Robert Downey Jr. Is Doom - "Same task, new mask"

[kguillou]

I just watched the Hall H panel. Joe and Anthony Russo specifically call him "Victor Von Doom," so RDJ is playing a version of Victor not a Tony Stark variant...assuming we are to take Joe and Anthony's words literally.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just watched the Hall H panel. Joe and Anthony Russo specifically call him "Victor Von Doom," so RDJ is playing a version of Victor not a Tony Stark variant...assuming we are to take Joe and Anthony's words literally.

You can call a tiger a zebra. It's still a tiger. To any casual audience member, he is just evil Iron Man. Which is what Marvel wants the casuals to think.

 

[Zantera]

Yeah they can call it whatever they want and it doesn't make it less weird. What's next, they're gonna have Chris Evans play the silver surfer?

 

[Dark Raven]

I think they're taking aspects of Kang and importing them onto Doom. Iron Lad was a version of Kang, and didn't iron Man become Kang or influenced by him in some version? So I think they're switching that to Iron Man being associated with Doom.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I think it's silly that people are assuming this is a panicked pivot away from Kang. Doom always played a massive role in Secret Wars, as a surprise villain to take over from the main villain (The Beyonder). I was always assuming Kang was going to be a red herring villain, with Doom stepping forward for Secret Wars.

So with the Kang change, I'm guessing they're simply removing the first step of hanging it all on Kang? But there's still a lot we don't know and I think one major missing piece of that puzzle will be the F4. Both Kang and Doom have obvious lore ties to Reed Richards and the F4, and with the 60's setting (in a different universe too) there's obviously a very specific plan in place here, which makes this approach seem more like rebranding rather than a desperate pivot.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this was something in the works anyway. For the years since Endgame, we've seen so much discourse about whether Iron Man would ever come back, whether RDJ ever came back, whether the Russo's would ever come back. The Russos stance was that they would MAYBE come back for a Secret Wars movie. And they have also been VERY against brining back Tony Stark. So for them to be suddenly championing RDJ as this different iconic role, I would be surprised if it was a total backflip rather than a creative idea that genuinely excites them?

I also think this idea of a Stark variant being a Doctor Doom variant that becomes the God Emperor of Secret Wars is more exciting when you think about the ripples that would send through the remaining characters. I think we can definitely assume that Secret Wars will "Reset" the MCU in a way (Most likely mash together most of the disparate Marvel universes e.g. F4, X-Men etc) into one united universe, tidy up the canon (and maybe even recast any characters that it could make sense for). So the idea of bringing back the man who began this universe and having him play a figure that tries to destroy it, is kind of the perfect synergistic theme to bring the Multiverse Saga to an end (thankfully.)

Anyway, I think seeing the sheer number of "WTF" reactions from people, I'm also willing to guess this was part of the plan. Shock everyone, get people talking and exciting about the MCU again. Bring people back to cinemas just to see what the hell is going on. And from there, I would be very surprised if there aren't more shocks planned.

 

[TheVileOne]

If anything these are the actors should prioritized in getting recasted in another role. Like for crying out loud you guys have had Mads right there available for the last 8 years. And he's said in an interview earlier this year he'd would be open to doing another Marvel movie.

They should've prioritized finding better roles for them in the first place instead of wasting them.

 

[TheVileOne]

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I don't think there is any scenario where they bring back RDJ for this stunt and he's not THE Doctor Doom through both Avengers movies.

If they do this as some sort of bait and switch, I will find that really ridiculous. You can't toy with your audience like that.

 

[jerkhero]

This could work for me if RDJ is actually Victor Von Doom and keeps his mask on. Too bad MCU characters can't keep their helmets and masks on for two minutes, let alone an entire movie.

 

[Arachnerd]

I think it's silly that people are assuming this is a panicked pivot away from Kang.

It is. Make no mistake, that is exactly what happened here. You don't build up the main villain of the next saga only to then pivot into a different one near the end of said saga. Them screwing up Kang along with Jonathan Majors' actions are what led this to happen, bringing in Doom was never in the cards originally.

