Question About The Killing Joke...

[C. W. Saturn]

Batman is NOT for all ages.

Wrong, that's how the character was created. In fact there were special COMICS for ADULTS in the end 80s, called "Shadow of the Bat" and "Legends of the Dark Knight".

 

[Majic Walrus]

Wrong, that's how the character was created. In fact there were special COMICS for ADULTS in the end 80s, called "Shadow of the Bat" and "Legends of the Dark Knight".

If we talk about when Batman was created then we're talking about pulp magazines that by today's standard would be considered extremely violent (MAX comics from Marvel, Vertigo, Wildstorm, etc).

If we talk about the 80s Batman then specifically the two biggest selling Bat books were Shadow and Legend because they were aimed at adults.

But actually what I'm talking about is the modern Bat books. These books simply aren't designed to appeal to younger readers. Not because of explicit content but because of story content. The stories deal with mature themes and mysteries and crimes that are beyond a child's understanding.

Also I should mention that to me a "child" is someone below the age of 13.

 

[kguillou]

Even the 90's Batman cartoon wasn't very "kid-friendly", looking back on that show, it was pretty violent and mature for a saturday morning cartoon. But heck, despite that it was still a humongous hit among kids, i was like 6 years old when i watched it and i fell in love with Batman.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Batman is NOT for all ages.

Wrong, that's how the character was created.

Sorry but your misinformed.

Batman and many or the early comic book heroes were not created with children in mind.They were created for young adults.Which is evident by the early subjects in the first Batman stories.

Its why Batman was able to kill then.

And many of the early surerhero stories told had subject matter that was deemed questionable for young kids.

Batman was one of the reasons that the Comics Code Authority came into being. It was created to regulate the content of comic books in the U.S..

The CCA was created in 1954 in response to public concern about what was deemed inappropriate material in many comic books....due to no "small part" by the book Seduction of the Innocent written by Fredric Wertham.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_of_the_Innocent

The United States Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency held hearings in 1954 which focused specifically on comic books,Wertham appeared before the committee and used Batman as a prime example as to the cause of the corruption of Americas youth.He sired Batman for "living the gay dream" or words to that effect.

When the CCA was put into effect prohibited the presentation of "policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions ... in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority." It also dictated that super heroes should not kill or partake in flamboyant criminal actives.But it added the requirements that "in every instance good shall triumph over evil" and discouraged "instances of law enforcement officers dying as a result of a criminal's activities."

Batman became an "all ages" character but he was not created to be so.

 

[C. W. Saturn]

Sorry but your misinformed.

Batman and many or the early comic book heroes were not created with children in mind.They were created for young adults.Which is evident by the early subjects in the first Batman stories.

That's modern revisionism. Young soldiers AND young children read them. What early subjects do you mean? Vampires and non-graphic deaths? That wasn't really offensive in those days.

Its why Batman was able to kill then.

No. If it were, why did they change this?

And many of the early surerhero stories told had subject matter that was deemed questionable for young kids.

Exactly what? It was a different time.

Batman was one of the reasons that the Comics Code Authority came into being. It was created to regulate the content of comic books in the U.S..

You are misinformed. The main reason were EC COMICS where torture and graphic deaths were shown and those were marketed directly at kids. It even featured ads for knives. And BTW, DC supported the CCA, because so its biggest competitor (EC) would take heavy damage.

The United States Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency held hearings in 1954 which focused specifically on comic books,Wertham appeared before the committee and used Batman as a prime example as to the cause of the corruption of Americas youth.He sired Batman for "living the gay dream" or words to that effect.

Do you get it? "gay dream"! Not about violence or similar subjects.

When the CCA was put into effect prohibited the presentation of "policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions ... in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority." It also dictated that super heroes should not kill or partake in flamboyant criminal actives.But it added the requirements that "in every instance good shall triumph over evil" and discouraged "instances of law enforcement officers dying as a result of a criminal's activities."

