Post Mid Terms - who should challenge Trump in 2020?

[Silvermoth]

Harris and Biden are an interesting team

 

[HKpowerup]

A combination involving Bernie Sanders and/or Elizabeth Warren. They're both populists at heart and Democrats need such candidates to take back the White House.

Biden is a good candidate but has that corporatist background which I think will turn off a lot of angry voters.

Neither Sanders nor Warren have that "corporatist politician" aura hovering over them and plain speak straight to the heart. I think they're the Democrats' best chance at this stage.

 

[AResistor]

No, Hillary should stay the hell away. She lost and her messed up “Pied Piper” (which is a strategy that reeks of privilege) gave us Trump.

They Always Wanted Trump

Biden already wrecked his shot when he more or less said screw millennials. 2020 will rely on young votes and he’s a liability.

Biden Trashes Millennials in His Quest to Become Even Less Likable

 

[Reaver027]

If Texas shifts more blue in the next two years i could see Beto taking a shot at running for president. It would be the Dems best bet to carry Texas in a very long time.
His message of wating to unite and be there for everyone could also resonate with voters in the swing states.
But that loss to Cruise would still be a stain that Reps could abuse.

 

[Sithborg]

Others have come back from such a narrow loss. And even then, there was a titanic shift in the representation of Texas. Seriously, Beto's loss may have been a disappointment, but do not underestimate his run had in energizing Dems. He showed that Texas is winnable. And the more resources the GOP has to spend in Texas of all places, is money that could result in more pickups.

 

[Aximili86]

Biden's basically the only one with a chance.

Saw that thing about Kasich, but that's not happening. Kasich couldn't win a regular primary (much a I personally dig the guy), let alone challenge an incumbent.

 

[mclay18]

Kamala Harris to Decide on 2020 Presidential Bid ‘Over the Holiday’

Her memoir comes out early 2019 too. I think she will throw her hat in the ring.

 

[MaceB]

Going with Biden all the way. He can win, he has experience in government, and he has a good heart.

Is he as progressive as Harris, Warren, or sanders? No. But I think it’d be a mistake to throw a staunch progressive against trump... as enticing as that choice might be. Warren, Sanders, or Harris would galvanize conservatives, and I don’t want to put all my hopes on the liberal base again. We need a sensible leader who believes in progressive policies, but also someone willing to compromise with sensible conservatives. That’s Joe Biden.

 

[Lobo]

I would like to see Sherrod Brown, or Julian Castro run. Harris will definitely throw her name in the ring imo, ditto for Booker

 

[Iceman]

Going with Biden all the way. He can win, he has experience in government, and he has a good heart.

Is he as progressive as Harris, Warren, or sanders? No. But I think it’d be a mistake to throw a staunch progressive against trump... as enticing as that choice might be. Warren, Sanders, or Harris would galvanize conservatives, and I don’t want to put all my hopes on the liberal base again. We need a sensible leader who believes in progressive policies, but also someone willing to compromise with sensible conservatives. That’s Joe Biden.

I like your reasons. Do you think he'd run?

 

[MaceB]

I like your reasons. Do you think he'd run?

Thanks! I do think he's going to run. I think he got pushed out in 16 (regardless of what he says) and I think he wants to rectify that mistake by running in 2020. He's giving us signals that he wants to run, IMO.

 

[AResistor]

Thanks! I do think he's going to run. I think he got pushed out in 16 (regardless of what he says) and I think he wants to rectify that mistake by running in 2020. He's giving us signals that he wants to run, IMO.

If Biden though he’s going to SERIOUSLY need to course correct on millennial issues.

In 2016 protest voting came from disillusioned millennials who didn’t vote and millennials who wanted to give a middle finger to the system by protest voting.

Biden’s blindspot will be a VERY big problem.

A candidate who pretty much shoves voters aside like Biden did to millennials won’t inspire millennials to vote for him - he has to change.

THIS (\/) will kill him at the voting booth:

“The younger generation now tells me how tough things are. Give me a break. No, no, I have no empathy for it. Give me a break.“

(Full link in my post above)

With this single line Biden turned himself into the representation of everything many millennials see as despicable in boomer politicians today.

Google “Biden millenials” and the FIRST results that pop up is Biden trash talking an entire generation of voters. That’s bad baggage.

Not only will he need to change his attitude, he’ll need to prove he has changed for many millennials to ever take him seriously again. 2020 is going to depend on the young vote, and right now Biden made himself into poison.

