Official UFC Thread

[B]

Well I'm not, I was talking about his amateur wrestling matches.

Even still the comment still stands, I've seen some of his wrestling matches & he seems pretty aggressive even in them.

I can't believe I missed this....

The only person he has finished with G&P is Mir who gets finished by LHW´s. He couldn't hold down a 250 year old Couture with a 50 lbs weight difference.

Currently Bones has shown some devastating G&P. Shoguns can be lethal. GSP when he goes all out is ****ing deadly on the ground, just ask Sherk. For all time, Fedors is pretty hard to beat, he just doesn't seem to use it that much anymore.

Best period?

First lets just get what I said correct, I said:

"Brock's style of ground & pound is one of the most aggressive in the UFC & in MMA period."

The key word(s) being most aggressive, not the 'best period'

Lets look at it, of his 6 fights he won his first fight by pounding out some unknown Korean 3rd degree Judo blackbelt, he gave Frank Mir 2 savage maulings on the ground despite losing one. He gave Heath Herring a very one sided 3 round beatdown.

He didn't do much ground and pound on Couture due to the fact that Couture had the experience to know when to get back up & use the cage.. and Lesnar had the inexperience of being too aggressive with trying to maul him rather than controlling him by laying his weight on him & tagging him with those powerful accurate shots like he did against Mir in his next fight after the Couture one.. obviously some improvements where made.

Lesnar's ground and pound is fierce, GSP's ground and pound hasn't been that great in recent fights.. if it where great he'd have bloodied up his opponents more and/or finished the fights, however yes when he really unloads & starts landing shots GSP's g&p is probably the best in MMA.
Bones has fierce elbows & good G&P/takedowns.. however his opponents have been in the mid-range of the LHW division, not against what I'd describe as contenders of said division..

Shogun doesn't g&p, he hasn't done since entering the UFC & the only time he did it in Pride was after he'd soccer kicked or flying stomped a guys head and was trying to end it.
Fedor's the same, he rarely ever ground and pounds anyone unless he has them in trouble or is having great success hitting them.. most of his ground work revolves around working for a submission, at least in the many of his fights I've seen.

 

[E-Man]

You know what I love about the Lesnar/Couture match? Both guys were active in the grappling instead of stalling like too many fighters do on the defensive. When Randy attempted to push Brock up against the cage to work the clinch, Brock worked his way out of it instead of just holding his position there to look for a restart. When Randy got taken down by Brock twice, he worked his way out and got back up instead of looking at the ref and hoping for a stand up. Too many fighters whine about having to grapple.

 

[doih]

Er, Fedor does a lot of GnP...

 

[LOBO3315a]

I will have to say Lesner has taken to MMA like a fish to water. He's defenitely improved since debuting. The only thing I can honestly say, is I think he was given a title bout a little too soon. Regardless, it's always entertaining to see his matches.

I just wish that Bobby Lashley would make the commitment and get in UFC, and quit all the scripted wrestling.

 

[doih]

ANyone going to catch Strikeforce tonight?

I think this card has the potential for some really entertaining fights.

 

[E-Man]

ANyone going to catch Strikeforce tonight?

I think this card has the potential for some really entertaining fights.

Yeah. JZ vs. Josh Thomson is one of the best lightweight matches you could put on right now. I don't know why it's at the beginning of the card. It should be the co main event since both guys are top dogs at 155 when they're healthy.

 

[CrypticOne]

I really like the Primetime shows the UFC puts together. Awesome.

 

[brainchild81]

Dish dropped Fox Sports, so now I can't watch Bellator on my tv until the pissing match is over. I hate watching streams over tv.

I heard something about that. Look for it on the Spanish channel. I think it's called MUN2 or something like that. They also got a half hour show on NBC latenights. I think DISH dropped FX too. Comcast seems to be the best provider right about now.

A question to all the MMA fans here:
when do you think MMA is going to become legal in New York?

They haven't already? Sometime within the next year then.

Why is Cain immune to tiredness?

