Religious Figures

[The Geek Vault]

Wow I love the way this conversation is going! I def. agree that they should not be scared to use God in a comic. What I'm wondering is if they use Jesus? Does this make the other realigions untrue in the Marvel or Dc U? On a side note I was thinkin about Harry Potter and They celebrate christmas right? So does this mean that wizards believe in Jesus? Was Jesus considered a Wizard? Were Adam and Eve considered to be in the Slytherin house? Where are all the jewish and hindu wizards?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think all other religions would necessarily be invalidated if Jesus were real in the Marvel universe. Muhammad, Buddha, Moses, and all the other religious figures could've existed and done all the things they're credited with, too. The way DC handles things where those religions would conflict, like the afterlife, is to just have each person determine their own thing. Christians go to the afterlife and its whatever Heaven they want it to be, Muslims go to their afterlife and get their 72 virgins, etc. Atheists go to someplace nondenominationally pleasant where they'll be happy, I guess. Speedsters go to the Speed Force, which intersects with the main afterlife somehow, since Barry Allen was in both, talking to Wally from the Speed Force and hanging out with Green Arrow in the afterlife.

It all comes down to whatever floats each particular person's boat, which makes sense. There's no way a single afterlife would please everybody, just as there's no way any single anything would please everybody. Everyone has their quirks, and if a place or religion is aiming for true, absolute happiness, it's gotta be malleable.

 

[The Geek Vault]

ah that's pretty cool! So if your christian could you go to a buddhist afterlife?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess if you really wanted to, but it seems unlikely that there would be any devout Christians who are just aching to go to some other religion's afterlife.

 

[The Geek Vault]

Alright I got a good one. Would it be innappropriate for God/ Jesus to come in and stop some huge conflict in a comic. For instance in civil war would you have been majorly pissed if in the midst of battle a light just came through the sky and told the heroes to stop.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes. Allowing religious figures to exist in comics is one thing, but it's generally assumed that they ought to stick to the same roles regarding direct action that they have in real life: absolutely none at all. If Jesus came down and worked as a magical cure-all for the people of Earth, it'd not only make for lame stories, it'd cripple mankind as a whole, as we saw when Thor gained nigh-biblical power, lost his human perspective, and remade the world as a utopia by handling all the world's problems. Of course, that had the side-effect of making the human race a bunch of stupid, backwards cattle, the majority of whom couldn't do anything for themselves.

But Jesus knows this all already. He's the one who gave us that whole spiel about teaching a man to fish, remember?

 

[The Geek Vault]

I see. That's a good point dude! Also in the Marvel U I've always wondered why Thor or the more god-like characters don't have more followers? Like I mean tech Thor could count as a god ya know?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor does count as a god. People just don't believe he's a god; they believe he's just another one of the superhuman weirdos running around fighting each other all the time. He does still have some followers, though. A cult called Thorites sprung up around him when he started ending droughts and stuff on the road to doing everything for everyone. They've probably all dispersed back to whatever modern religions they came from since that all ended, though.

 

[The Geek Vault]

Ah,
That's what I've always wondered, I mean I know Storm has a huge following as a goddess. Does she count as a Godess though? I mean when would you define somone as a god or goddes??

 

[SuperFerret]

When they have divine origins, like Thor.

 

[The Geek Vault]

What's a divine orgins?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Storm's powers come from an X-gene, making her a mutant. Thor's powers come from divine birthright as the son of Mother Nature and Odin. They're magical in origin. Gods tend to be magical beings, whereas Storm is a wholly biological mutant.

 

[BrianWilly]

What's a divine orgins?

It's when a god and a goddess fall in love with each other and have a baby god.

Storm doesn't count as a true goddess, even if she were worshipped that way, because she had perfectly mortal parents and she herself is completely mortal. Her powers come from her mutation, the X-gene, and she has no powers beyond that.

Being a god in the Marvel universe isn't just a state of being that comes from being worshiped; it's an actual "species" of individuals.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I meant Ghost Rider. At least, that's the only time I know of a dude calling himself Lucifer or Satan and no one behind the scenes at Marvel objecting via a little box or Handbook entry that says he's just some other demon masquerading as Satan.

Given the recent big revelation concerning GR, it seems we may be seeing more of the Judeo-Christian guys upstairs, too. I still don't really like that Mephisto's role in his origin was changed to Lucifer with no explanation whatsoever, but it's nice that at least one book is integrating some modern theology into the Marvel universe.

Ghost Rider is the biggest offender here (mostly under Daniel Way's writing).

