OFFICIAL: Best CBM of 2014 thread (so far)

[DeadPresident]

Nope. He's their money maker. The same way Marvel has engineered their universe to RDJ being the Jesus Christ with all his lesser disciples following him on his adventures.

Wolverine is far and away the most popular X-men character, and Fox have kept playing into that. He's the only one that's gotten two solo movies, try solo movies for Storm, Jean or Cyclops and they'll bomb. They'd have to include a brilliantly written story and every bit of character fan service to get an X-men movie sans Wolverine to work.

 

[See Cap Run]

Nope. He's their money maker. The same way Marvel has engineered their universe to RDJ being the Jesus Christ with all his lesser disciples following him on his adventures.

With all due respect, that's so very far from the truth: the MCU has been far less dependent for its success on RDJ than Fox has been on Hugh Jackman as evidenced by the success of CA:TWS GOTG and to a lesser extent Thor: The Dark World. Guardians of the Galaxy has now out-grossed every MCU film sans Iron Man 3 and The Avengers.

Hell, in The Avengers, Cap had even had more screen time than Iron Man and none of the characters got shafted to benefit Iron Man which is something that can't be said for Wolverine in the first three X-Men films. Though to be fair to Fox, X-Men has recently become less dependent on Wolverine with both First Class and DOFP

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

Guardians is at 30

 

[See Cap Run]

That's good news I think! It's at 30 what?

Edit: Oh, 30 votes! Nice!

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

That's good news I think! It's at 30 what?

Just happy to see it still getting votes

 

[Shikamaru]

With all due respect, that's so very far from the truth: the MCU has been far less dependent for its success on RDJ than Fox has been on Hugh Jackman as evidenced by the success of CA:TWS GOTG and to a lesser extent Thor: The Dark World. Guardians of the Galaxy has now out-grossed every MCU film sans Iron Man 3 and The Avengers.

Hell, in The Avengers, Cap had even had more screen time than Iron Man and none of the characters got shafted to benefit Iron Man which is something that can't be said for Wolverine in the first three X-Men films. Though to be fair to Fox, X-Men has recently become less dependent on Wolverine with both First Class and DOFP

Exactly. And even back during Phase 1 when Iron Man was literally their only record-breaking character, he was still nowhere near Fox's Wolverine in terms of studio dependence.

 

[DeadPresident]

With all due respect, that's so very far from the truth: the MCU has been far less dependent for its success on RDJ than Fox has been on Hugh Jackman as evidenced by the success of CA:TWS GOTG and to a lesser extent Thor: The Dark World. Guardians of the Galaxy has now out-grossed every MCU film sans Iron Man 3 and The Avengers.

Hell, in The Avengers, Cap had even had more screen time than Iron Man and none of the characters got shafted to benefit Iron Man which is something that can't be said for Wolverine in the first three X-Men films. Though to be fair to Fox, X-Men has recently become less dependent on Wolverine with both First Class and DOFP

I'm not sure, we might have to agree to disagree. Perhaps Wolverine "carries" X-men more, but I feel like the characterization of the other Avenger's is watered down to elevate RDJ's Stark over the others. Thor and Hulk are reduced to glorified action sequences and Cap is the only guy who has some decent dialogue - only to get one-linered by Stark over being too much of a boy scout. And now Iron Man is in Cap 3...? I lost my respect for the MCU after Avengers, where everything happened at Tony Stark's calling and the other characters were made to play a backseat role in terms of their significance, everything is engineered by Stark. Perhaps Cap has more screen time, but it's like all the important stuff comes from Stark. Everybody else just dances to his tune, and when a character does question Stark they're dismissed with an audience-pleasing one-liner.

I'm a huge Captain America fan, and I enjoyed TWS immensely, but I can't sit through another team-up movie where it's the Iron Man show occasionally featuring his little friends when it's convenient. Marvel knows who sells their universe to the GA, it's Iron Man. And they'll keep making him the cool guy at the expense of the other Avengers, particularly Banner and Rogers. Everyone enjoys that and that's fine, it's working out well, but I had my fill of that with Avengers.

RDJ even admits that he requested to be the out and out lead in this movie, he's the driving force. He absolutely relegates the other team members, and for me it doesn't come across as a team initiative as much as Stark having chess pieces to move around. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Tony Stark]

Just happy to see it still getting votes

My opinion is that it's no 1, and I'm a huge TWS fan. But for me it was far and away better than DOFP, which was a fan service film and failed to bring in any new fans to the franchise.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree about the Peggy part, that really hit home, but the line at the end doesnt do much for me, I think them botching Steve and Bucky's friendship in the 1st movie just didnt help things there. The Russo's did the best they could though.

