No diversity in Marvel

[sethypants]

I'm actually pretty upset that Marvel is cancelling X-23, their only female solo title, on top of that BP, their only minority solo title in their main line, Even Daken, their only LGBT solo character, also cancelled.
After these titles that are cancelled there would officially be no female or minorities or LGBT solo ongoing in Marvel main universe. On top of that, if you look at their solicitations, almost all the books are either Spider-man, Avengers or x-men. There is simply no diversity in terms of genre, gender or race.
I'm quite frankly applaud at how marvel could go on doing this and people just aren't so concerned with it. Look at how DC new 52 is going, there is diversity in terms of race, gender, sexual orientation and genre. I just have no idea why this is indeed happening to Marvel. On top of that the reduced pages and increased prices aren't helping either. It pushes customers like me further and further away.
Their solution as to combat new 52 is to double ship almost all their line. This is frankly pathetic to me.
Im not even complaining about them cancelling titles that are bad, but X-23 and black panther are one of their better titles, much better than avengers, but no they are getting the canned. I'm pretty furious right now and I'm all at DC at the moment because of Marvel's business ethics. Anyone else feels the same way?

 

[kguillou]

We all feel the same way. Marvel's marketing strategy is all topsy turvy right now. They're bleeding their readership dry with 3.99 books which suffocates the lower tier books like X-23. If they dont rethink their strategy soon, Marvel could be heading towards another 90's disaster.

 

[sethypants]

I thought I was the only one for a moment. The other forums that I usually post in had many marvel zombies defending and protecting saying things like they much rather double shipping cos they can read their books faster and since nobody is buying X-23, its only right that Marvel cancel it. Its outrageous cos I really feel that X-23 is one of their better books and yeah she'll be in AA but honestly its different now in a group setting and not written by Marjorie Liu.
I just feel like theres no place for diversity in Marvel anymore.

 

[DarKush]

I don't like the wave of cancellations either, but to be fair to Marvel I think DC is just now catching up to where Marvel has been (though neither company is great when it comes to diversity, though I would say that Marvel has been a little better in some areas and DC has been better in others). For example, I think DC has been much better regarding gender diversity (at least for primarily white females), they've often fielded solo series for Batgirl, Supergirl, Power Girl, and Wonder Woman for years now, and they've also had miniseries for other female characters, like Vixen and Huntress. But Marvel has been better in terms of racial/ethnic diversity, particularly in the area of solo series.

But let me repeat that I think both have a long way to go in terms of providing the proper support for diversity and in making sure their comics line has real diversity, not just non-white/non-male characters in the background, as sidekicks, or in supporting roles. Now it appears that Marvel is in the position where it has to catch up to DC.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm actually pretty upset that Marvel is cancelling X-23, their only female solo title, on top of that BP, their only minority solo title in their main line, Even Daken, their only LGBT solo character, also cancelled.
After these titles that are cancelled there would officially be no female or minorities or LGBT solo ongoing in Marvel main universe. On top of that, if you look at their solicitations, almost all the books are either Spider-man, Avengers or x-men. There is simply no diversity in terms of genre, gender or race.
I'm quite frankly applaud at how marvel could go on doing this and people just aren't so concerned with it. Look at how DC new 52 is going, there is diversity in terms of race, gender, sexual orientation and genre. I just have no idea why this is indeed happening to Marvel. On top of that the reduced pages and increased prices aren't helping either. It pushes customers like me further and further away.
Their solution as to combat new 52 is to double ship almost all their line. This is frankly pathetic to me.
Im not even complaining about them cancelling titles that are bad, but X-23 and black panther are one of their better titles, much better than avengers, but no they are getting the canned. I'm pretty furious right now and I'm all at DC at the moment because of Marvel's business ethics. Anyone else feels the same way?

I honestly don't give a **** about a character's race, sexual orientation, or gender. I just care about whether or not they are a good character independent of that.

 

[kguillou]

I thought I was the only one for a moment. The other forums that I usually post in had many marvel zombies defending and protecting saying things like they much rather double shipping cos they can read their books faster and since nobody is buying X-23, its only right that Marvel cancel it. Its outrageous cos I really feel that X-23 is one of their better books and yeah she'll be in AA but honestly its different now in a group setting and not written by Marjorie Liu.
I just feel like theres no place for diversity in Marvel anymore.