It is nothing but a shameless desperate move from someone who's trying to regain the goodwill he once had when his franchise has been struggling quality and money wise these past few years. This was not due to some brilliant creative idea or story they want to explore, it's about playing it as safe as humanly possible and bringing back the beloved actor who helped kickstart the MCU. The fans did not matter to Feige in this decision, only the general audience's wallet, otherwise we finally would have gotten a faithful Doctor Doom adaptation in a Fantastic Four sequel down the line. This is more apparent when we have now learned that Matt Shakman, the man tackling the MCU Fantastic Four, had absolutely no input in the casting of Doom.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

This could work for me if RDJ is actually Victor Von Doom and keeps his mask on. Too bad MCU characters can't keep their helmets and masks on for two minutes, let alone an entire movie.

I honestly hope he looks nothing like Stark and they use some heavy prosthetics and maybe make his face scarred. That's how this will work for me. I doubt they will do that because of the storyline of him looking like Tony and all the Avengers fighting him.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Yeah they can call it whatever they want and it doesn't make it less weird. What's next, they're gonna have Chris Evans play the silver surfer?

Chris Evans when you suggest that:

 

[RiXi]

I just watched the Hall H panel. Joe and Anthony Russo specifically call him "Victor Von Doom," so RDJ is playing a version of Victor not a Tony Stark variant...assuming we are to take Joe and Anthony's words literally.

You're forgetting there was a whole season of Loki involving a variant of Kang who looked exactly the same but had a different name and a whole different life.
Majors played Kang the Conqueror. He also played Victor Timely, a very different character. But the second was still a variant of the first.

RDJ will play Victor Von Doom. And he'll be a variant of Tony Stark despite his name not being that and having a different life. Yeah, it's stupid. But let's see what they have in mind.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I think it's silly that people are assuming this is a panicked pivot away from Kang. Doom always played a massive role in Secret Wars, as a surprise villain to take over from the main villain (The Beyonder). I was always assuming Kang was going to be a red herring villain, with Doom stepping forward for Secret Wars.

So with the Kang change, I'm guessing they're simply removing the first step of hanging it all on Kang? But there's still a lot we don't know and I think one major missing piece of that puzzle will be the F4. Both Kang and Doom have obvious lore ties to Reed Richards and the F4, and with the 60's setting (in a different universe too) there's obviously a very specific plan in place here, which makes this approach seem more like rebranding rather than a desperate pivot.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this was something in the works anyway. For the years since Endgame, we've seen so much discourse about whether Iron Man would ever come back, whether RDJ ever came back, whether the Russo's would ever come back. The Russos stance was that they would MAYBE come back for a Secret Wars movie. And they have also been VERY against brining back Tony Stark. So for them to be suddenly championing RDJ as this different iconic role, I would be surprised if it was a total backflip rather than a creative idea that genuinely excites them?

I also think this idea of a Stark variant being a Doctor Doom variant that becomes the God Emperor of Secret Wars is more exciting when you think about the ripples that would send through the remaining characters. I think we can definitely assume that Secret Wars will "Reset" the MCU in a way (Most likely mash together most of the disparate Marvel universes e.g. F4, X-Men etc) into one united universe, tidy up the canon (and maybe even recast any characters that it could make sense for). So the idea of bringing back the man who began this universe and having him play a figure that tries to destroy it, is kind of the perfect synergistic theme to bring the Multiverse Saga to an end (thankfully.)

Anyway, I think seeing the sheer number of "WTF" reactions from people, I'm also willing to guess this was part of the plan. Shock everyone, get people talking and exciting about the MCU again. Bring people back to cinemas just to see what the hell is going on. And from there, I would be very surprised if there aren't more shocks planned.

The original title of Avengers 5 was Kang Dynasty. Now its called Avengers Doomsday. So yes, this is absolutely a panicked pivot.