Boomers could say “toughen up,” “get over it,” “stop whining - he’s right!” All that will do will further alienate millennial voters who are fed up and tired of the same old lines. As said, it doesn’t bode well from a generational standpoint.

2016 was more than Clinton vs Bernie - it was boomers vs millennials because the divide between the candidate supporters was a generational one.

 

[Iceman]

Thanks! I do think he's going to run. I think he got pushed out in 16 (regardless of what he says) and I think he wants to rectify that mistake by running in 2020. He's giving us signals that he wants to run, IMO.

Oh right, thanks for that.

 

[MaceB]

If Biden though he’s going to SERIOUSLY need to course correct on millennial issues.

In 2016 protest voting came from disillusioned millennials who didn’t vote and millennials who wanted to give a middle finger to the system by protest voting.

Biden’s blindspot will be a VERY big problem.

A candidate who pretty much shoves voters aside like Biden did to millennials won’t inspire millennials to vote for him - he has to change.

THIS (\/) will kill him at the voting booth:

“The younger generation now tells me how tough things are. Give me a break. No, no, I have no empathy for it. Give me a break.“

(Full link in my post above)

With this single line Biden turned himself into the representation of everything many millennials see as despicable in boomer politicians today.

Google “Biden millenials” and the FIRST results that pop up is Biden trash talking an entire generation of voters. That’s bad baggage.

Not only will he need to change his attitude, he’ll need to prove he has changed for many millennials to ever take him seriously again. 2020 is going to depend on the young vote, and right now Biden made himself into poison.

Boomers could say “toughen up,” “get over it,” “stop whining - he’s right!” All that will do will further alienate millennial voters who are fed up and tired of the same old lines. As said, it doesn’t bode well from a generational standpoint.

2016 was more than Clinton vs Bernie - it was boomers vs millennials because the divide between the candidate supporters was a generational one.

IMO, You are overreacting over a single comment taken out of context. What Biden was saying was.. "millennials say they have it rough, but that's why getting involved is so important." That's essentially what he was saying if you read the whole paragraph. If you want to find something against him, then this is as good as anything I guess though. That's why Eve Peyser wrote that article I assume... not too impressed with her reasoning personally. The article reads like a defense of a preconceived opinion rather than an actual argument that Biden is bad because he said something mildly frustrating.
Biden is a progress who fights for the Other in pretty much every situation: the lgbt, the minorities, the elderly, the worker. This is why liberals are weak at the polls. These predictable purity tests don't do us any good. He's as progressive as Obama, but he also gets respect from conservative whites in the rust belt. He would protect social security, medicare, and Obamacare. He'd fight for a living wage. And he'd be able to get them done too, which I don't think you can say for certain with Bernie or Harris or Warren.

 

[moviedoors]

I don't want to vote for a nearly 80 year old man.

 

[MaceB]

I don't want to vote for a nearly 80 year old man.

That’s your right and your prerogative. Myself, I think the age concerns are overblown. He’s got no signs of mental or physical fatigue, and I think the value he brings is larger than those concerns. The man has immense integrity and because of that, he’s more than earned his chance imo.

 

[AResistor]

IMO, You are overreacting over a single comment taken out of context. What Biden was saying was.. "millennials say they have it rough, but that's why getting involved is so important." That's essentially what he was saying if you read the whole paragraph. If you want to find something against him, then this is as good as anything I guess though. That's why Eve Peyser wrote that article I assume... not too impressed with her reasoning personally. The article reads like a defense of a preconceived opinion rather than an actual argument that Biden is bad because he said something mildly frustrating.
Biden is a progress who fights the Other in pretty much every situation: the lgbt, the minorities, the elderly, the worker. This is why liberals are weak at the polls. These predictable purity tests don't do us any good. He's as progressive as Obama, but he also gets respect from conservative whites in the rust belt. He would protect social security, medicare, and Obamacare. He'd fight for a living wage. And he'd be able to get them done too, which I don't think you can say for certain with Bernie or Harris or Warren.

Again - that isn’t how you win millenials over. Millenials were no and protest voters.

I don’t hold it against him, much. My perspective is can he bounce back and how can he? He’d need to prove his position on millennial issues shifted (if they did).

But, “eh, told millennials to shove it no big deal” is no way to undo the baggage Biden brought onto himself and for many will instead add to it thanks to Hillary/Bernie or boomer/millenial party war.