Its a double edged sword. I mean when sales are low on a book, the publisher has no choice but to cancel it. But on the other hand, theyre not exactly trying hard to promote their lower tier titles either. They just resort to cheap tricks like sticking black panther in Daredevil's book. They need to lower their main books to 2.99 and their lower tier titles to a 2.50 that way more people are inclined to buy them. But hell, what do we know right?

 

[SuperFerret]

I honestly don't give a **** about a character's race, sexual orientation, or gender. I just care about whether or not they are a good character independent of that.

This.

I'm beginning to feel that people who get all caught up in this stuff don't really like the characters themselves, just the ideas of the characters, in the way we all really like the idea of a character that's like ourselves.

 

[Godzilla2014]

This.

I'm beginning to feel that people who get all caught up in this stuff don't really like the characters themselves, just the ideas of the characters, in the way we all really like the idea of a character that's like ourselves.

Agreed.

 

[Shazam]

The free market decides what they put on the shelves...PERIOD. A company is not gonna keep a book on the shelf and lose their shirts on a book that no one wants to read.

We need to stop looking for "discrimination" under every rock.

Aquaman
Hawkman
Namor
Jonn Jonzz
The Spectre

Three heterosexual white males....a Martian....and a Ghost (the Spectre is a black man, too) .....none of them seem to be able to sustain a book for long periods.

It's all about dollars....just because I might like to see more of a certain thing doesn't mean it works economically.

That's all............

 

[Godzilla2014]

The free market decides what they put on the shelves...PERIOD. A company is not gonna keep a book on the shelf and lose their shirts on a book they no one wants to read.

We need to stop looking for "discrimination" under every rock.

Aquaman
Hawkman
Namor
Jonn Jonzz
The Spectre

Three heterosexual white males....a Martian....and a Ghost (the Spectre is a black man, too) .....none of them seem to be able to sustain a book for long periods.

It's all about dollars....just because I might like to see more of a certain thing doesn't mean it works economically.

That's all............

Agreed.

 

[BlackSymbiote]

I'm curious to know if sethypants put his money where his mouth is and actually bought the books he complains about being canceled?

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm curious to know if sethypants put his money where his mouth is and actually bought the books he complains about being canceled?

As do I.

 

[Max J Power]

I agree with everything bad everyone is saying about Marvel's business strategy these days (how could I not?), but I don't consider it a violation of business ethics for Marvel to cancel books that don't sell well, whether they're "diverse" or not.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The free market decides what they put on the shelves...PERIOD.

Not true in the case of comic characters that were created 50 to 70 years ago in a very different cultural climate. The majority of popular characters are white because they're the ones who were created back when 99% of all fictional characters in the US were white and they endured for all those decades, carving out a niche in the hearts of generations upon generations of readers. They're entrenched in fans' minds as the "big" characters. The few new characters who become popular enough to support series are the exception (by far), not the rule. So while I agree that characters' ethnicities or sexual orientations should not be their primary focus, I understand the impetus to even the playing field a bit now that we're in a cultural climate where characters of all races and creeds can be represented.

The characters should still be good on their merits as characters above all else, though. A gay character, for example, should be just that: a gay character, not a transparent neon sign flashing "I AM GAY" all the time so the publisher can pat itself on the back for appearing progressive.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I agree with everything bad everyone is saying about Marvel's business strategy these days (how could I not?), but I don't consider it a violation of business ethics for Marvel to cancel books that don't sell well, whether they're "diverse" or not.

Agreed.

Not true in the case of comic characters that were created 50 to 70 years ago in a very different cultural climate. The majority of popular characters are white because they're the ones who were created back when 99% of all fictional characters in the US were white and they endured for all those decades, carving out a niche in the hearts of generations upon generations of readers. They're entrenched in fans' minds as the "big" characters. The few new characters who become popular enough to support series are the exception (by far), not the rule. So while I agree that characters' ethnicities or sexual orientations should not be their primary focus, I understand the impetus to even the playing field a bit now that we're in a cultural climate where characters of all races and creeds can be represented.

The characters should still be good on their merits as characters above all else, though. A gay character, for example, should be just that: a gay character, not a transparent neon sign flashing "I AM GAY" all the time so the publisher can pat itself on the back for appearing progressive.

Agreed.

