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Public Domain and the battle of 2019

This is a very interesting topic, have you guys heard of Amazon's Kindle Worlds?

They let authors sell fan fiction, but only titles they have. They are slowly growing (right now it looks like they just aquired G.I. Joe) and rumor has it they are working with WB since most of the properites they have now are CW tv shows, which means...yes, DC comics.
 
I think some kind of a compromise will be inevitable. I mean, people are complaining about Hollywood being stagnate now. Come back in a hundred years, when there will be almost nothing new in the public domain.

They will have to either change the law, or allow more people access to copyrighted properties.
 
The big thing is the creative aspect. Disney wouldn't be anything if it weren't for the public domain properties the had access to for decades, they and others are quite happy to exploit what's available now but they are not willing to give back when it's their turn to do so. It's kinda hypocritical in that sense. If Mickey Mouse becomes public domain who's to say that's a bad thing? It could be the springboard for something totally new.
 
Creator, and owner are two very different things.

Of course they are but if a creator sells his rights, or in some unfortunate cases, gives them up then the owner should have the same rights as the creator would have.

I believe the creator deserves certain rights. But once they die, that's it. Then it belongs to the world.

Then, in your case, I hope that when you die instead of your children the world should take your house, bank accounts, life insurance and any thing else you had. Why should 1 property be different from another?

I can only thank the public domain Judeo-Christian God I don't believe in that our ancestors didn't have your mindset. For one thing, you might not have your beloved Thor.

Of course I would, I like the original myths just as much as the comics. I just wouldn't have Marvel's version but I wouldn't know I was missing anything either. Although myths provide an interesting subject. They were originally used as religious stories that were meant to be believed as truth and usually started out being passed down orally so who can claim ownership of them?
 
Then, in your case, I hope that when you die instead of your children the world should take your house, bank accounts, life insurance and any thing else you had. Why should 1 property be different from another?

Exactly.

And the "stuff from antiquity" argument is a cop out. Obviously the line would be drawn somewhere or more accurately "somewhen" .But,if Shakespeare's decedents got the check and decided how his work would be used,it's only fair.

Is Sherlock Holmes in the public domain now?I remember Dame Jean having all the say as little as 10/20 years ago.But that's a good example there.Now we have 90 different versions of Holmes (and frankly I'm not a big fan of any of them) Do we really need that with Superman,Batman,etc?
 
Exactly.

And the "stuff from antiquity" argument is a cop out. Obviously the line would be drawn somewhere or more accurately "somewhen" .But,if Shakespeare's decedents got the check and decided how his work would be used,it's only fair.

Is Sherlock Holmes in the public domain now?I remember Dame Jean having all the say as little as 10/20 years ago.But that's a good example there.Now we have 90 different versions of Holmes (and frankly I'm not a big fan of any of them) Do we really need that with Superman,Batman,etc?

Yes, because look at those different versions of Holmes that we have gotten. Different versions bring unique perspectives and creative decisions that companies like DC wouldn't dare to do, not all of them are good, not all are bad, but it gives room for new interpretations and ideas. Darren Aronofsky wanted to do a take on Batman that was so out there it was never going to be given the green light from WB, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been a good story. The thing is characters are locked into a system which suffocates creativity, how many times in comics are characters killed off only to be brought back alive again a few years later. When was the last genuine new superhero character or animated WB or Disney character to emerge? As it stands now the system is meant to benefit the companies, most of whom benefited from public domain works in their early life whether it be stories or music, some like Disney still do with films like Frozen, but the problem is the companies aren't willing to give anything back into the very catalogue they themselves looked through for ideas. Eventually though they will have to hand over the characters, but that doesn't mean they'll never be associated with them and that's the mistake many of the companies are making, yes they'll lose money if someone else starts producing Mickey Mouse cartoons but Disney's name will still be associated with the character 100 years after. Arthur Conan Doyle is still known as the writer of Sherlock Holmes despite every man and his dog creating a version of the character.
 
Then, in your case, I hope that when you die instead of your children the world should take your house, bank accounts, life insurance and any thing else you had. Why should 1 property be different from another?


Except my house is a physical object, that I paid for (and it really can only be used by a handful of people in a physical capacity). Do I really have to explain how a thought or intellectual property is different from a tangible piece of property?

This conversation is becoming rather strange.
 
