"Probable Cause" Season 2: Episode 22 Discussion Thread

[SpaceWay2009]

Finally saw this episode. Thanks to the person for uploading part three.

Glad to see the Enforcers back. The new suits served a good purpose for Fancy Dan and Ox. Fancy Dan was able to move a lot quicker and bounce off walls. Ox was the same. He's still just a strong and big guy. Shocker was pretty much the same, except some thought his shock waves are different. More narrow and focused, I assume?

Sally finally showed some sympathy and care for Peter. She thought Peter got caught in the explosion. She gave him a hug at the end. Nice and touching.

Tinkerer has worked with the MP, and now with the Big Man. He created the suits for the Enforcers.

Overall, another great episode. Although, I have some questions. First, why did Hammerhead tell his driver to prevent the Enforcers' van from escaping? Second, I'm confused about the robbery scene. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Captain Stacy say that the three crooks (Enforcers) who robbed the bank did it to only distract the police from the laundromat store? I did not get that part.

 

[Anwar]

Stacy said they robbed the bank to cover up them really robbing that laundromat, which was a secret gold storage area.

As for Hammerhead, I think he did it to make it seem like Tombstone going directly to others for help instead of having him do it was a failure so Tombstone would go back to him as his right-hand man.

 

[varsas]

The laundrette contained the uniforms used in the gold heist. As for stopping the Enforcers, I'm guessing Hammerhead didn't want loose ends because they'd failed in their assignment.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Oh, that's right. That makes sense. Thanks Anwar and Varsas.

LOL...I guess this Gang war can get out of hand and confusing.

 

[Anwar]

Personally, I was hoping they'd go for a variant of what happened in the Owl/Octopus Gang War from the 80s: Black Cat was gunned down by Octopus' men, and Spidey got so PO'ed he RIPPED THE ENTIRE HARNESS right out of Ock's back.

I was hoping they'd have Stacy get injured here and Peter does it to Ock out of anger here. Maybe it would've been too gruesome...

 

[varsas]

Watching the episode again I think the Hammerhead is acting of his own accord because the Enforcers are acting directly on behalf of Tombstone and we know he doesn't like being kept out of the loop from earlier in the episode; also combined with that chat to Norman.

There is still the possibility of Captain Stacy being injured before the end of the season especially with his great involvement with Spidey and the return of the Green Goblin.

I noticed that the character of Alan O'Neil appears in the credits? Does anyone know who this is in the episode? I'm guessing the police officer that has a line after MJ and Mark Allan's chat?

 

[Webhead2006]

yea he is probably one of the cops who is he in the comics because pretty much all characters who have speaking roles/more then just one or two lines are someone from the comics.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Is this a ride-along or a "ride-along" ride-along? LOL

 

[Venom 1988]

The laundrette contained the uniforms used in the gold heist. As for stopping the Enforcers, I'm guessing Hammerhead didn't want loose ends because they'd failed in their assignment.

No he did that because, he was slowly trying to get back at The Big Man

 

[varsas]

No he did that because, he was slowly trying to get back at The Big Man

You should have read my second post.

 

[November Rain]

this one is meh but there's 2/3rds of ganglands on youtube.

it's questionably the greatest spiderman episode out there, with teh invisible hand

my only ever second 10 ep

 

[Anwar]

The third part is up, but by someone else.

 

[DW4]

Is this a ride-along or a "ride-along" ride-along? LOL

MJ would be one of those major teases in High School if she existed.

 

[stillanerd]

I'll try to keep this review/commentary short since there were two episodes this time around, but I'm sure that won't happen:

Spoiler

First of all, based on this episode's description, what with Peter and Sally Arvil going on a police ride-along with Captain Stacy, my initial belief was that this was going to be yet another story in which two people who don't like each other at all end up seeing things about one another they didn't initially realize. And sure enough, we sort of got this towards the end. Sure, Sally Arvil is annoying and obnoxious who is a firm believer that everyone shouldn't move past their station--at least with regards to the high school peking order--but she isn't completely callous as she genuinely believed Peter had been killed. Then again, we were told that she had concern for Peter last season when his Aunt May had a heart attack, so this revelation wasn't all that new. Of course, we get further hints that Captain Stacy may know Peter is Spider-Man with his comment about the auto function on the camera.

However, this didn't mean there wasn't some other interesting pairings in the police ride along and character revelations. For example, we see Mary Jane Watson and Mark Allen bond by agreeing to go out on a "non date-date," and it's pretty easy to see why MJ would go out with Mark considering he comes off as a pretty smooth operator. (Not to mention we get some innuendo commentary by one of the cops about this being a "ride along." t. Likewise, we see the awkward pairing of Liz Allen and Gwen Stacy, and here we see Liz's jealousy towards Gwen leak out in her insistence that she and Peter are a perfect couple.

But the more interesting and impactful ride-along occurs between Harry Osborn and Flash Thompson. Not only does the revelation that Harry has been "juicing" during the football games come to light, and thus possibly set him on the path to becoming the Green Goblin again, but that it becomes a character defining moment for Flash Thompson in that he's willing to tell the truth even at the cost of their state championship. And it's this action which finally makes Sha Shan agree to go out with him because, for all his buffonery, Flash is more of a stand-up guy than he lets on. It even gives us an opportunity to get some development for Jean DeWolfe and Stan Carter, with the former taking a strong anti-vigilante stance and the later hinting at signs of being fanatical about justice--very much like their comic book counterparts.