When the CCA was invented Batman was a deputized special agent of the law for A LONG LONG time. Again, the CCA didn't prevent the creation of more sophisticated comic books, it's just that they SOLD millions of these Silver Age Batman comics. All these restriction may have lessened the freedom of storytelling, but in the end it's not the whole reason for the Silver Age-styled comic books.

BTW: Do not confuse Wertham's actions with the CCA. Wertham fought against superhero comics, that's right, but his main goal were the gruesome horror/crime comics directly sold at kids. He revealed that stores where even held for ransom to SELL these comics to kids and if they refused they would not get other titles to sell.

Batman became an "all ages" character but he was not created to be so.

He always was.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

That's modern revisionism. Young soldiers AND young children read them.

Yes young children read them but as I said they were not written with children in mind nor were the characters created for children.

What early subjects do you mean? Vampires and non-graphic deaths? That wasn't really offensive in those days.

They were considered offensive for children to read.

No. If it were, why did they change this?

Public demand.Simply put the public opinion on how comic's effected the children reading them was not favorable.

Further more the pratice of many publishers, marketing the books twards children and still having adult subject matter was deemed unethical.

Much as the Camel cigarettes adds with "Joe Cool" would late be looked at by the public.

Exactly what? It was a different time.

War,revenge,murder,public official corruption.

You are misinformed. The main reason were EC COMICS where torture and graphic deaths were shown and those were marketed directly at kids.It even featured ads for knives

I'm not misinformed because I said Batman was "ONE" of the reasons not the "MAIN" reason.

And BTW, DC supported the CCA, because so its biggest competitor (EC) would take heavy damage.

Whats your point.

I made no refrance to any publishers response or views on thr CCA.

Do you get it? "gay dream"! Not about violence or similar subjects.

And again I dont get your point.

I never said that the violence of "Batman comics" was even mentioned.

But the violence in all comics was a major contributing factor to the creation of the CCA.And once the CCA was in place any comic with hopes of being sold to a vast market had to adhere to its guidelines.

When the CCA was invented Batman was a deputized special agent of the law for A LONG LONG time. Again, the CCA didn't prevent the creation of more sophisticated comic books, it's just that they SOLD millions of these Silver Age Batman comics. All these restriction may have lessened the freedom of storytelling, but in the end it's not the whole reason for the Silver Age-styled comic books.

Your points seem to keep getting lost.

I was talking about the golden age Batman.

But the CCA did in fact prevent the telling of more sophisticated stories.

BTW: Do not confuse Wertham's actions with the CCA. Wertham fought against superhero comics, that's right, but his main goal were the gruesome horror/crime comics directly sold at kids. He revealed that stores where even held for ransom to SELL these comics to kids and if they refused they would not get other titles to sell.

I'm very aware of his main objectives.But there's nothing to be confused about.He attacked "Super hero" comics to bring light to his main goal.

He always was.

Not when he was created.

The tittle in which Batman made his first appearance, Detective Comics, had always been geared twards young adults.

And the first Batman stories told in that title were no different then the stories told before his first appearance.

Now if your saying that those that marketed Batman had hopes that children would take a liking to him then I would say yes.

But "Batman" as he was first written,and his original concept was designed,as he was intended to be was not a character for all ages.

 

[C. W. Saturn]

I was talking about the golden age Batman.

Yeah, the one who ran around smiling with Robin and appeared in public hearings and gave judo lessons to the police department.

To the rest: I am not going to argue with you. Believe what you want.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Yeah, the one who ran around smiling with Robin and appeared in public hearings and gave judo lessons to the police department.

And you just proved my point.

By the time Batman was doing those things he had "BECOME" a all ages character.

But before that, when he was created, he was ment for young adults.

The killing,gun shooting,tossing bad guys out of windows and womem slapping Batman was not created for children.

I'll admit it didnt take long for him to turn kid friendly but that doesnt change the fact that the character was created in a book that was targeted at young adults.

And the subject matter of the early stories were also targeted at a more mature reader.

To the rest: I am not going to argue with you. Believe what you want.

That would be wise