1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% disagree on this point.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

With all due respect, that's so very far from the truth: the MCU has been far less dependent for its success on RDJ than Fox has been on Hugh Jackman as evidenced by the success of CA:TWS GOTG and to a lesser extent Thor: The Dark World. Guardians of the Galaxy has now out-grossed every MCU film sans Iron Man 3 and The Avengers.

Hell, in The Avengers, Cap had even had more screen time than Iron Man and none of the characters got shafted to benefit Iron Man which is something that can't be said for Wolverine in the first three X-Men films. Though to be fair to Fox, X-Men has recently become less dependent on Wolverine with both First Class and DOFP

In fact, I would argue that it is Cap, not Stark that has the greatest influence on the MCU.

He had the most screentime and was the field leader in The Avengers.
His villains are the most frequent recurring villains in the MCU, including being involved with other characters.
He had an indirect involvement in the creation of the Hulk, Abomination, and The Leader. The Army was trying to replicate the Super Soldier experiment that created Cap.
His best friend killed Howard Stark.
He is responsible for the single biggest change to the MCU Status Quo to date, the exposing of Hydra to the world and forcing SHIELD underground. That action is felt all over Agents of SHIELD.

But the MCU as a whole is an ensemble. Stark himself has only appeared in 5 of 10 MCU films so far, one of which was a cameo. It isn't at all comparable to Wolverine who has been in 7 of 7 X-Men films and been the lead in all but one.

I actually love Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and think he should be the focal point most of the time, but he is all over the X-Men films in a way that no Marvel character is in the MCU.

 

[See Cap Run]

In fact, I would argue that it is Cap, not Stark that has the greatest influence on the MCU.

He had the most screentime and was the field leader in The Avengers.
His villains are the most frequent recurring villains in the MCU, including being involved with other characters.
He had an indirect involvement in the creation of the Hulk, Abomination, and The Leader. The Army was trying to replicate the Super Soldier experiment that created Cap.
His best friend killed Howard Stark.
He is responsible for the single biggest change to the MCU Status Quo to date, the exposing of Hydra to the world and forcing SHIELD underground. That action is felt all over Agents of SHIELD.

But the MCU as a whole is an ensemble. Stark himself has only appeared in 5 of 10 MCU films so far, one of which was a cameo. It isn't at all comparable to Wolverine who has been in 7 of 7 X-Men films and been the lead in all but one.

I actually love Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and think he should be the focal point most of the time, but he is all over the X-Men films in a way that no Marvel character is in the MCU.

Very good points! Also, if I'm not mistaken a device with a small piece of the tesseract was stolen from a Hydra facility by Cap and used by Howard Stark to not only create the Arc Reactor but also the new element that Tony discovered in Iron Man 2. That's probably why Tony looked so fascinated with it when he was holding the hologram of it in the Stark Tower at the beginning of The Avengers. Also, thanks to CA:TWS we now know that Senator Stern in Iron Man 2 was attempting to obtain the Iron Man suit not for the US government, but for Hydra.

 

[Erzengel]

I think the Avengers did a good job giving every character enough screen time. It didn't feel like Iron Man and the Avengers.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Very good points! Also, if I'm not mistaken a device with a small piece of the tesseract was stolen from a Hydra facility by Cap and used by Howard Stark to not only create the Arc Reactor but also the new element that Tony discovered in Iron Man 2. That's probably why Tony looked so fascinated with it when he was holding the hologram of it in the Stark Tower at the beginning of The Avengers. Also, thanks to CA:TWS we now know that Senator Stern in Iron Man 2 was attempting to obtain the Iron Man suit not for the US government, but for Hydra.

Yes! I forgot about that. Thank you.

It seems like many of the complaints of how Cap is being misused is more along the lines of complaints that Stark is more popular among moviegoers (not that Cap is unpopular, just not as), than what is actually happening on screen.

 

[Shikamaru]

In fact, I would argue that it is Cap, not Stark that has the greatest influence on the MCU.

He had the most screentime and was the field leader in The Avengers.
His villains are the most frequent recurring villains in the MCU, including being involved with other characters.
He had an indirect involvement in the creation of the Hulk, Abomination, and The Leader. The Army was trying to replicate the Super Soldier experiment that created Cap.
His best friend killed Howard Stark.
He is responsible for the single biggest change to the MCU Status Quo to date, the exposing of Hydra to the world and forcing SHIELD underground. That action is felt all over Agents of SHIELD.

But the MCU as a whole is an ensemble. Stark himself has only appeared in 5 of 10 MCU films so far, one of which was a cameo. It isn't at all comparable to Wolverine who has been in 7 of 7 X-Men films and been the lead in all but one.