"You think just because you have an idea,that it belongs to you?" We've got a bunch of Obidiah Stanes in the house.:woot:
 
Except my house is a physical object, that I paid for (and it really can only be used by a handful of people in a physical capacity). Do I really have to explain how a thought or intellectual property is different from a tangible piece of property?

.

No, you just have to explain how ownership is different. By the way copyright applies to physical property as well. You can't copy write an idea in your head. You have to write a script or create an image that can be copyrighted at which point it becomes a physical property.
 
I don't want to get grand here, but the fact that we're here, talking about the past and law in such, owes much to the concept of people building on other people's concepts. I guess this is why the law, not I, says that intellectual properties eventually lapse into public domain, in darn near most countries. This is why, legally, they can''t change the duration of copyrights to "forever and ever", as I'm sure they'd like. Copyright is meant to give authors a TEMPORARY legal exclusivity on their intellectual property, most reasonably now considered within the author's lifetime + some amount of years in most places. This is not something I think. This is how it is.

It's unreasonable for descendants to own an IP forever. How many descendants must the author of "The Epic of Gilgamesh" have by now? Are you gonna cut each one a check? Yes, that was thousands of years ago. But so will be Batman, one day. So will be Robocop. So will be Avatar.

The only thing to wonder is if current copyright law is reasonable. Is it reasonable that a corporation can own an IP they didn't even create for 95 years, without having to use it or re-register it? Is it reasonable to not only alter the duration of said copyrights, but to do it retroactively so that it will affect works made before the law?

Now, some of you are worried about franchises being tarnished. Don't be. We already have Wonder Woman XXX. We already have all the bad fanfiction. I'm surprises at how much they can get away with on smut drawing, to the point of actively profiting from them. And I don't see anyone confusing that for the real stuff. You know what we don't have? A Batman film made by Sandy Corolla. You know, of "Batman Dead End" fame? Because Sandy Corolla would have been sued to ground beef had he taken his stuff to make a full featured film. No studio would have backed him using Batman. He wouldn't even have been able to get a Kickstarter going. His story ended up reasonably well, as he's working at Warner, even if not on Batman. But it goes to show you that besides low quality stuff and smut, there's also talented people, talented authors, who might have something to offer. Under previous law, Sandy Corolla would have been able to do most of the stuff from his World's Finest fauxtrailer into a fullblown movie, except, I guess, for Luthor's Armor, which is more modern, I think.

DC WB would always own "real" Batman, anyway. When his first comic goes Public Domain in the 2030s, you'll get to work with THIS while they work on all this, and more. Under previous law everything before 56 would be up for grabs. It's not like DC and Marvel haven't worked in public domain characters either. Blue Beetle and Doctor Nemesis, to say some.

I am not against copyright law. I don't think anyone here really is. But in my opinion, the law as it is is not benefiting the original authors who have died, on account of them being dead, and in cases of corporate ownership, the law is unreasonable to request at least some kind of re-registering of the work, or even usage of the work. But maybe I'm wrong, and it's reasonable to sit on an IP for nearly 2 lifetimes without doing anything with it, as it is in many cases. As they say in my country, like the Landlord's dog: not eating, not letting eat. I just think the law should be for the benefit of authors, and having a healthy public domain aids them more than it hinders them. On this, the law and I agree.

But I rant. I want to thank all those among you who signed the petition. I think sending a strong message out there about this stuff is important, and I could not do it alone.
 
No, you just have to explain how ownership is different. By the way copyright applies to physical property as well. You can't copy write an idea in your head. You have to write a script or create an image that can be copyrighted at which point it becomes a physical property.

This is beyond obvious.Not sure if people are being willfully obtuse here.
 
Everyone in this thread is really tense over a hypothetical scenario...one that has as much a chance of happening as a copy of the original London After Midnight being found.
 
It's unreasonable for descendants to own an IP forever. How many descendants must the author of "The Epic of Gilgamesh" have by now? Are you gonna cut each one a check? Yes, that was thousands of years ago. But so will be Batman, one day. So will be Robocop. So will be Avatar.
As I said before,that's a cop out.No one in their right mind wants nor expects them to retroactively award money for things created thousands of years ago.At the most,some families will sue for control of more recent works.(and it's not as if that doesn't go on already.)If they can prove it in a court of law,then yeah,cut them a check.

Now, some of you are worried about franchises being tarnished. Don't be. We already have Wonder Woman XXX. We already have all the bad fanfiction. I'm surprises at how much they can get away with on smut drawing, to the point of actively profiting from them. And I don't see anyone confusing that for the real stuff.

