Non-Americans : Please Discuss Your Healthcare

[Franklin Richards]

I'm an American. I'm also a Liberal. I believe that healthcare should be universal. American Healthcare is currently ranked 37. Just above Slovenia. Opponents of Healthcare Reform in America say that your countries healthcare is sub-par. They describe long waits and escalated taxes.


I want to hear real stories from you. Tell me the truth, Non-Americans. How is your healthcare? Do you pay an ungodly amount of taxes? Do you have to wait forever? Can you choose your own doctors? Are there death panels?


Talk to us.

 

[Hound55]

Rest of the world: "Bollocks. We'll be keeping out of this lest the US see fit to 'liberate' us of our MediCare."

I'll probably get flamed for that, but meh... I've tried to keep my nose out of the political threads since you get wide numbers of people claiming you have no idea what you're talking about when you come from another country...



*Disclaimer: Not that I've received that from here yet.

 

[StorminNorman]

A fine thread idea executed poorly.

 

[chaseter]

US is ranked 37th from a 2000 WHO study that only takes into account 5 variables.

The US is ranked as the most responsive.

Fairness of Financial Contribution's top leader went to Colombia. Colombia achieved top rank because someone with a low income might pay the equivalent of one dollar per year for health care, while a high- income individual pays 7.6 dollars.

Overall Level of Health is pretty much life expectancy. The US isn't in the top in life expectancy but does that solely have to do with health care? The average American has a poor diet and does not exercise on a regular basis and among other things like auto related deaths are dramatically higher than a country like Morocco. The fact that Americans are not flocking to Morocco to get health care is a good indication that the U.S.'s 37th ranking is inaccurate.

Distribution of Health in the Populations measures as it said, distribution. If a country has only 10 million people, chances are that their health overall will be better as comparable to a country with 300 million or even 1 billion people because the distribution of wealth increases.

Distribution of financing is where we need work. We do have a large number of people that do not have access to healthcare but that doesn't decrease the quality or the responsiveness of the system. So, saying that the US's Health Care system is inadequate or 37th is a bit unfounded.



1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei


So, when you think of great healthcare, do you think of Colombia, Andorra, Israel, Chile, and even Dominica? Please quit using this outdated, biased, and scientifically inaccurate study to cite as a reason for an opinion.



However, I like the idea of this thread. I am very interested to hear from others outside of the US.

 

[Hound55]

Myself:

In Australia we have Medicare as our public health plan, this covers a great deal of general basic required treatment.

I also have Private Health which will pay for the stuff that the public health system doesn't see as necessary.

It IS possible to get by in this country WITHOUT private health, but if you earn over a certain amount it pretty much makes sense to have private health for tax reasons and so forth.

Fortunately our government has understood how necessary both public and private options are in creating an efficient health care system, and it appears that finally the US may have as well... or at least those in power.

You need the private sector there to ease the pressure on the health system, like schooling, otherwise it will get lazy and cost tax payers more than necessary.

You need the public sector there to prevent the private sector from turning corrupt, as I would describe the case to be when the self-proclaimed best health care nation has services which usually make their presence in third world nations having to cater to the poor.

 

[Hound55]

Overall Level of Health is pretty much life expectancy. The US isn't in the top in life expectancy but does that solely have to do with health care? The average American has a poor diet and does not exercise on a regular basis and among other things like auto related deaths are dramatically higher than a country like Morocco. The fact that Americans are not flocking to Morocco to get health care is a good indication that the U.S.'s 37th ranking is inaccurate.

Really? You don't think that the difficulty to actually get to these other locations factors in..?

Maybe not Morocco, but let's try going down one slot.

Canada, rated 30 and beneath Morocco. There have been a lot of cases of people crossing the border to Canada to take advantage of their health care system.

Distribution of Health in the Populations measures as it said, distribution. If a country has only 10 million people, chances are that their health overall will be better as comparable to a country with 300 million or even 1 billion people because the distribution of wealth increases.

You also have to factor in the resources though... countries with less people are also going to have considerably less doctors because they're likely to be in less of a position to train them. So they have to do what they can with the resources at their disposal and try to function more efficiently.