He's taken the same Super Soldier Serum that Capt. America did. When you get a chance, you need to see this show called "Fight Science". They ran tests on Handy Couture & his muscles don't fatigue like a regular person's do. Cain's got the same thing

I don't see this fight going like the Carwin fight so gassing out from an onslaught of punches should be Cain's least worries.

We'll see. I'd never bet against Brock after the Carwin fight, but I wouldn't count Cain out either.

ANyone going to catch Strikeforce tonight?

I think this card has the potential for some really entertaining fights.

Ditto. I'm watching it.

 

[B]

He's taken the same Super Soldier Serum that Capt. America did. When you get a chance, you need to see this show called "Fight Science". They ran tests on Handy Couture & his muscles don't fatigue like a regular person's do. Cain's got the same thing

Errr.. I'm 90% positive I saw the episode & it didn't say this at all, they just said Couture was in the shape of a 25 year old as opposed to 45 years old.

Everyone fatigues the same, the only thing you can do is train your cardio around your sport to give you the best performance.. however if your put into a position you aren't normally used to, that's when the plot thickens.

If for example Lesnar puts Velasquez on his back in the first round, how will Velasquez's cardio hold up if hes got a heavyweight like Lesnar, who will probably weigh about 275-285 on the night, laying on top of him landing blows into Cain's stomach/head.. It's completely different in a real fight as opposed to what he'd do in training as the blows would be alot harder & each blow is gonna suck the wind out of you. Plus there is the mental side of things, if he isn't comfortable of his back & starts to panic, his brain releases various things like adrenaline and other "chemicals" into his bloodstream that could either perk him up & give him a boost... or it could cause him to panic, thus raising his heart rate and as a result he could potentially tire quicker than he usually does.

Theres no point in talking to me about cardio, I've done alot of research on the subject due to the fact that I have a buddy who I goto the gym with of similar muscle & weight who can run on a treadmill for hours, whereas I can only go for about 30 mins at the same level he does... whereas I can use a cross trainer for hours and he can only do about 30 mins on that at the level I use.
It's just different types of fitness put simply, Velasquez may be capable of repeatedly throwing smooth punches/kicks constantly & consistantly, but how is his explosive cardio where he may have to repeatedly try to power out of situations..? This is something Brock has loads of.

I don't see the cardio being a deciding factor in this match, just like it wasn't when BJ fought Sanchez.. but as ever, I could be proved wrong if Lesnar or Velasquez gases out in the second, third, forth or fifth should it go that far.

We'll see. I'd never bet against Brock after the Carwin fight, but I wouldn't count Cain out either.Ditto. I'm watching it.

I'm definatly not counting Velasquez out, I think he does pose a strong threat against Lesnar. However that being said, I'm going with Lesnar for the simple fact I think Velasquez doesn't have anything to offer which Lesnar hasn't seen & beaten before.

I like Velasquez & Lesnar so it makes no real difference to me who wins, but my gut tells me Lesnar's power is just gonna be too much.

 

[BlackLantern]

I agree B...Velasquez is a damn good fighter, but I really don't see him beating Lesnar

 

[doih]

A minor point, but actually Lesnar doesn't weigh as mcuh as he used to. He's changed a lot of his diet/lifestyle after his health problems and doesn't cut much to get to 265.

On a different topic, what do you guys think of Fedor Emelianenko? I always thought it was funny to see the detractors and fanboys frothing at the mouth about him. I try to do an objective look at his record here: http://www.rantmma.com/2010/10/how-good-is-fedor-really/

 

[B]

A minor point, but actually Lesnar doesn't weigh as mcuh as he used to. He's changed a lot of his diet/lifestyle after his health problems and doesn't cut much to get to 265.

I believe he used to walk around at about 285/290 while he wasn't in intensive training however during training making the cut to 265. Which is a cut of about 20/25 lbs.

Now however I think he walks around about 275/280 only cutting about 15lbs to make weight due to his improved diet & lifestyle improvements.