And that's a good point.The fan stuff exists by an large.It's not like it can't be done.But I can do without a thousand versions existing like Sherlock Holmes,where one is in the future,one is in the "steam punk" universe,one where Alfred is a 40 y/o Asian woman,etc.
 
Everyone in this thread is really tense over a hypothetical scenario...one that has as much a chance of happening as a copy of the original London After Midnight being found.

:funny:

I think it hits close to home for those of us who are writers.Now,I put a lot of heart and soul into my work (as I'm sure we all do) and I don't thrill at the idea that if (and yeah,it may be a huge IF) my stuff were successful either now or after my death,A. my family wouldn't be the one to profit and B.anyone could do as they please with my characters.
 
I write as well.

The has focus has been on theccorporate owned works and the implications and resultant hysteria over what would happen if the proverbial keys were handed over to the public. Again, properties owned by the big two are never going to be turned over to the public; and I'm fine with that. As for my own works, I don't agree with the near infinite hold the estates secure over texts. I'm sorry, but great-great grand children should not be profiting from the work of someone they did not know. This hold is problematic for scholarship; look at the case surrounding James Joyce.
 
I write as well.

The has focus has been on theccorporate owned works and the implications and resultant hysteria over what would happen if the proverbial keys were handed over to the public. Again, properties owned by the big two are never going to be turned over to the public; and I'm fine with that. As for my own works, I don't agree with the near infinite hold the estates secure over texts. I'm sorry, but great-great grand children should not be profiting from the work of someone they did not know. This hold is problematic for scholarship; look at the case surrounding James Joyce.

Well,I 'd prefer undeserving relatives to undeserving strangers.:woot:
 
I could stand copyright durations lasting nearly a century if at least they had to be registered for evidence of usage. As the law was, you'd have to re-register every 28 years or else it would lapse. If you're using it, naturally you would have the presence of mind to register it. 85 percent of all works lapsed this way, as many authors and owners where too busy, apathetic, or defunct to bother re-registering it.

This means that, as of this date, we'd be getting the first public domain videogames from the NES and Atari eras, as many companies from the time wouldn't have registered it. Instead, even if the company went under and all the owners and their heirs got eaten by alligators, you're supposed to wait 95 years until you can be sure no one's going to come out of the woodwork to sue you.

And yes, you can do non-for-profit "fanworks", but there's never a guaranty that you WON'T get hit with a cease and desist, often after the work is done or nearly done. For example, a couple of years back a couple of talented fans figured they'd do a fighting game starring modern horror icons, such as Freddy Kruegger and Chucky and such. But way after the game was nearly done, bam. Cease and desist. Even though the game didn't actively compete with any product starring the characters at the time. There's plenty of examples out there. For some reason a drawing of Chucky and Jason engaged in intercourse is okay, but a free videogame where they fight is taking it too far.

And it's sort of okay. I disagree with the companies actions here (because again, it was not for profit, and directly didn't compete with any fighitng games the companies had at the time), but they are within their legal right, and will be so for 95 years after their creation, according to current law. But as I see it, 95 years is too much. I think a maximum of 65 is more reasonable.

I also realize the Gilgamesh example was too far. Let's put it this way. Arronofsky's Noah will be public domain in 95 years. If Darren Arronofsky has 3 kids in the following 3 years (I honestly looked it up and came up empty), and each of those kids sire 3 children of their own in their early 20s, and each of those have 3 kids in their early 20s, how much of a percentage of the film does each person make? The answer is 0. The movie belongs to Paramount pictures. They'll pay him what they agreed to pay him. That's it.

We're talking about heirs now. Is comics really an industry where traditionally heirs get to live off of their father's creations?
 
By writing a story, you're adding to the culture of the world. By buying a house, you're buying a house.
 
Just so we're clear, are some people here actually seriously arguing for perpetual copyright? I just want to make sure what degree of lunacy we're dealing with here.
 
I think some kind of a compromise will be inevitable. I mean, people are complaining about Hollywood being stagnate now. Come back in a hundred years, when there will be almost nothing new in the public domain.

They will have to either change the law, or allow more people access to copyrighted properties.

Agreed.

Mike_D202 said:
This is a very interesting topic, have you guys heard of Amazon's Kindle Worlds?

That's a pioneering model. I think eventually most entertainment will have to turn in this direction.

Look at torrenting. It's not creating content, but the sheer theft is making copyright itself look weak.
 

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