The thing is, the US has most likely got the best doctors in the world... but they're being hog-tied by how crappy your health care system is.

At present its not designed around efficiency, its designed around bringing in maximum profit to the insurance companies.

The fact that you're as high as 38, in my opinion, speaks wonders about the abilities of your doctors.

 

[chaseter]

I hear about Americans going to Canada and Mexico for cheap drugs. But, I hear about Canadians coming down here for serious health care. The US is also at the forefront of medical advances. The US has the best quality and the best responsiveness of any other country. I don't think the 37th ranking of health care here is warranted.

We do have a large number of uninsured and that needs to change but it doesn't reflect the quality of health care here.

When a doctor is under a private system, he works harder and gives better care to his patients because of competition than those that work under universal healthcare.

Also...how does an American get Canadian health care when he has no card????

 

[Kurosawa]

A fine thread idea executed poorly.

I don't really see a flaw in how he asked for people's responses. He asked if it was efficient or if it wasn't.

 

[Hound55]

I hear about Americans going to Canada and Mexico for cheap drugs. But, I hear about Canadians coming down here for serious health care. The US is also at the forefront of medical advances. The US has the best quality and the best responsiveness of any other country. I don't think the 37th ranking of health care here is warranted.

The 37th ranking is DESPITE the responsiveness and the quality of your doctors... largely due to the system in place.

We do have a large number of uninsured and that needs to change but it doesn't reflect the quality of health care here.

Because the gap between rich and poor is epic in your country...

When a doctor is under a private system, he works harder and gives better care to his patients because of competition than those that work under universal healthcare.

I don't buy that.

As opposed to the doctors who don't give a **** about their patients in the public sector?

Nup. I don't buy that at all.

And that's before you factor in the doctors who get their hands tied by private health companies suddenly deciding that things shouldn't be covered... in which case they just straight up don't get done.

Also...how does an American get Canadian health care when he has no card????

There have been cases of folk getting health care regardless... because *SHOCK* the hospitals there don't sit on patients until they find out whether or not they have private coverage.

The only real exception to that in the US is in the ER. Short of that, you aren't covered, go home and save yourself the trouble.

 

[chaseter]

I thought in Canada, when you went to the hospital, you had to show your card?

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'm gonna chime in since I'm an immigrant and have seen both. Frankly I'd rather an US doctor for any major medical procedure but I will absolutely stay the **** away from any doctor for anything minor. It costs too much and docs here write out precriptions that will keep you addicted and coming back for more for the rest of your life. Also being fat over here is kinda just accepted where in a lot of places it wouldn't be so easy to become a fat lazy ass and people are ok with that. Acceptance is a beautiful thing, but not for everything.

Insurance and healthcare is too high and they typically deny any claim and make a sick person go through far more then they should just to be reinbursed for treatment already covered. I have an ex girlfriend over here that was in a major accident five years ago, ****ed up her back, it wasn't her fault and the other person's insurance was supposed to cover the operations. Well they never paid, she's in massive debt for the issue from medical bills which have acrued interest. They've recently given her lawyers (which she had to get) an offer to pay half. Her lawyers are taking the company to court and say this could very well be resolved as speedily as two to three short years.

^that **** would not happen in dublin. So I'm mixed on healthcare in so many ways. These docs are the best and have the best ****, but they rarely do what's in the best interest of the patient and they never make it easy. I can see why the US in no way deserves to be in the top ten of any list. If you're ****ing rich you're set (but you will have to take a massive dossage of drugs for the rest of your life) but otherwise it might be better to throw out your id and go into the hospital as an illegal immigrant cause you'll be treated faster and have less of a hassle while in all honest getting better care because they don't get a profit for forcing unnessary **** down your throat and X-rays, X-rays, X-rays all around (which most people don't realize just how harmful those are to the body).

Rant over....for now...

 

[Kurosawa]

That's why a lot of people without coverage go to the ER in the US...therefore raising prices since a lot of them go to the ER then never pay.

 

[chaseter]

The 37th ranking is DESPITE the responsiveness and the quality of your doctors... largely due to the system in place.