For a guy of his size, cutting 20/25lbs during a 12 week camp wouldn't be that difficult with some hard work & minor diet changes. It wouldn't be as unhealthy as it is for guys like Thaigo Alves/Anthony Johnson who have to really drain themselves to make weight.

On a different topic, what do you guys think of Fedor Emelianenko? I always thought it was funny to see the detractors and fanboys frothing at the mouth about him. I try to do an objective look at his record here: http://www.rantmma.com/2010/10/how-good-is-fedor-really/

My personally opinion is that Fedor hasn't been a contender to be the best heavyweight in MMA since his Pride days around 2006 at the latest.

I know there will be a million people that disagree with me but that's just my opinion.
I personally don't believe he was/has been fighting people that have been the best he could have faced at that particular time (since 2006 onwards).

 

[E-Man]

If Fedor wasn't number one from 2006, then who was? His competition decreased big time, but no other heavyweight established enough dominance to make the claim to be number one until now. It wasn't Nog. Fedor beat his ass enough to establish that he'll never be better. Cro Cop wasn't it either because he didn't go on a crazy tear enough to unseat Fedor. Maybe if he won the UFC title after winning the Open Weight GP, but he didn't do that and faded out of relevance quickly.

Tim Sylvia? Nah, he didn't do anything to be the number one guy. Same with Arlovski. He had already lost to Sylvia twice, so he definitely couldn't be it. Frank Mir lost two prime years to the accident. Maybe if he never got hurt he could make the claim, but he was hurt and it took him a long time to look like a good fighter again. Werdum hadn't made any waves yet, and Sergei wasn't a real demon. Randy had just came back to heavyweight in 2007.

Fedor was still number one because no one could unseat him. Now you can make that claim since Werdum beat him, and Brock has beat some top guys in championship fights.

 

[doih]

I think right now, over the whole period of time Fedor is still the top heavyweight. Before y'all jump on me, I'm talking about over the entire career. It took 10 years for someone to beat him. 30+ wins and 0 losses is not something to sneeze at. That being said, it's entirely possible that Brock or someone else could surpass his level of dominance.

Also, I think Tim Sylvia gets a lot of hate. The guy was 23-2 at one point and he had beaten all comers. He lost to Couture, but he was badly iinjured for that fight. No hate on Couture, but I honestly think Sylvia would have won that fight 8/10 times. He beat Arlovski, who was in the high top 10 at that point, twice. He beat an ADCC champ in Monson. I'm not a Timmy fan and yeah, he looks like Sloth, but still, he's really underappreciated imo.

Frank Mir could have been one of the greatest of all time. We'll never know what could have been if not for that motorcycle accident.

 

[E-Man]

Anyone can be surpassed. Fedor's record is great, but it's not infallible to me. For the 20 something fights he went without losing, there still were gaps that weren't so great. Now that's not a knock to Fedor, I'm just saying that most fighters fight lower level guys until they get to the top. Fedor didn't start out fighting people on Nog's level like some people would have you believe. Everyone's gotta start somewhere.

The only issue with Fedor's record are two things. One, heavyweight historically has been a really crappy division. MMA is still really young, even if you go back to the Vale Tudo days in Brazil. With MMA still growing, heavyweights are the last guys to really develop. Fedor was one of the few heavyweights that didn't lumber around. He beat who was in front of him though, so you can't fault him too much for beating everyone he could.

He did however leave some really great years on the table fighting freaking Matt Lindland, Mark Coleman again, Zulu, and Hong Man Choi. There was no reason for him to fight those guys when he's supposed to be the top guy in the world. Champions need to fight elite guys. Pride and his management should have never let him take those fights.

 

[doih]

Yeah, I feel you.

On the matchmaking, Japan does make for some sheer entertainment value. See: Zulu vs Butterbean, Takase vs Yarborough, Super Hulk Tournament, etc.

 

[B]

Fedor was still number one because no one could unseat him. Now you can make that claim since Werdum beat him, and Brock has beat some top guys in championship fights.

