Ridley Scott's "Alien: Covenant" (Oct 6, 2017) - Part 4

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]524737[/split]

 

[DA_Champion]

Perhaps as an active scientist I have trouble with these things. I literally see so many mistakes that I'm used to ignoring them. I see the mistakes people see and the mistakes people don't.

But for the general public, there is a less complete awareness of science. So what filmmakers need to do is to not make the mistakes in the areas that people know about, but they can get away with making as many science errors as they want in the areas that people don't know about. It's a difficult task to manage.

For example with Interstellar, people were angry about the lack of spaghettification, but that was actually correct in the movie and not an error. On the other hand, there were clouds made of ice on the second planet, I'm pretty sure that this was wrong, but audiences did not care.

So anyway, the lack of helmets is bad because it's a genuine scientific error and the viewing public is aware of that issue.

For myself, Alien Covenant opened with cryosleep, neutrino storms, and spaceships randomly changing course to explore planets they discovered from interstellar space. At that point on I shut off scientific criticism. It was like watching Star Wars for me.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The score for this film is really good.

 

[TheVileOne]

I do like the score for the film and the way it mixes Alien and Prometheus' themes.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I do like the score for the film and the way it mixes Alien and Prometheus' themes.

Yeah I will give the movie that. The score was a good transition between all the movies.

 

[TheVileOne]

To be fair, there were things I like about the movie from a technical perspective. Good production values and fairly good visual effects, apart from some of the creature CG. Scott's work ethic at his age still really impresses me even if I find the movie very problematic.

And yeah, the score really worked for me more than anything else. Apart from the score, I think it had a fairly good sense of ambiance and atmosphere.

 

[dude stannis]

For myself, Alien Covenant opened with cryosleep, neutrino storms, and spaceships randomly changing course to explore planets they discovered from interstellar space. At that point on I shut off scientific criticism. It was like watching Star Wars for me.

I'd have to imagine the entire franchise is rife with all kinds of scientific inaccuracy?

 

[Teelie]

There are a lot of inaccuracies but some are more blatant or contradictory than others.

 

[Sithborg]

Finally saw it. I enjoyed it. I do have some issues with it, but some of them are nitpicks.

 

[mikeboydus]

Perhaps as an active scientist I have trouble with these things. I literally see so many mistakes that I'm used to ignoring them. I see the mistakes people see and the mistakes people don't.

But for the general public, there is a less complete awareness of science. So what filmmakers need to do is to not make the mistakes in the areas that people know about, but they can get away with making as many science errors as they want in the areas that people don't know about. It's a difficult task to manage.

For example with Interstellar, people were angry about the lack of spaghettification, but that was actually correct in the movie and not an error. On the other hand, there were clouds made of ice on the second planet, I'm pretty sure that this was wrong, but audiences did not care.

So anyway, the lack of helmets is bad because it's a genuine scientific error and the viewing public is aware of that issue.

For myself, Alien Covenant opened with cryosleep, neutrino storms, and spaceships randomly changing course to explore planets they discovered from interstellar space. At that point on I shut off scientific criticism. It was like watching Star Wars for me.

I do the same thing but from a military perspective. I can't even get through films like The Hurt Locker, because they are so incredibly stupid. I provided security for and worked with EOD teams in real life in Afghanistan and it is absolutely nothing like that ludicrous film.

I also pointed out absurdities in Alien Covenant, where they downgraded from Prometheus which had futuristic weapons to using real life AR-15 type rifles in Covenant. Its as silly if someone made Black Hawk Down, but they were using bolt action Springfield rifles from WW1.

Oddly, its also one of the reasons I and many other veterans enjoy Aliens so much. That film has several nuances thanks to a good military advisor, the actor who portrayed Apone. The interaction, comradery and humor from the Marines feels very authentic.

I have to turn my brain off at times though and just enjoy the film, e.g. Commando, Rambo, Independence Day, etc.

 

[kguillou]

So I finally got around to watching this. Admittedly, you guys had somewhat deterred any urgency for me to see this in theaters, so I took my time. I was expecting an absolute trainwreck from most of the Hypsters' tepid reaction to this. My reaction? I quite enjoyed it. In fact, i'd say it's very enjoyable but it's not great and def has issues.

I'm a big fan of Alien, Aliens and I actually really liked Prometheus, but I'm not a fanboy of the Alien mythology and not beholden to it in any way. If Ridley Scott doesn't want to explain the meaning of Life and who created us--fine. If he doesn't wanna answer anything from Prometheus---fine. I go into these movies just wanting a good, visceral horror/action thriller. Alien Covenant succeeds at that....at points. There are some truly great moments of horror and tension and Scott's atmospheric cinematography makes this a visually engaging film to watch. Even the score, I found was very good and enhanced the tension at the appropriate moments.

For me, this movie had one big mortal sin that prevented it from being great: the characters. I just was not emotionally invested with this cast, which is shocking because I watched the prologue short with the crew bonding and I thought for sure this crew was going to be perhaps the most endearing crew we've had since Aliens. But the thing is, Scott doesn't seem interested in making these characters three dimensional,the movie almost feels like it is on a time constraint and there are ten-twenty vital minutes of character building missing. i think the other problem is that the movie starts out on such a dark note that we don't get to see this cast/crew bond and get a feel for who these people are, so when they perish, you're like "meh, who was that again?"