I actually love Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and think he should be the focal point most of the time, but he is all over the X-Men films in a way that no Marvel character is in the MCU.

Well said. Iron Man has only had the greatest influence in terms of marketability, which makes him seem more present than he really is. And even then, it's a gap that seems to be rapidly closing as other Marvel franchises are starting to break records.

 

[Gusto]

Don't know why people are saying they'll give up on Marvel just because of Iron Man's presence in less than 8 years, yet still bother with the X-franchise and Wolverine after 14.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Untill 2011 there was a X-men film once every 3 years.SInce then we got First Class 2 years after origins.The wolverine 2 years after FC and DOFP 1 year
after The Wolverine.Deadpool and Apocalypse will be coming less than 2 years after DOFP.Another wolverine film the following year and a TBA X-Men related film In 2018.

By 2016 We will have had Tony Stark In 3 Iron Man Films 2 Avengers,a major role In Cap 3 and cameo In In Incredible Hulk.That's as many films In shorter
peroid than Jackman has now as Wolverine before Apocalypse and Wolverine
solo.And downey will have third Avengers and as the cap deal shows noone
can say how long he will be playing stark just like jackman as wolverine.

If Marvel could you bet they would put wolverine In Avengers.Long before films marvel themselves In comics have been accused of overusing Wolverine.

Having just rewatched DOFP again on DVD I think saying DOFP Is just all about wolverine Is very wrong assumination.Just like I saying Stark wasn't
a key focus of Avengers.I never said he was sole focus.The avengers focus Is really him and Cap.Wolverine Is key character but DOFP Is more about Xavier and lesser extent Magneto.

Avengers and X-Men are totally different.When WB makes justice league wanna bet batman will be key character.Perhapes the Wolverine of DCCU.

 

[See Cap Run]

Untill 2011 there was a X-men film once every 3 years.SInce then we got First Class 2 years after origins.The wolverine 2 years after FC and DOFP 1 year
after The Wolverine.Deadpool and Apocalypse will be coming less than 2 years after DOFP.Another wolverine film the following year and a TBA X-Men related film In 2018.

By 2016 We will have had Tony Stark In 3 Iron Man Films 2 Avengers,a major role In Cap 3 and cameo In In Incredible Hulk.That's as many films In shorter
peroid than Jackman has now as Wolverine before Apocalypse and Wolverine
solo.And downey will have third Avengers and as the cap deal shows noone
can say how long he will be playing stark just like jackman as wolverine.

If Marvel could you bet they would put wolverine In Avengers.Long before films marvel themselves In comics have been accused of overusing Wolverine.

Having just rewatched DOFP again on DVD I think saying DOFP Is just all about wolverine Is very wrong assumination.Just like I saying Stark wasn't
a key focus of Avengers.I never said he was sole focus.The avengers focus Is really him and Cap.Wolverine Is key character but DOFP Is more about Xavier and lesser extent Magneto.

Avengers and X-Men are totally different.When WB makes justice league wanna bet batman will be key character.Perhapes the Wolverine of DCCU.

I agree, with FC and DOFP Fox is becoming less dependent on Wolverine.

However, if you want to talk about how many MCU films RDJ is im compared to Jackman in X-Men, then let's really get into the nittygritty of it: By the time Dr. Strange comes out in 2016 Stark will have been in 7 out of 14 films. By 2018 or 2019 he'll have probably been in 8 out of about 22 films. (This being based on the fact that there will supposedly be 9 MCU films released between 2016 and 2019).

Hugh Jackman on the other hand will have appeared in about 8 out of 9 dilms by the release of Wolverine 3 in 2017 (I'm assuming he'll be in Apocolypse but I haven't checked as I've been trying to avoid spoilers). It seems to me based on that breakdown that there's no comparison: the X-Men films have been much more dependent on Hugh Jackman than the MCU is on RDJ.

Plus you have the Marvel tv shows which RDJ is not apart of.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I'm not sure, we might have to agree to disagree. Perhaps Wolverine "carries" X-men more, but I feel like the characterization of the other Avenger's is watered down to elevate RDJ's Stark over the others. Thor and Hulk are reduced to glorified action sequences and Cap is the only guy who has some decent dialogue - only to get one-linered by Stark over being too much of a boy scout. And now Iron Man is in Cap 3...? I lost my respect for the MCU after Avengers, where everything happened at Tony Stark's calling and the other characters were made to play a backseat role in terms of their significance, everything is engineered by Stark. Perhaps Cap has more screen time, but it's like all the important stuff comes from Stark. Everybody else just dances to his tune, and when a character does question Stark they're dismissed with an audience-pleasing one-liner.