That is why it is wrong. It should have been a study on Health Care Coverage, not Quality of Overall Health Care.

Because the gap between rich and poor is epic in your country...

Because we aren't Socialist

I don't buy that.

It is common sense. Private sector supports competition and competition increases quality.

As opposed to the doctors who don't give a **** about their patients in the public sector?

Why would a doctor that will see patients regardless need to go above and beyond his contractual obligations? He isn't going to make more money so why work harder?

And that's before you factor in the doctors who get their hands tied by private health companies suddenly deciding that things shouldn't be covered... in which case they just straight up don't get done.

Doctors don't decide what should be covered or what shouldn't be, insurance companies do and we do need reform for that.

There have been cases of folk getting health care regardless... because *SHOCK* the hospitals there don't sit on patients until they find out whether or not they have private coverage.

You answered that yourself below.

The only real exception to that in the US is in the ER. Short of that, you aren't covered, go home and save yourself the trouble.

People can get care here no matter what. They have to visit the crazy ER and wait which as you said is comparable to your system. Do I want that when I got visit the clinic? No thanks.

 

[Franklin Richards]

While watching Sicko, I heard that UK doctors get more money for talking their patients in healthier lifestyles. i.e. eating better... stopping smoking... things like that.


Is that true UK?

 

[chaseter]

While watching Sicko, I heard that UK doctors get more money for talking their patients in healthier lifestyles. i.e. eating better... stopping smoking... things like that.


Is that true UK?

That sounds like a good idea I actually like that. I won't watch Sicko because it is biased vomit but if that is true then I wouldn't mind seeing something like that. We already have incentives for teachers, why not incentives for doctors?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Surprisingly alot of Conservatives liked Sicko when it came out. You should prolly give it a watch. If nothing else to dispute it.

 

[chaseter]

Surprisingly alot of Conservatives liked Sicko when it came out. You should prolly give it a watch. If nothing else to dispute it.

I already know our Insurance companies are corrupt out the whazoo so I don't need Michael Moore to tell me that while slipping in some biased political agenda.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Why would a doctor that will see patients regardless need to go above and beyond his contractual obligations? He isn't going to make more money so why work harder?

Ok, this I kinda take issue with. Doctors take this oath and frankly to be a doctor and have that level of control you have added responsibility so if any doctor has a jaintor's mentality about work and what they need to put in, they need to stay the **** out of doctorin'.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I already know our Insurance companies are corrupt out the whazoo so I don't need Michael Moore to tell me that while slipping in some biased political agenda.

actually we don't need Michael Moore for anything other than to boost hot dog sales.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Ok, this I kinda take issue with. Doctors take this oath and frankly to be a doctor and have that level of control you have added responsibility so if any doctor has a jaintor's mentality about work and what they need to put in, they need to stay the **** out of doctorin'.

Well... like I said, doctors in the UK have incentives. Healthier clientele = More money.

 

[Kurosawa]

While watching Sicko, I heard that UK doctors get more money for talking their patients in healthier lifestyles. i.e. eating better... stopping smoking... things like that.


Is that true UK?

I know that's one of the first things they suggest here, but all they can do is suggest it...and I could suggest that.

 

[chaseter]

Ok, this I kinda take issue with. Doctors take this oath and frankly to be a doctor and have that level of control you have added responsibility so if any doctor has a jaintor's mentality about work and what they need to put in, they need to stay the **** out of doctorin'.

Of course they aren't going to do something to lose their license, but why would they work harder without payoffs for it? What is going to make that now salary paid doctor work 20 extra hours in a week? What is going to make them give me their phone number in case I have pain? I am sure doctor's in Canada do a good job, but the doctor's here have reasons (MONEY!) to go above and beyond to provide a higher level of care.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Not everyone is motivated by cash. Some people do it because it's the right thing to do.

 

[chaseter]

Not everyone is motivated by cash. Some people do it because it's the right thing to do.

I wish everyone was like that. Money makes the world go around, not love

But, that is more of that Utopian thinking that can never be achieved.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Ok. We get it. You think people are evil.



Now let's get back to Non-American Healthcare.