No diversity in Marvel

[Thundercrack85]

The real issue is that most of their "diverse' characters aren't all that interesting. A lot of the female heroes are just knock offs of their male counterparts. X-23 being a literal female clone of Wolverine.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

True, a lot of them do have such beginnings. But does that really matter? She-Hulk is easily more interesting than the Hulk at this point. X-23 developed into a decent character in her own right, I'm told. Doesn't what's done with the characters matter more than their origins? Hell, you can even separate it from the diversity issue, in fact: Deadpool's synonymous with clever, absurdist humor in comics thanks to Joe Kelly; is that somehow invalid just because he started out as another brain fart from Rob Liefeld?

 

[Thundercrack85]

True, a lot of them do have such beginnings. But does that really matter? She-Hulk is easily more interesting than the Hulk at this point. X-23 developed into a decent character in her own right, I'm told. Doesn't what's done with the characters matter more than their origins? Hell, you can even separate it from the diversity issue, in fact: Deadpool's synonymous with clever, absurdist humor in comics thanks to Joe Kelly; is that somehow invalid just because he started out as another brain fart from Rob Liefeld?

Sometimes, but those characters are rare, and most will always be in the shadow of the original (I doubt Miles Morales will ever be more popular than Peter Parker). Origins are important.

The male to female switch is rather lazy. And the characters usually reflect that. Though I'll concede that some writers can turn them into popular characters. But that's usually in spite of their origins. Why not just have a character with a good, original origin story?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Because having those perennial favorite characters as touchstones helps readers latch onto otherwise new characters. Or so the conventional wisdom goes. If you can introduce and promote a character in Amazing Spider-Man before spinning them off into their own series, for example, their chances of success are usually demonstrably higher than a totally original character who starts off whole hog at #1 in their own series. Fans of neverending fiction seem to crave the familiar--even those who crow about how boring it is. I myself have found a lot of mainstream superhero comics boring for years now, but I'll freely admit that I'm likelier to check out a new character if they spin out of Avengers or Thor because I already know I like those franchises.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That's true. But when Wolverine first showed up in the Hulk, he wasn't a Hulk wannabe. He had his own story and powers.

The other issue is that they often make diverse characters for the sake of making diverse characters. Tokens Remember Northstar? Everyone (into comics) knows he's gay. What his powers and backstory are, not so much.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, yeah, that's where what I mentioned about the characters being good on the merits of their characterization comes in. It seems to me like it'd actually be worse to have a terribly shallow caricaturization of whatever group I belong to representing me in fiction than no representation at all.

 

[Will Nolte]

I have no problem with a character being introduced in another book. Thunderbolts were introduced in The Incredible Hulk, most of The New Warriors were established characters from other places that worked great together as a team. The Amazing Spider-Man (and any other Spider-Man book for that matter) has spawned numerous great characters, like Cardiac, Prowler, and many more. The thing is, none of those characters were mere copies of the character who the book belonged to.

Miles Morales is a copy that they threw a gimmick on. To me that is just lazy writing. Bendis has written some great stories in the past, but I think his best stories are now behind him when he phones in crap like that.

 

[Shazam]

No (American) comic character is selling millions of copies.

Dude...I wasn't talking in "literal" terms....

Okay.....I mean turning a PROFIT. Okay? Selling enuff to make money...

 

[DrCosmic]

This, unfortunately is not news. While there is a climate for more diversification in media today, it is still dominated by white male culture as it was in the 60s when the 'big' characters were conceived.

Minorities, of any stripe, are going to be in team books, where the dominant culture can still visually identify with other leads. While minority books can sell, making them do so takes more work, because part of the fantasy of the genre, that visual identification, isn't there for the masses. Very rarely does a black hero or a female hero or an LGBT hero appear in the average reader's list of favorite characters, but they'll read the book *if* its good, and also jump ship sooner if its bad.

 

[kguillou]

I think, and i can definitely be wrong about this, the only minority to really hit it big was Spawn. That was an absolute anomaly. But then again, no one really cares about him now so...

 

[sethypants]

I feel like its not just about minorities, its also female characters, LGBT characters and other diverse genres. Im largely a DC comics reader, but X-23 has really piqued my interest in other female superheroes, I thought X-23 was one of the better titles imo and I loved the sorta manga styled drawing in X-23. I'm just extremely sad to see X-23 go. Laura is probably one of my favourite if not favourite female characters.