On twitter - it resulted in numerous millennials calling Biden out for being slow to the times and being out-of-it when the story first broke (stories on this are the FIRST resultS for “Biden millennials”). In an election that is going to rely on young voters that isn’t good baggage to have.

If he runs - GUARANTEED an opponent brings this back up against him and guaranteed millennials have the same reaction they did when it first broke.

The way out isn’t more “eh, no big deal” - it’s having boomers actually start to pay attention to millenial issues and taking millennials seriously. Can they do it? Not to be agist, but I have serious doubts. The generational war and divide of 2015 is still raging all over twitter.

If Biden can undo the mess he put himself into, great - if not, we’re screwed because the guy shot himself in the foot and may well do so again.

 

[MaceB]

Again - that isn’t how you win millenials over. Millenials were no and protest voters.

I don’t hold it against him, much.

But, “eh, told millennials to shove it no big deal” is no way to undo the baggage Biden brought onto himself.

On twitter - it resulted in numerous millennials calling Biden out for being slow to the times and being out-of-it when the story first broke (stories on this are the FIRST resultS for “Biden millennials”). In an election that is going to rely on young voters that isn’t good baggage to have.

If he runs - GUARANTEED an opponent brings this back up against him and guaranteed millennials have the same reaction they did when it first broke.

The way out isn’t more “eh, no big deal” - it’s having boomers actually start to pay attention to millenial issues and taking millennials seriously. Can they do it? Not to be agist, but I have serious doubts. The generational war and divide is still raging all over twitter.

If Biden can undo the mess he put himself into, great - if not, we’re screwed because the guy shot himself in the foot and may well do so again.

And I say again, I think you are over reacting to an out of context comment. If others agree with you... that's okay... but I'd say the same about them as well. I appreciate that his comments might alienate millennials, and you're right... that's a big concern. But I think the fault is with millennials on that issue frankly... not Biden... who basically said nothing wrong unless you want to try to make it wrong.

Also... just a little note... it's this kind of talk that ruined the 2016 election for Democrats. If Millennials put aside their purity tests and Bernie love.. they would have easily seen how Clinton was a superior candidate than Trump. I can only hope they won't protest vote in 2020, and cut their nose off to spite their face again. Harris, Warren, Sanders, Biden... they'd all be good presidents, but Biden would be the best... and that's why I'm going to support him in the primary. Whoever wins that primary will most likely have my support.. unless a black horse comes in that is worse than Trump... which is hard for me to imagine.

 

[AResistor]

And I say again, I think you are over reacting to an out of context comment. If others agree with you... that's okay... but I'd say the same about them as well. I appreciate that his comments might alienate millennials, and you're right... that's a big concern. But I think the fault is with millennials on that issue frankly... not Biden... who basically said nothing wrong unless you want to try to make it wrong.

Also... just a little note... it's this kind of talk that ruined the 2016 election for Democrats. If Millennials put aside their purity tests and Bernie love.. they would have easily seen how Clinton was a superior candidate than Trump. I can only hope they won't protest vote in 2020, and cut their nose off to spite their face again. Harris, Warren, Sanders, Biden... they'd all be good presidents, but Biden would be the best... and that's why I'm going to support him in the primary. Whoever wins that primary will most likely have my support.. unless a black horse comes in that is worse than Trump... which is hard for me to imagine.

And again - as said - your kind of approach is what led to no and protest votes. Boomers scolding millenials didn’t work out well last time did it? No, and won’t here.

The very fact that it’s rapidly descending already into generational divide says all that it needs to say.

THAT is the very issue.

I’m not wholly against Biden, I’m against a repeat of the generational wars of 2015.

If Biden and Boomers can prove they can overcome their blindspot - great. If not and Biden gets through, we’re screwed.

It NEEDS to be a candidate who speaks to all generations - not one that leads to boomers scolding millennials as in 2015.

If Biden can prove that he is that (Hillary couldn’t and she didn’t shove millenials to the side as much) - great, if he can’t - we’re screwed and fastened in for a repeat.

 

[MaceB]

It comes down to who you side with I guess. I don't protest vote, because that does nothing for anyone. It's a selfish decision. If there are a whole bunch of young people who would rather see the country burn because they didn't get their pick... well... screw em. I don't want to negotiate with hostage takers. You're blaming boomers for shoving a credible candidate down our throats.. and hey, I didn't like it either. But the time to argue against and prevent those things is before the election.. not while it's happening. You don't try to change the rules of the game, while the game is running.