Was it likely that Doom was going to play a role in these two Avengers movies? Absolutely. Was he always planned to be the main villain? He was obviously not, given how all in they were on Kang and Johnathan Majors. Doom likely would've had a different role, or he would've been teased as a future villain. But he is now being played by RDJ and being placed in this spot because Kang and Majors did not work out. That is obvious at this point.

 

[kguillou]

Theres no way Doom was going to be the original Secret Wars villain. Doom is absolutely a pivot away from Kang. What, they were originally going to have a Kang centric Avengers 5 movie and then bring Doom out of nowhere for Secret Wars with no build up? I dont buy that. MAYBE he would have been in the background somewhere and maybe introduced in these two movies but he would not have been the focus.

Kang as a character failed. Even without the Majors controversy, his charatcer wasnt gaining any traction at all with fans or the general audience. People were excited for Thanos in the years leading up to Infinity War but no one has cared a lick about Kang.
So they cut their losses instead of expending more time and energy on this failed effort.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Theres no way Doom was going to be the original Secret Wars villain. Doom is absolutely a pivot away from Kang. What, they were originally going to have a Kang centric Avengers 5 movie and then bring Doom out of nowhere for Secret Wars with no build up? I dont buy that. MAYBE he would have been in the background somewhere and maybe introduced in these two movies but he would not have been the focus.

Kang as a character failed. Even without the Majors controversy, his charatcer wasnt gaining any traction at all with fans or the general audience. People were excited for Thanos in the years leading up to Infinity War but no one has cared a lick about Kang.
So they cut their losses instead of expending more time and energy on this failed effort.

Being bested by Ant-Man of all characters probably didn't sell the intimidation factor that Marvel probably wanted when they built up to Quantumania. At least in Loki, He Who Remains was steps ahead of Loki and Sylvie.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I've said before that Kang should've killed Hank Pym in Quantamania, beat Ant-Man to the brink of death and escape the Quantum Realm.

 

[The Batman]

Nerds complaints about many things. I mean, they also complaint a lot about MJ and Ironboy, but MCU Spider-Man movies were extremely successful.

To be fair, Iron Man 3 made a billion dollars, but they still did a retcon on the Mandarin twist.

IMO, I definitely think aspects of NWH's story was a response to the Iron Boy criticisms.

 

[Zarex]

Swapping out Kang for Doom is absolutely a panicked pivot, but one that may end up being successful at the BO if not in the hearts and minds of Hype posters. Downey was the biggest name they could land for Doom and his stellar record in drawing fans to comic book movies may be necessary given the situation Marvel Studios is in. Feige and company have two extremely expensive Avengers sequels coming soon and, unlike with the first four flicks, no one has any idea who is on the team. That ain't great. RDJ gives them one proven star and if Thunderbolts and the FF reboot hit the Mouse should be able to justify the massive investment in those films.

 

[BoredGuy]

They definitely screwed up Kang in Quantumania, but I don't think it was a death blow

He was great as He Who Remains, he was one of the highlights of Ant-Man until they botched the ending, and he was compelling if odd as Victor Timely.
If it wasn't for Majors' dooshbaggery he would've gone on to greater heights

But I still think they should've recast Kang instead of this move

The statements about Marvel's financial struggles are a tad overblown, what with over a billion for No Way Home, $950m for Multiverse of Madness, 860m for BP2, 850m for Guardians 3, 760m for Love & Thunder... but the "quality" decline is hard to argue given fan and critical responses to much of the post-Endgame content.

So yeah this definitely feels like a pretty cynical, desperate move.

If it's a Stark variant, okay, I'll give it a chance and see how they execute it
if RDJ is the Victor Von Doom, then this is really stupid

 

[Arachnerd]

Kang as a character failed. Even without the Majors controversy, his charatcer wasnt gaining any traction at all with fans or the general audience. People were excited for Thanos in the years leading up to Infinity War but no one has cared a lick about Kang.
So they cut their losses instead of expending more time and energy on this failed effort.