In the comic Vraniel an Emmael (two angels) were 'emaculately concepted' by a virgin. Ghost Rider and an Illinois Sherrif blew up a church...Ghost Rider impaled and blew up Lucifer on a burning cross. A satanically possessed Priest was drowning Christians in a lake during their Baptism...In the Howard Mackie years Reverend Styge cannabalized and engorged himself on church goers. Hellgate's goons desecrated a church and beat up a Priest in Dan Ketch's church. Noble Kale's non-Christian wife was burned at the stake by Puritanical Christians. Ennis referred to Ghost Rider as an eternal God and force of nature that could not and can never be stopped.

Theres a lot of Angels and Demons in Ghost Rider...Uriel, Daniel, Zadkiel (cursed JB) Malachi (murderer), Kazan (murderer), Vraniel, Emmael, Ruth (murderer). In the 70s, Jesus aka "Friend" helped Johnny Blaze.

I don't think you can get more offensive than Ghost Rider in the Marvel Universe. Personally I could care less about religious undertones because to me, Ghost Rider is fictional, the characters in the comics are fictional, and the story's are fictional. Anybody who tries to smudge that line should not be reading comics to begin with.

 

[sandwraith]

The 72 Virgins bit is debatable. I'm a Muslim, not a great one I admit but even I don't like the idea of dying and going to Heaven for some Virginal ***kfest. A German-Turkish study claims that the "Virgins" in question might actually be a fruit of sort which makes a lot more sense to me. Islam is pretty strict about vegetation and trees and shiyte (a testament to its desert origins) so I can buy that. 72 Virgins? Dunno, sounds like fabrication monks and Sufis tell themselves for sacrificing the need for Earthly *****.

 

[Anubis]

I loved that part in Chronicles of Wormwood where the Anti-Christ, Jesus, and the Anti-Christs talking Rabbit friend went on a road trip through the afterlife and stopped off in heaven. There they met this Suicide Bomber begging them to give him a hand with his 72 Virgins, all of which were babies. Oh the Irony.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

lulz, yeah. Regarding Ghost Rider and its extreme treatment of all things religious, I think Way's just trying to ape Garth Ennis again. Only Way's not as clever as Ennis, so he gives us GR blowing up churches while Ennis gives us 72 baby virgins in Muslim Heaven.

 

[PhotoJones]

I loved that part in Chronicles of Wormwood where the Anti-Christ, Jesus, and the Anti-Christs talking Rabbit friend went on a road trip through the afterlife and stopped off in heaven. There they met this Suicide Bomber begging them to give him a hand with his 72 Virgins, all of which were babies. Oh the Irony.

CoW was one of the funniest reads of this past year, for me.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, it was awesome. It's not every day you see a chronic *********ing God descending from the heavens.

 

[The Geek Vault]

Anubis, after looking at your current Avy. I was wondering, What realigion is superman? I mean he's from a different planet, so yeah?

 

[The Question]

Anubis, after looking at your current Avy. I was wondering, What realigion is superman? I mean he's from a different planet, so yeah?

But he was raised on ours. Most of the time, he is portrayed as a Christian, albeit a fairly casual one who leads a generally secular life.

 

[sandwraith]

Superman is apparently a Methodist. This site is pretty detailed:

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html

 

[hulkamania85]

Alright I got a good one. Would it be innappropriate for God/ Jesus to come in and stop some huge conflict in a comic. For instance in civil war would you have been majorly pissed if in the midst of battle a light just came through the sky and told the heroes to stop.

Yes, for the same reason it would be innappropriate in any other story: deus ex machinas are generally weak, and if God does indeed exist He doesn't interfere like this in the first place, so for the sake of decent storytelling it should be assumed He wouldn't outright interfere in the lives of superheroes either.

I'm Christian but the Thor thing doesn't bother me, because you can assume that the Asgardians are just really powerful beings while not actually being deities, and besides it's just a comic and plenty of other Christian comic fans probably haven't had a problem with it either.

On the other hand Preacher is something I have no desire to read, because it seems overhyped and offensive for the sake of being offensive, which happens too much in comics sometimes IMO.

 

[Obi-Ron]

In the comic Vraniel an Emmael (two angels) were 'emaculately concepted' by a virgin.

"Emmaculate Conception" refers to Mary being conceived without Original Sin, not her conceiving Jesus. Your statement makes no sense.

 

[Anubis]

Yes, for the same reason it would be innappropriate in any other story: deus ex machinas are generally weak, and if God does indeed exist He doesn't interfere like this in the first place, so for the sake of decent storytelling it should be assumed He wouldn't outright interfere in the lives of superheroes either.

I'm Christian but the Thor thing doesn't bother me, because you can assume that the Asgardians are just really powerful beings while not actually being deities, and besides it's just a comic and plenty of other Christian comic fans probably haven't had a problem with it either.

On the other hand Preacher is something I have no desire to read, because it seems overhyped and offensive for the sake of being offensive, which happens too much in comics sometimes IMO.

If you feel that way without already reading it, then yeah, you probably shouldn't. But then again, at least you'd have nine books to contribute to the next book burning.