I don't buy the idea that Biden has a blind spot because he said one.. not so bad comment. He has like 40 years of service under his belt, and I'm pretty sure he's fought hard for education, for campaign finance reform, for health care reform, for a living wage... etc... all issues that millennials should care about... and policy should matter a whole lot more than rhetoric. I want to have faith that millennials will understand that, and that they can't get 100% of what they want. When are people going to understand the difference between an imperfect friend and a staunch enemy?

And again.. I reject the idea that somehow boomers are to blame for '16 because millennials refused to vote for anyone besides Bernie. You're essentially saying that we better cater to their childish thinking or we'll lose again. Don't millennials bear any responsibility to vote for what's best for the country rather than putting up a hissy fit though? Biden was just being honest with them.. and it relates to this exact conversation... complaining doesn't do anything; quitting in protest doesn't do anything; rolling up your sleeves and working the problem does. Do you have any policy arguments against Biden or is it solely based on this one piece of rhetoric? And I just want to say... you're entitled to this opinion. I respect it and you certainly aren't alone in this view. We just happen to disagree about the best strategy. That's okay.

 

[AResistor]

It comes down to who you side with I guess. I don't protest vote, because that does nothing for anyone. It's a selfish decision. If there are a whole bunch of young people who would rather see the country burn because they didn't get their pick... well... screw em. I don't want to negotiate with hostage takers. You're blaming boomers for shoving a credible candidate down our throats.. and hey, I didn't like it either. But the time to argue against and prevent those things is before the election.. not while it's happening. You don't try to change the rules of the game, while the game is running.

I don't buy the idea that Biden has a blind spot because he said one.. not so bad comment. He has like 40 years of service under his belt, and I'm pretty sure he's fought hard for education, for campaign finance reform, for health care reform, for a living wage... etc... all issues that millennials should care about... and policy should matter a whole lot more than rhetoric. I want to have faith that millennials will understand that, and that they can't get 100% of what they want. When are people going to understand the difference between an imperfect friend and a staunch enemy?

And again.. I reject the idea that somehow boomers are to blame for '16 because millennials refused to vote for anyone besides Bernie. You're essentially saying that we better cater to their childish thinking or we'll lose again. Don't millennials bear any responsibility to vote for what's best for the country rather than putting up a hissy fit though? Biden was just being honest with them.. and it relates to this exact conversation... complaining doesn't do anything; quitting in protest doesn't do anything; rolling up your sleeves and working the problem does. Do you have any policy arguments against Biden or is it solely based on this one piece of rhetoric? And I just want to say... you're entitled to this opinion. I respect it and you certainly aren't alone in this view. We just happen to disagree about the best strategy. That's okay.

On the record, I didn't protest vote or not vote. As a hispanic/bisexual/immigrant - I had no other choice but to hold my nose and vote for Clinton. I can, however, readily see why so many millennials didn't want to vote for her - especially when the media sold the narrative that Hillary was going to win no matter what happens. Essentially they didn't think their protest vote would chalk up to much.

Protest voters do hold part of the blame, as do Clinton supporters for believing Hillary didn't need to reach out more to disenfranchised millennials, fly-over-states, and thought saying "deplorable" was the best campaign move - especially the way the South took it as including every single one of them. Hillary carrying part of the largest blame for her privileged "Pied Piper" strategy (purposefully elevating Trump), and the media as well for spinning an Icarus tale.

As said, now it's up to Biden and boomers to prove they can take millennial issues seriously. Biden dug himself a hole and while I can't find the tweets that caught rapid-fire in calling him out since it was a while ago, here's comments from The Hill:

Biden on young people complaining they have it tough: 'Give me a break'

(go to comments box since apparently - can't link directly to them)

As said, I carry no issue with Biden -

I do, however, clearly see the baggage that he carries with him. He's going to need to prove that he actually does care about millennial issues by addressing them and showing that he sees the importance in them (not just giving lip service). If he can't do that, we're screwed since a candidate needs to be able to speak to all generations - that was one of the largest issues of 2015 - Hillary couldn't (nor could Bernie) and, at least, she didn't start off by saying she doesn't have empathy. GUARANTEED an opponent brings it up - it's way too easy of low-laying-fruit not to.