As for the villains, well having the Shocker's old partners Fancy Dan and Ox become Richochet and...well Ox was interesting enough, although it's still basically the Enforcers no matter the upgrade, and they were always pretty much C-listers to begin with. Still, Richochet was probably one of my favorite of the upgraded Enforcers as he basically was an evil version of Speedball. Not to mention we get another line of innuendo from Shocker ("Never touch another man's valuables!") and Ox humming the Spectacular Spider-Man theme in the elevator. t:

Finally, of course, there's Hammerhead and his jealousy towards the "freaks." Although it's understandable why he's upset that Tombstone would want to hire out supervillains while he feels left out, as well as Tombstone's disaproval for his botching the oil tanker heist, it does seem to be a sudden shift given that Hammerhead didn't have a problem when supervillains were being created with the help of Tombstone and Norman Osborn before. In fact, Hammerhead even goes to Norman for the same purpose (hinting that perhaps Norman will be revealed as the Green Goblin after all).

Anyways, this was another okay episode, but it could have been a bit better.

 

[Webhead2006]

nice review man.

 

[MasterGandalf]

Finally, of course, there's Hammerhead and his jealousy towards the "freaks." Although it's understandable why he's upset that Tombstone would want to hire out supervillains while he feels left out, as well as Tombstone's disaproval for his botching the oil tanker heist, it does seem to be a sudden shift given that Hammerhead didn't have a problem when supervillains were being created with the help of Tombstone and Norman Osborn before. In fact, Hammerhead even goes to Norman for the same purpose (hinting that perhaps Norman will be revealed as the Green Goblin after all).

I think that there's a couple of things behind Hammerhead's actions here- first off, it's less about being jealous of supervillains than it is being angry that he's being shut out of Tombstone's plans- Lincoln always used Hammy as his go-between with the enforcers, and when he starts doing it himself, he makes Hammerhead feel that Tombstone doesn't trust him anymore. Also, when the first supervillains were being created they all worked for the Big Man's mob, whereas now the supervillains have their own gang under the Master Planner and are a threat to the ordinary criminals' interests. In that context, I felt Hammerhead's actions made perfect sense

That's my take on it, anyway- feel free to disagree.

 

[stillanerd]

nice review man.

Thanks.

I think that there's a couple of things behind Hammerhead's actions here- first off, it's less about being jealous of supervillains than it is being angry that he's being shut out of Tombstone's plans- Lincoln always used Hammy as his go-between with the enforcers, and when he starts doing it himself, he makes Hammerhead feel that Tombstone doesn't trust him anymore. Also, when the first supervillains were being created they all worked for the Big Man's mob, whereas now the supervillains have their own gang under the Master Planner and are a threat to the ordinary criminals' interests. In that context, I felt Hammerhead's actions made perfect sense

That's my take on it, anyway- feel free to disagree.

Well, that IS a form of jealousy, IMO. Professional jealousy, but jealousy nevertheless. And like I said, I understand Hammerhead's motivations as you articulated (much better than I did BTW) but my misgiving has more to do with what seems like a real shift in character in that he's become an obedient lacky to a back-stabbing opportunist without much build-up.

 

[MasterGandalf]

I see your point, but I think that its Hammerhead himself who felt betrayed first. He's been Tombstone's loyal lacky for years, most likely- and more than that, he's basically been the public face of the Big Man's organization. When Tombstone seems to shut him out (which Lincoln probably meant as just a warning to straighten up), it probably cut very deep, and he sabotages the enforcers more out of spite than anything. It's Norman (and later the Goblin) who put the idea of actually taking over into his head. So I think its partly Hammerhead striking back out of anger at his boss for doubting him, and partly him being a pawn in a much smarter player's scheme, rather than a complete character shift.

Edit: And in Gangland, Tombstone himself recognizes that this is very out of character for Hammerhead, which is what leads him to suspect the involvement of another party (who turns out to be the Goblin).

 

[Persian]

I just got to watch this episode and I gottta say it was another solid endeavor offered by Weisman and Co. however, it was not as great as the some of the better episodes this season. I guess it was because of the villains involved. Lets' face it the Enforcers have been pretty unimportant and uninteresting in the comics. Of course they have tried to somehow upgrade them here but in mu opinion they are still lacking.

What this epi. shines at is the character development. The series sure needed an episode like this after the last two very action-packed episodes. As Peter himself puts it: " a very enlightening field trip". Now we know that Sally isn’t the "Monster" we all believed she was. She had some hilarious lines too. Also Flash had a great development which just added to his personality. Now I can accept and believe why Sha Shan may want to go out with him. Even Stan and Jean get to have a couple of lines here. ​

 

[varsas]

In fact, Hammerhead even goes to Norman for the same purpose (hinting that perhaps Norman will be revealed as the Green Goblin after all).

Hammerhead goes to Norman at the request of Tombstone; while doing so Norman adds fuel to the fire that leads to the Hamster's betrayal.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Finally got to see this episode in full now that part 3 is up on YouTube. It was a good episode. I liked the new Enforcers, although I prefer Shocker's old style of blasts.

Sally Avril is the epitome of annoying. I can't stand her. I loved Flash's development in this episode. Further hints about Captain Stacy knowing that Peter is Spidey. Great cliffhanger with Harry.

Overall I give it 7/10.

Couldn't have said it better myself . I also loved how Hammerhead betrayed the big Man and the new Enforces .

 

[Pirate Queen]

Two words that make this episode awesome:

Danny Trejo.

Is it just me, or did everything sound higher-pitched this time around? The theme, several voices including Peter's...

 

[Webhead2006]

maybe it was the file conversion or something was messed up for you.

 

[Mistah K88]

I felt that things were a tiny bit higher pitched as well (mostly Spidey's voice.)...I got used to it quickly as I was distracted by the good writing. I've heard that the television system (PAL?) in Europe and Australia runs things a bit faster.

 

[Venom 1988]

Yea its because they use PAL while we use NTSC