Agreed. In Avengers for example he had almost all the key moments

Just happy to see it still getting votes

Same

It isn't at all comparable to Wolverine who has been in 7 of 7 X-Men films and been the lead in all but one.

There's been five X-Men movies, he's been in four of them.

X-Men is an team franchise, whereas the MCU is a collection of different franchises so it's not comparable. What is comparable is comparing the team franchises. Wolverines been in 4/5 and Stark will be in 2/2 team movies.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Guardians is at 30

Awesome, hope it climbs up some more once the BD hits.

1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% disagree on this point.

Thats not much of a disagreement then . Just imagine though that that line was introduced in the 1st movie, if it had, I think him saying it at the end of the 2nd movie to 'wake him up' so to speak would have had much more impact, IMO of course.

I think thats why the ending of DOFP worked so well, seeing the future and seeing everyone back that had been lost, it was yet another moment in the movie I was close to tears.

Untill 2011 there was a X-men film once every 3 years.SInce then we got First Class 2 years after origins.The wolverine 2 years after FC and DOFP 1 year
after The Wolverine.Deadpool and Apocalypse will be coming less than 2 years after DOFP.Another wolverine film the following year and a TBA X-Men related film In 2018.

By 2016 We will have had Tony Stark In 3 Iron Man Films 2 Avengers,a major role In Cap 3 and cameo In In Incredible Hulk.That's as many films In shorter
peroid than Jackman has now as Wolverine before Apocalypse and Wolverine
solo.And downey will have third Avengers and as the cap deal shows noone
can say how long he will be playing stark just like jackman as wolverine.

If Marvel could you bet they would put wolverine In Avengers.Long before films marvel themselves In comics have been accused of overusing Wolverine.

Having just rewatched DOFP again on DVD I think saying DOFP Is just all about wolverine Is very wrong assumination.Just like I saying Stark wasn't
a key focus of Avengers.I never said he was sole focus.The avengers focus Is really him and Cap.Wolverine Is key character but DOFP Is more about Xavier and lesser extent Magneto.

Avengers and X-Men are totally different.When WB makes justice league wanna bet batman will be key character.Perhapes the Wolverine of DCCU.

In phase 1 and 2 Stark has been their 'Wolverine' so to speak, to me anyway, thankfully now they seem to be branching out, but I think a lot of that is to do with RDJ not wanting to do an IM4. Had RDJ wanted to do it, I think it would have been the other 2016 or 2017 movie. Also, you cant count The Wolverine as an X-Men movie in my eyes, its a Wolverine movie and nothing else, so that hardly counts.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There's been five X-Men movies, he's been in four of them.

X-Men is an team franchise, whereas the MCU is a collection of different franchises so it's not comparable. What is comparable is comparing the team franchises. Wolverines been in 4/5 and Stark will be in 2/2 team movies.

Translation: The statistics show that I'm wrong, so I'm just going to move the goalposts until I'm right.

You can't just start throwing out movies that disprove your argument. That's like saying the Seattle Seahawks are undefeated so far this season if you don't count the games that they lost.

 

[See Cap Run]

There's been five X-Men movies, he's been in four of them.

X-Men is an team franchise, whereas the MCU is a collection of different franchises so it's not comparable. What is comparable is comparing the team franchises. Wolverines been in 4/5 and Stark will be in 2/2 team movies.

Going further what Kahran said, if you are going to move the goalposts to only include teams films, then why not also include GOTG and GOTG 2 which will probably both be absent one Tony Stark.

 

[See Cap Run]

On the topic of my favorite CBM of 2014 I actually love Cap 2 and Guardians equally (they along with The Avengers are equally my favorite three Marvel movies so far) however since I could only choose one I voted for Cap 2 as Captain America is my favorite superhero.

 

[DeadPresident]

Going further what Kahran said, if you are going to move the goalposts to only include teams films, then why not also include GOTG and GOTG 2 which will probably both be absent one Tony Stark.

...because Tony Stark isn't part of that team?

That's like saying the next F4 movies will all be without Wolverine. No ****, that's not the team-up he's part of.

 

[BatsDC]

Iron Man technically is a Guardian

 

[See Cap Run]

...because Tony Stark isn't part of that team?

That's like saying the next F4 movies will all be without Wolverine. No ****, that's not the team-up he's part of.

Yes but both Avengers and GOTG are team films from the MCU film series and they exist in the same film universe: Marvel could have used Stark as a crutch in GOTG to ensure its box office success since it was a very risky project. They chose not to however as Marvel has confidence in all its characters.