 

[moviedoors]

I'm not gonna say I have all the answers, but I am weary of the idea that a race to the center is the right way to go. That seems to be what Democrats always do, and look at what's happened to the "center": the Overton window is firmly in the right.

 

[AResistor]

I'm not gonna say I have all the answers, but I am weary of the idea that a race to the center is the right way to go. That seems to be what Democrats always do, and look at what's happened to the "center": the Overton window is firmly in the right.

Plus, it's beyond weird to ever think - "if we go further right, we'll get the Trump voters back!"

Because, let's face it - most of these brainwashed people ain't coming back. Trump's approval is about the same percent of the country that voted for him. The fluctuations are rather caused by the "respect the President, no matter who" loyalist people.

The people who matter aren't Trump voters - they're never coming around - they're non and protest voters (the largest group of the two).

 

[MaceB]

On the record, I didn't protest vote or not vote.

Sweet, glad to hear it. That's what a responsible adult would do.

I can, however, readily see why so many millennials didn't want to vote for her - especially when the media sold the narrative that Hillary was going to win no matter what happens.

So do I.

Protest voters do hold part of the blame,

Certainly do.

as do Clinton supporters for believing Hillary didn't need to reach out more to disenfranchised millennials, fly-over-states, and thought saying "deplorable" was the best campaign move - especially the way the South took it as including every single one of them. Hillary carrying part of the largest blame for her privileged "Pied Piper" strategy (purposefully elevating Trump), and the media as well for spinning an Icarus tale.

I don't think anyone was saying any of this though. No one was okay with Hillary neglecting the rust belt. No one said that saying "deplorable" was the best campaign move. You're trying to craft a narrative that didn't happen. Moderates weren't giving Hillary a free pass at all... they just acknowledged that she was the superior candidate, which she was.

As said, now it's up to Biden and boomers to prove they can take millennial issues seriously.

Why isn't it up to millennials to prove that they'll put their pet interests aside and do what's best for the country? And why wouldn't 50 years of service not overwrite one poorly worded but ultimately correct statement? If Biden hasn't proved to you yet that he has the integrity, experience, and knowledge to be President yet... then I doubt there's much that can be done. He's obviously the most qualified candidate... and there's no reason to assume he would pass policy that would be against millennial's interests.

Biden dug himself a hole and while I can't find the tweets that caught rapid-fire in calling him out since it was a while ago, here's comments from The Hill:

Biden on young people complaining they have it tough: 'Give me a break'

(go to comments box since apparently - can't link directly to them)

Like I said... lots of folks share your opinion. I'm not arguing that Biden will indeed lack millennial support in the primaries. I'm arguing that Biden is the most qualified candidate, and I'd like to give millennials the benefit of the doubt and assume they aren't going to protest vote again. If they do, I think that's on them honestly. I'm against identity politics and placating a particular subset of voter. We need to do what's best for the country as a whole, and Biden is arguably the one most likely to do that. You could argue that Bernie, Harris, or Warren are less likely to win, and if they did - they would be mired in opposition and more obstruction.

I do, however, clearly see the baggage that he carries with him. He's going to need to prove that he actually does care about millennial issues by addressing them and showing that he sees the importance in them (not just giving lip service).

If you're issue isn't lip service, then again I have to ask... do you have any policy disagreements with the former vice president? I would argue that 50 years of service already proves his policy goals and priorities. The fact that he has to bend over backwards because some people would rather value a benign sentence over decades of actual policy.... well that's silly and a poor demonstration of where we're at right now, culturally. You're really trying to get a lot of ground based on this one out of context statement. I don't see why it's Biden's job to explain to you something is very easily explained. At least not yet. If this actually turns into some massive issue, then he should clarify, and if that's not enough, then it should be.

If he can't do that, we're screwed since a candidate needs to be able to speak to all generations - that was one of the largest issues of 2015 - Hillary couldn't (nor could Bernie) and, at least, she didn't start off by saying she doesn't have empathy. GUARANTEED, an opponent brings it up - it's way too easy of low-laying-fruit not to.

Again, you're taking the quote out of context. And I'd argue that he has proven that he can legislate for all generations... through 50 years of service. What you're really arguing for is not a president who speaks to all generations, but one who caters to this specific generation.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm not gonna say I have all the answers, but I am weary of the idea that a race to the center is the right way to go. That seems to be what Democrats always do, and look at what's happened to the "center": the Overton window is firmly in the right.

And not exactly what the message from the midterms were.