Aegis has been feeding off the corrupted Cancerverse remains of the Nova Force , and has been recovering energy, yet plummeting further into sinister motives.

Unbeknownst to the Wartorn crew, Robbie Ryder has planted Darkhawk on the alien ship and he posess as a Skrull crewman.
Robbie Ryder decides that he needs help in order to take on the ship, and he decides to stop by earth to enlist the aid of former new warriors. Night Thrasher , Firestar and Speed ball join his cause, as does Rage and Ultra Girl.

The Nova Force has been revealed to be bursting through back into our dimension via gateways similar to the fault, but smaller. The crew of The Wartorn seeks to accumulate artifacts that have broken through these pockets from an in-between dimension.

These Artifacts are fed to the heart of the Wartorn ship, which is powered by the recovering remains of the Promial God Aegis, which were both a product of these new faults.

Although she keeps her motives well guarded, Aegis has been further corrupted by the cancerverse and now seeks revenge and the creation of a new cancerverse in this reality.

Darkhawk has infiltrated the Wartorn and poses as a Skrull crewman. While attempting to radio his plans back to Robbie Ryder, he is discovered by the Strontian and a battle ensues. When Darkhawk is almost defeated by Xenith, Star Thief turns on The Wartorn and helps save Darkhawk. As the two flee the ship, Darkhawk radios for aid from a cloaked ship nearby. The Ship is piloted by the space pirate Starstalker who is a hired mercenary. The 3 escape, while Star Thief is seriously wounded. Darkhawk tells Robbie that he was right about the readings and that he thinks Rich may be still alive.

The Wartorn decides not to pursue as Aegis states the final source of Nova power is near. Xenith disobeys this command and barrels toward the Darkhawk ship, hell bent on revenge.

Meanwhile, the Nova ship speeds towards the rim. Night Thrasher retrofits Robbie Ryder with an old Nova Centurion outfit based on a model he had designed for his brother Rich, with some added enhancements learned from his time in the future and designing powers for de-powered mutants.

Xenith catches up with Darkhawk and his crew. A battle ensues, as Xenith appears to get the upper hand, the New Warriors arrive, with Robbie Ryder in charge. They blast Xenith, who crashes to a nearby gas giant planet, apparently mortally wounded.
Meanwhile The Wartorn approaches a new instance of the Nova Fault, and explains that she can stabilize the gap in order to suck the intact Nova Force from the gap. A current era Badoon Fleet arrives to investigate a errant distress signal still coming from the ship (sabatogue by Darkhawk). The Wartorn shows its full force and levels the Badoon Fleet.

During the battle, a mindless and corrupted form of NOVA emerges from the battle.

Around the universe, the major forces (races) now take notice of what is transpiring.

The New Warrior faction arrives, sans Starstalker who is upset at the damage to his ship, and without motive in the fight. More aberritions emerge from these new faults, and Corrupt NOVA begins to assault The Wartorn.

The New Warriors spilt into two groups, one to the heart of battle versus the new threat, and one group to The Wartorn. Robbie Ryder leads the group to confront NOVA, and Vance Astro leads a team to infiltrate the Wartorn.

As the Battle Rages, Robbie attempts to communicate to NOVA but there is no getting through. AEGIS builds power by absorbing the energies from the Fault. As the battle rages on, she breaks free of The Wartorn at last at near full power.

Corrupt NOVA now faces Aegis in battle.

Meanwhile, Ko-Rel works on a solution to shut the new Faults with leftover gravimetric bombs. She maintains protocols within her systems to re-harvest the NOVA force, if only she can filter out the corrupted energies.

The Battle between Aegis and NOVA rages, and the New Warriors feel confused at what to do. As AEGIS finally gets the upper hand, she absorbs the corrupt NOVA, and many of the left over Fault Aberreitions flow into her form. She surges with power.

Robbie tells Ko-Rel NOW, and she shoots the gravimetric bombs toward the still open faults. A huge explosion ensues. Aegis laughs and hums with newly acquired power. The Naked form of Richard Ryder is saved by Night Thrasher and Vance Astro. Vance Astro sacrifices himself and is consumed by one of the faults, the forms of the orginal GOTG are seen behind Vance as he waves , shouts something inspiring , and disappears back into the 31st century and his rightful(presumable) timeline.

KO-REL then activates the recall protocol. With AEGIS acting as a filter , her power is sucked away into the banks of the NOVA centurion ship. KO –REL explodes with power, as the full Nova force returns to her body and the ship.

We are shown depowered centurions throughout the galaxy returning to power.

KO-REL sends NOVA force to the NEW Warriors who begin to take on and defeat the giant , but still powerful AEGIS.
Pai-Bok and Terrax, escape with the Wartorn and flee the battle.

Meanwhile, Richard Ryder returns as a Man called NOVA, in his full and normal Nova Prime uniform. He leads a last effort against the Promial God Aegis. The Forces defeat Aegis and she is apparently destroyed.

Late to the Party, the Annihilators, Imperial Guard, Spaceknights of Galador, fleets of Kree origin arrive on the scene.
Celebration ensues as Rich is back. The last lines are remarked that Rich left friends behind in there, and his work is unfinished.

Characters
Villians
The Wartorn-31st century BADOON warship of extreme power, product of the fault from the same sources as major victory. Secretly, Aegis lies at the heart of the ship and has total control.
Pai-Bok- mercenary skrull hired by dominas, has been promised command of The Wartorn upon completion.
Xenith- Enlisted by Dominas with the promise of greater power and the elimination of the Nova force.
Terrax- Mercenary enlisted by Dominas, ally of Pai-bok secretly plans to steal the power.
Star Thief-Mercenary hired by Dominas, double agent for Darkhawk
Aegis – The Lady of All sorrows, seeks to replenish her power by absorbing the Cancerverse tainted Nova Force.
New Warriors
Robbie Ryder-Brother of Richard Ryder, eventually retrofitted with a prototype Dwayne Taylor Nova suit and Donyell Taylor mutant tech. Basically has the powers of an early 90s Iron Man.
Ko-Rel- Android body, worldmind remnant
Major Victory
Namorita
Night Thrasher
Rage
Ultra Girl
Darkhawk
Starstalker (briefly)
 
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