I think more three dimensional, more endearing characters would've made this a truly great thriller, but nonetheless, I think the film still provides great, bloody thrills and beautiful cinematography and Michael Fassenbender might just be one of modern cinema's great villains. He is a force to be reconned with and there were a few twists in this movie involving him that genuinely surprised me. If not for Fassenbender this thing would've fell completely flat.

Solid 7.5/10 for me. Could've been a 9 with better character development.

P.S. uhhh can someone tell me what the point of casting James Franco was? Also, I could've SWORN I had read that Noomi Rapace had a short role in this as well? Wasn't she on set?

 

[TheVileOne]

Well we do see Shaw in the movie briefly, and in the prologue that was released online.

 

[gwynplaine]

So I finally got around to watching this. Admittedly, you guys had somewhat deterred any urgency for me to see this in theaters, so I took my time. I was expecting an absolute trainwreck from most of the Hypsters' tepid reaction to this. My reaction? I quite enjoyed it. In fact, i'd say it's very enjoyable but it's not great and def has issues.

I'm a big fan of Alien, Aliens and I actually really liked Prometheus, but I'm not a fanboy of the Alien mythology and not beholden to it in any way. If Ridley Scott doesn't want to explain the meaning of Life and who created us--fine. If he doesn't wanna answer anything from Prometheus---fine. I go into these movies just wanting a good, visceral horror/action thriller. Alien Covenant succeeds at that....at points. There are some truly great moments of horror and tension and Scott's atmospheric cinematography makes this a visually engaging film to watch. Even the score, I found was very good and enhanced the tension at the appropriate moments.

For me, this movie had one big mortal sin that prevented it from being great: the characters. I just was not emotionally invested with this cast, which is shocking because I watched the prologue short with the crew bonding and I thought for sure this crew was going to be perhaps the most endearing crew we've had since Aliens. But the thing is, Scott doesn't seem interested in making these characters three dimensional,the movie almost feels like it is on a time constraint and there are ten-twenty vital minutes of character building missing. i think the other problem is that the movie starts out on such a dark note that we don't get to see this cast/crew bond and get a feel for who these people are, so when they perish, you're like "meh, who was that again?"

I think more three dimensional, more endearing characters would've made this a truly great thriller, but nonetheless, I think the film still provides great, bloody thrills and beautiful cinematography and Michael Fassenbender might just be one of modern cinema's great villains. He is a force to be reconned with and there were a few twists in this movie involving him that genuinely surprised me. If not for Fassenbender this thing would've fell completely flat.

Solid 7.5/10 for me. Could've been a 9 with better character development.

P.S. uhhh can someone tell me what the point of casting James Franco was? Also, I could've SWORN I had read that Noomi Rapace had a short role in this as well? Wasn't she on set?

Good review

 

[David H.]

P.S. uhhh can someone tell me what the point of casting James Franco was? Also, I could've SWORN I had read that Noomi Rapace had a short role in this as well? Wasn't she on set?

I almost feel like Franco was trying to "Bill Murray" it, thinking his presence was enough to make the moment interesting but it failed miserably (McBride's involvement also hurt that scene for me, though he's quite good for the rest of the movie).

Agreed on the character development. Crudup's particularly.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

Is it weird that Prometheus and Covenant kind of take away something from me in the other films? I know most hate Alien 3, but I really enjoy it, weird Alien effects aside. That said, and this is not a religious discussion so please don't make it into one, the prisoners on "Fury" found God to atone for their sins. Even assuming you don't believe in anything, in the context of Alien 3 the prisoners story to me comes off more interesting in their beliefs and the fact some of them consider this their divine punishment for their crimes. With Prometheus, and the answer that human life was a product of the Engineers, and current Xenomorph life was a product of David, I feel like that takes away from a film like Alien3 a bit.
Then again, I think Prometheus was just ok and the more I've thought, the more I really didn't like Covenant, so maybe I'm just not a fan of the direction Scott wants these films to take. Give me Aline 3 or AvP any day.

 

[dude stannis]

Solid 7.5/10 for me. Could've been a 9 with better character development.

100% in agreement with your review, though I'd say Billy Crudup's Chris Oram is a well written and acted character.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I don't think the Engineers existence takes away from the concept of God within the Alien universe. Shaw even brings up that very point in a discussion with Charlie in Prometheus, that if the Engineers created life, who created them? If you break it down, we are created by our parents' combined genetic material in the act of biological reproduction. That can be planned or it can be accidental, but people of faith would still argue that whatever the case we are still ultimately created by the divine and that it's all in accordance with some greater plan. That would still apply, with the Engineers in this scenario serving as the parents, humanity their children.