 

[Shazam]

Not true in the case of comic characters that were created 50 to 70 years ago in a very different cultural climate. The majority of popular characters are white because they're the ones who were created back when 99% of all fictional characters in the US were white and they endured for all those decades, carving out a niche in the hearts of generations upon generations of readers. They're entrenched in fans' minds as the "big" characters. The few new characters who become popular enough to support series are the exception (by far), not the rule. So while I agree that characters' ethnicities or sexual orientations should not be their primary focus, I understand the impetus to even the playing field a bit now that we're in a cultural climate where characters of all races and creeds can be represented.

The characters should still be good on their merits as characters above all else, though. A gay character, for example, should be just that: a gay character, not a transparent neon sign flashing "I AM GAY" all the time so the publisher can pat itself on the back for appearing progressive.

Is it okay to disagree with the moderator?

I'm talking sales...not skin color or who a character sleeps with. And even if say a character like Superman (70 + years) has slow sales, his name, his movies, his cartoons, his T-shirts, his DVDs, etc...etc...warrant them keeping his book alive. Why? Because he's still making money for them from other sources. And the book will make another spike at some point.

These companies are all about the mighty dollar. If millions of people are buying the character's books, it will live. If not....it's a goner.

My two cents...

 

[kguillou]

Well i dont know, this may never happen, but theoretically, if say, Action Comics, were selling like 18,000 units, I still believe DC would cancel it. Or say if Amazing Spider-man ever sold that badly, I think marvel would cancel it. Once a comic gets below a certain point, the company is losing money by keeping it in production. But i dunno, i could be wrong, hopefully we will never reach the point where A list titles are selling that abysmally.

 

[Specter313]

Of course they would cancel them. If they're losing money on something, it's gonna go eventually. If they're more established, it just might mean that they'll be more towards the top of the list trying to get a reboot down the line.

And it's not like big titles haven't been at the brink of cancellation before. Back in the day, the X-Men were at the end of their rope when, and this fits with the tone of the original issue as well, a new more diverse team was introduced with some great stories and creators behind them and brought them to the top of the company.

It's so much more than just putting someone out there who fills a few minority blocks and expecting them to succeed just because the current climate makes them more acceptable. It's hitting the right combination of good characterization, good creators, good stories, and probably above all else, a readership that will find something in these that pulls them in and makes them want to come back for more over and over again and get others into it as well. Lets face it, in this day and age when readership is so far down than it used to be, it's going to be very hard to make someone new come along and succeed to the level of what we expect with the classic greats, and maybe something that we'll never see again, irregardless of sex, race, sexuality, etc.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Of course they would cancel them. If they're losing money on something, it's gonna go eventually. If they're more established, it just might mean that they'll be more towards the top of the list trying to get a reboot down the line.

And it's not like big titles haven't been at the brink of cancellation before. Back in the day, the X-Men were at the end of their rope when, and this fits with the tone of the original issue as well, a new more diverse team was introduced with some great stories and creators behind them and brought them to the top of the company.

It's so much more than just putting someone out there who fills a few minority blocks and expecting them to succeed just because the current climate makes them more acceptable. It's hitting the right combination of good characterization, good creators, good stories, and probably above all else, a readership that will find something in these that pulls them in and makes them want to come back for more over and over again and get others into it as well. Lets face it, in this day and age when readership is so far down than it used to be, it's going to be very hard to make someone new come along and succeed to the level of what we expect with the classic greats, and maybe something that we'll never see again, irregardless of sex, race, sexuality, etc.

I think Spawn was close to hitting it big like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man, wasn't he?

 

[RockSP]

These companies are all about the mighty dollar. If millions of people are buying the character's books, it will live. If not....it's a goner.

No (American) comic character is selling millions of copies.

 

[SuperFerret]

Well i dont know, this may never happen, but theoretically, if say, Action Comics, were selling like 18,000 units, I still believe DC would cancel it. Or say if Amazing Spider-man ever sold that badly, I think marvel would cancel it. Once a comic gets below a certain point, the company is losing money by keeping it in production. But i dunno, i could be wrong, hopefully we will never reach the point where A list titles are selling that abysmally.

Amazing Spider-Man and Action Comics are two of their respective company's flagship titles, they won't ever be cancelled due to low sales. If low sales for them ever occurred, there would definitely be a big shaking up of things, maybe a relaunch with a new #1 and a new creative team, but no cancellation.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I see some diversity with Marvel where you don't.

Fear Itself: The Fearless

This comic features two strong females on opposite sides: Valkyrie and the Red Skull's Daughter, Sin.

Avengers Academy

A pretty diverse cast.

Anita Blake

It might not be 616; but, Marvel has been putting out these books for a long time now.