 

[WolfCypher]

I think, and i can definitely be wrong about this, the only minority to really hit it big was Spawn. That was an absolute anomaly. But then again, no one really cares about him now so...

And in an ironic twist, Spawn changed from a black dead guy to a living white guy

Well anyway, what is Marvel to do? They cancel titles that don't sell, or renumber their titles, or kick out the main character for a new lead anytime sells drop too low. This has been going on for years. I honestly don't know how to feel about Marvel's upcoming approach. I understand why so many titles are getting axed and why their pumping out more of what is selling, but I'm not particularly sure where I'll be with these changes. I was actually looking forward to that She-Hulk/Thing/A-Bomb/Monsters-that-smash+Beast ensemble comic (Smash or Destroyed) much more than more ASM (and I love Slott's Spider-Man) and Avengers.

Just my two cents. I honestly don't harp too much on sex and race. In fact, I didn't even noticed that a black title, a girl title, and a gay (?) (Daken's gay?) title being cancelled until I read through this topic. Interesting...

 

[Shazam]

I think, and i can definitely be wrong about this, the only minority to really hit it big was Spawn. That was an absolute anomaly. But then again, no one really cares about him now so...

Spawn??? ...HE DIDN'T "LOOK" LIKE A MINORITY.

I didn't even know he was black, until the movie hit.

Plus he's disfigured too....

 

[Themanofbat]

Sometimes, but those characters are rare, and most will always be in the shadow of the original (I doubt Miles Morales will ever be more popular than Peter Parker). Origins are important.

You "doubt" this?

It's a no-brainer... Peter Parker will always be the ONE.

 

[DrCosmic]

Just my two cents. I honestly don't harp too much on sex and race. In fact, I didn't even noticed that a black title, a girl title, and a gay (?) (Daken's gay?) title being cancelled until I read through this topic. Interesting...

Most people don't. Unless you are invested in the issue, why would they?

It is interesting to note their strategy in selling what sells most is one which functions to de-diversify their audience, not just in creed or color, but in taste as well. Instead of growing new readers who might be interested in less popular books, they sell to those who are already buying the big comics. Interesting.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

.
Just my two cents. I honestly don't harp too much on sex and race. In fact, I didn't even noticed that a black title, a girl title, and a gay (?) (Daken's gay?) title being cancelled until I read through this topic. Interesting...

what?!? and after these years you thought the Black in my name was cause i was JAPANESE!??! hahahahaha!
oh and i dont see anything wrong with being a *TOKEN!!
...ahem sorry carry on!

* that was a joke its always been a jab at hannah barbera and their scooby doo mystery solving asses for not really trying to add diversity to the super-friends but instead inserting cardboard cut out ethic characters. if you are going to do that i would prefered the team had stayed all Caucasian, instead of that Booo&^%$!

 

[Will Nolte]

, and a gay (?) (Daken's gay?)

Suposedly he is either Bi- or Non-sexual...I could have cared less about who he wanted to do the dirty with.

 

[storyteller]

Okay Ultimate Spiderman was never ever stated to be gay. Someone on this forum started that rumor and kept it going. I think marvel is wise enough to know people will raise an eyebrow at a trifecta. I don't see it as any more a gimmick then you know a man who has spider powers. Ultimate comics is where Marvel can try new things without having to resort to a reset. Daken will screw anything. He has sex with women and men but only for pleasure and those who further his goals. There is a no supposed, he has been depicted having sex with both genders.

The lack of diversity of marvel right now is due to the past where most writers/artists just made white characters.

 

[chamber-music]

The real issue is that most of their "diverse' characters aren't all that interesting. A lot of the female heroes are just knock offs of their male counterparts. X-23 being a literal female clone of Wolverine.

This is what I've said before. Alot if female or minority characters are just a different race version of a white male counterpart.

I like characters like Steel, John Stewart (Green Lantern), War Machine, Ultimate Spider-Man (Miles), Aqualad, Mister Teriffic, Isaiah Bradley (Black Captain America), Black Goliath and so on but I wish they were orginal superheroes not based off a successful white version of another superhero