Sorry for skipping over the rest of your post but I just wanted to say that this is more or less exactly my point, you cannot remain 'the best' simply because no one has beat you or put together a win streak similar.

If this where the case Floyd Mayweather could just retire from boxing now & no one in the near future would be able to unseat him from being the pound for pound best because no one would be able to put together such a win steak against top level opponents anytime soon..

Nor could Floyd be considered the best had he done what Fedor has done since his Pride days ie fight guys just out of contention & fight guys who are out of their moment just to take his record up to 50-0/60-0 or in Fedor's case 33-1..

 

[BlackLantern]

with different MMA promotions its tough to define "the best EVAR!!!"

 

[doih]

Well, rankings are always subject to some subjectivity.

I mean, I think Overeem (if his head is on straight) could beat anyone on the top 10 heavyweights list, but unlike Bas Rutten I'm not going to say Overeem is the #1 heavyweight in the world. He hasn't beaten enough top competition.

 

[Paroxysm]

Well, rankings are always subject to some subjectivity.

I mean, I think Overeem (if his head is on straight) could beat anyone on the top 10 heavyweights list, but unlike Bas Rutten I'm not going to say Overeem is the #1 heavyweight in the world. He hasn't beaten enough top competition.

I will. Overeem is a well rounded fighter. Brock is one dimensional. I've watched them both fight and it doesn't take genius to figure out who's the better HW.

and btw Bas knows best.

 

[B]

I will. Overeem is a well rounded fighter. Brock is one dimensional. I've watched them both fight and it doesn't take genius to figure out who's the better HW.

and btw Bas knows best.

Yea, it's clear Lesnar is clearly the better heavyweight.

Overeem is no more well-rounded than Lesnar, hes a striker. He tries to keep fights standing as long as possible. He has basic grappling ability.

Lesnar is a wrestler/ground & pounder. He tries to get fights to the ground as soon as possible. He has average striking.

Overeem's area of 'strength' isn't as strong as Lesnar's area of 'strength' based on what I've seen.

 

[Paroxysm]

Yea, it's clear Lesnar is clearly the better heavyweight.

Overeem is no more well-rounded than Lesnar, hes a striker. He tries to keep fights standing as long as possible. He has basic grappling ability.

Lesnar is a wrestler/ground & pounder. He tries to get fights to the ground as soon as possible. He has average striking.

Overeem's area of 'strength' isn't as strong as Lesnar's area of 'strength' based on what I've seen.

Thanks for another uninformed opinion.

 

[doih]

Honestly, half of it is because Overeem is Dutch, so Bas picked him.

If you're going by recent opponents beaten, it's tough to say Overeem is #1. You could say that Overeem is #1 due to 'skills' or 'potential,' but at this point it becomes way too subjective.

 

[B]

Thanks for another uninformed opinion.

Thanks for another idiotic retort.

 

[E-Man]

Overeem has to be the most overrated fighter right now. He hasn't done a damn thing in MMA but get his ass beat by all the good fighters he's faced. The 205 excuses are ridiculous too. Yeah he cut a decent amount of weight, but he was only 228 when he was cutting to 203 back in Pride. He cut enough times to get used to it, so I don't buy the excuse that he had bad cardio because he was too big for the weight class. He gassed when he went to the second round against Werdum without cutting. he just has had bad cardio, and it has yet to be tested against a good opponent. Brock has beaten far better guys in short career than Overeem has had in over 40 fights. Getting bigger and fighting cans in Dream does not mean that you have improved. When Overeem beats Fedor or Werdum, then he should be discussed with the best. Right now he's just a a guy on the wrong end of some highlight reels, and he's Dutch and fought in Pride. Elitists need him to keep up that lie about someone who would come in and destroy any UFC division.

K-1 also isn't MMA. Knocking out Badr Hari may be great, but that doesn't automatically mean that he'll knock out everyone in MMA. K-1 is just an overrated name. Yeah there are good strikers there, but they're not some invincible mystics that knock out anyone they stand with. If that was the case, then Rampage would have never got outstruck by the vastly inferior Forrest.