It really has no bearing on Alien 3 and Dillon's flock, because the question of God's existence is irrelevant to that storyline. The whole point is that the prisoners belief has brought them some measure of redemption and drives them to stop the Xenomorph.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Is it weird that Prometheus and Covenant kind of take away something from me in the other films? I know most hate Alien 3, but I really enjoy it, weird Alien effects aside. That said, and this is not a religious discussion so please don't make it into one, the prisoners on "Fury" found God to atone for their sins. Even assuming you don't believe in anything, in the context of Alien 3 the prisoners story to me comes off more interesting in their beliefs and the fact some of them consider this their divine punishment for their crimes. With Prometheus, and the answer that human life was a product of the Engineers, and current Xenomorph life was a product of David, I feel like that takes away from a film like Alien3 a bit.
Then again, I think Prometheus was just ok and the more I've thought, the more I really didn't like Covenant, so maybe I'm just not a fan of the direction Scott wants these films to take. Give me Aline 3 or AvP any day.

I actually thought Prometheus brought something extra to the franchise. A fascination about why the Xeno's were created and how. Covenant really dropped the ball on all of that.

And as Roose said, God wasn't dismissed in Prometheus, as Shaw said, who created The Engineers?

 

[moreorless]

I don't think the Engineers existence takes away from the concept of God within the Alien universe. Shaw even brings up that very point in a discussion with Charlie in Prometheus, that if the Engineers created life, who created them? If you break it down, we are created by our parents' combined genetic material in the act of biological reproduction. That can be planned or it can be accidental, but people of faith would still argue that whatever the case we are still ultimately created by the divine and that it's all in accordance with some greater plan. That would still apply, with the Engineers in this scenario serving as the parents, humanity their children.

It really has no bearing on Alien 3 and Dillon's flock, because the question of God's existence is irrelevant to that storyline. The whole point is that the prisoners belief has brought them some measure of redemption and drives them to stop the Xenomorph.

The problem really I'd say is that the original film worked in a very Lovecraftian fashion making the background of the Alien/Derelict/Jockey this terrifying unknown.

To actually take on the task of actually filling in the details to such an unknown is obviously very difficult and for me Prometheus ends up feeling rather too straight forward. What I'v have liked to see is something more along the lines of stranger Lynch or Cronenberg, mind shredding psychosexual horror with loads of Gigeresque designs.

Aliens was really a side step to that being a more down to earth film rather than dealing with the Aliens background and I'd agree even though I'm just a civy the military aspect to it did feel very real.

 

[Roose Bolton]

The problem really I'd say is that the original film worked in a very Lovecraftian fashion making the background of the Alien/Derelict/Jockey this terrifying unknown.

To actually take on the task of actually filling in the details to such an unknown is obviously very difficult and for me Prometheus ends up feeling rather too straight forward. What I'v have liked to see is something more along the lines of stranger Lynch or Cronenberg, mind shredding psychosexual horror with loads of Gigeresque designs.

Aliens was really a side step to that being a more down to earth film rather than dealing with the Aliens background and I'd agree even though I'm just a civy the military aspect to it did feel very real.

Sure you argue that, and I absolutely agree with you on the Lovecraftian aspect of the first film and how no instalment in the franchise since has touched that, including Prometheus. And outside of Sigourney Weaver's ....performance...in Alien Resurrection, they've largely been bereft of the psychosexual elements that are inherent with Giger's influence.

Aliens, I think, seemed to gravitate more to the low-tech feel of the original film and ran with that than anything else. The sense that it was a working class Sci-fi universe.

 

[TheVileOne]

Is it weird that Prometheus and Covenant kind of take away something from me in the other films? I know most hate Alien 3, but I really enjoy it, weird Alien effects aside. That said, and this is not a religious discussion so please don't make it into one, the prisoners on "Fury" found God to atone for their sins. Even assuming you don't believe in anything, in the context of Alien 3 the prisoners story to me comes off more interesting in their beliefs and the fact some of them consider this their divine punishment for their crimes. With Prometheus, and the answer that human life was a product of the Engineers, and current Xenomorph life was a product of David, I feel like that takes away from a film like Alien3 a bit.
Then again, I think Prometheus was just ok and the more I've thought, the more I really didn't like Covenant, so maybe I'm just not a fan of the direction Scott wants these films to take. Give me Aline 3 or AvP any day.

No, it's not weird at all.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Glad someone bumped this thread. Kept meaning to find it after I saw the movie. It was f***ing horrible. Worse than Prometheus and possibly every other Alien movie, save Resurrection. Time to stick a fork in this franchise.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Still irks me how lazy this film was and how one-dimensional most of the characters were.

David playing God is boring.

 

[DarkKnight]

So I was finally able to watch this film after being so excited for it for so long.
I liked it a lot, didn't love it, but I say based on my opinion its the 3rd best film of the series since Alien and Aliens. So that's a positive.
There were some things I didn't like and many things are still unexplained (which I'm guessing they are leaving open for a "Prometheus 3") and that's fine. I'm more than willing to see another film and continuation of this story.

Spoiler

I still want to see how and why the Space Jockey/Engineer crashes with the Alien as seen in the first Alien film which has yet to be explained in these films

It wasn't the film I expected and it wasn't the film I wanted, but I still enjoyed it and found it to be a really good film. Hope for further explanation (based on my spoiler tag above).