Jane Austen titles

These are some of the only books that Marvel still puts out from their Classic Literature line of books.

Dorothy and the Land Of Oz

A main female lead in most of these books, too. Marvel is very committed to these adaptations, too.

Ultimate Spider-Man

Can't get more diverse than killing off Peter Parker and switching him with a young African America kid.

Generation Hope

Strong female lead...and, as of today, still slated to be coming out.

Scarlet

A very good Icon book by Bendis.


Thing is, many books have diversity; but, it's just that they are team books, which Marvel is big on right now. There just aren't a lot of solo titles out there. And, face it, if the public doesn't buy them when Marvel puts them out, Marvel isn't going to keep them going. (And, this isn't anything new. Since I started reading comics in the 80's, these books have always gotten cancelled.)

 

[Will Nolte]

Ultimate Spider-Man

Can't get more diverse than killing off Peter Parker and switching him with a young African America kid.

He is half African American and half Hispanic...oh and didn't they even say he might be gay? The problem is with Miles, they are using that as the gimmick to sell the book, instead of concentrating on a good, ORIGINAL, story. You can try to claim Miles Morales is original, but in the end, making him Spidey is not original, especially when the original Spidey was killed off. Didn't anyone learn from this when both DC and Marvel failed at multiple attempts to kill off/cripple/"misplace" mainstream heroes in the 90s and replace them with "hipper" versions?

What happened to coming up with new original concepts, writing a good story, and letting that drive the character's popularity?

 

[Godzilla2014]

I see some diversity with Marvel where you don't.

Fear Itself: The Fearless

This comic features two strong females on opposite sides: Valkyrie and the Red Skull's Daughter, Sin.

Avengers Academy

A pretty diverse cast.

Anita Blake

It might not be 616; but, Marvel has been putting out these books for a long time now.

Jane Austen titles

These are some of the only books that Marvel still puts out from their Classic Literature line of books.

Dorothy and the Land Of Oz

A main female lead in most of these books, too. Marvel is very committed to these adaptations, too.

Ultimate Spider-Man

Can't get more diverse than killing off Peter Parker and switching him with a young African America kid.

Generation Hope

Strong female lead...and, as of today, still slated to be coming out.

Scarlet

A very good Icon book by Bendis.


Thing is, many books have diversity; but, it's just that they are team books, which Marvel is big on right now. There just aren't a lot of solo titles out there. And, face it, if the public doesn't buy them when Marvel puts them out, Marvel isn't going to keep them going. (And, this isn't anything new. Since I started reading comics in the 80's, these books have always gotten cancelled.)

Agreed.

He is half African American and half Hispanic...oh and didn't they even say he might be gay? The problem is with Miles, they are using that as the gimmick to sell the book, instead of concentrating on a good, ORIGINAL, story. You can try to claim Miles Morales is original, but in the end, making him Spidey is not original, especially when the original Spidey was killed off. Didn't anyone learn from this when both DC and Marvel failed at multiple attempts to kill off/cripple/"misplace" mainstream heroes in the 90s and replace them with "hipper" versions?

What happened to coming up with new original concepts, writing a good story, and letting that drive the character's popularity?

This. Did we really need to kill off Peter Parker for Miles Morales to be introduced?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I see some diversity with Marvel where you don't.

Fear Itself: The Fearless

This comic features two strong females on opposite sides: Valkyrie and the Red Skull's Daughter, Sin.

Avengers Academy

A pretty diverse cast.

Anita Blake

It might not be 616; but, Marvel has been putting out these books for a long time now.

Jane Austen titles

These are some of the only books that Marvel still puts out from their Classic Literature line of books.

Dorothy and the Land Of Oz

A main female lead in most of these books, too. Marvel is very committed to these adaptations, too.

Ultimate Spider-Man

Can't get more diverse than killing off Peter Parker and switching him with a young African America kid.

Generation Hope

Strong female lead...and, as of today, still slated to be coming out.

Scarlet

A very good Icon book by Bendis.


Thing is, many books have diversity; but, it's just that they are team books, which Marvel is big on right now. There just aren't a lot of solo titles out there. And, face it, if the public doesn't buy them when Marvel puts them out, Marvel isn't going to keep them going. (And, this isn't anything new. Since I started reading comics in the 80's, these books have always gotten cancelled.)

X-Factor

A black French woman is one of the strongest personalities in the series, another woman is co-leading the team, and a central plot for the past year has been the very unconventional love affair between two men.