The failure is on the writing, not the character itself. I still believe the Loki series was building something interesting with him and the multiversal war. Then Quantumania happened, and the MCU's failure in making him a compelling villain does not justify this jarring pivot to Doom, and not even a faithful adaptation of Doom at that.

 

[Ironfan72]

The failure is on the writing, not the character itself. I still believe the Loki series was building something interesting with him and the multiversal war. Then Quantumania happened, and the MCU's failure in making him a compelling villain does not justify this jarring pivot to Doom, and not even a faithful adaptation of Doom at that.

To be fair, Marvel didnt dump Majors who i enjoyed as Kang and think he is a talented actor, for his acting or the writing, he was dumped for his legal issues, and disney simply didnt want to deal with it, whether he was innocent or guilty, so they pressured Marvel to dump him and instead of recasting him, they pivoted to Doom, but again, i still dont fully understand RDJ being that choice, seems like a giant middle finger to all those MCU fans who loved him as Tony Stark.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think it's silly that people are assuming this is a panicked pivot away from Kang. Doom always played a massive role in Secret Wars, as a surprise villain to take over from the main villain (The Beyonder). I was always assuming Kang was going to be a red herring villain, with Doom stepping forward for Secret Wars.

So with the Kang change, I'm guessing they're simply removing the first step of hanging it all on Kang? But there's still a lot we don't know and I think one major missing piece of that puzzle will be the F4. Both Kang and Doom have obvious lore ties to Reed Richards and the F4, and with the 60's setting (in a different universe too) there's obviously a very specific plan in place here, which makes this approach seem more like rebranding rather than a desperate pivot.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this was something in the works anyway. For the years since Endgame, we've seen so much discourse about whether Iron Man would ever come back, whether RDJ ever came back, whether the Russo's would ever come back. The Russos stance was that they would MAYBE come back for a Secret Wars movie. And they have also been VERY against brining back Tony Stark. So for them to be suddenly championing RDJ as this different iconic role, I would be surprised if it was a total backflip rather than a creative idea that genuinely excites them?

I also think this idea of a Stark variant being a Doctor Doom variant that becomes the God Emperor of Secret Wars is more exciting when you think about the ripples that would send through the remaining characters. I think we can definitely assume that Secret Wars will "Reset" the MCU in a way (Most likely mash together most of the disparate Marvel universes e.g. F4, X-Men etc) into one united universe, tidy up the canon (and maybe even recast any characters that it could make sense for). So the idea of bringing back the man who began this universe and having him play a figure that tries to destroy it, is kind of the perfect synergistic theme to bring the Multiverse Saga to an end (thankfully.)

Anyway, I think seeing the sheer number of "WTF" reactions from people, I'm also willing to guess this was part of the plan. Shock everyone, get people talking and exciting about the MCU again. Bring people back to cinemas just to see what the hell is going on. And from there, I would be very surprised if there aren't more shocks planned.

I cannot agree that bad Stark variant Doom makes what's going on more exciting in an artistic sense. Sure, Marvel will get that cheddar, but artistically that concept reads as lazy and unimaginative

 

[Spider-Fan]

The failure is on the writing, not the character itself. I still believe the Loki series was building something interesting with him and the multiversal war. Then Quantumania happened, and the MCU's failure in making him a compelling villain does not justify this jarring pivot to Doom, and not even a faithful adaptation of Doom at that.

I think in both Loki seasons, He Who Remains was great. Problem is, that's a show less people watched then Quantumania. Which was a bad debut for a wider audience

 

[Boom]

If it's a Stark variant, okay, I'll give it a chance and see how they execute it
if RDJ is the Victor Von Doom, then this is really stupid

I'm of the opposite mind. If we have to be dealt this stupid idea, the only way it even remotely works is if RDJ plays a classic Victor von Doom that just so happens to look like Tony Stark from the Sacred Timeline. Same scenario as Chris Evans' Johnny Storm and Chris Evans' Steve Rogers. It's purely a coincidence of physical appearance. Otherwise, they are two entirely different characters.

If they pivot and make this an evil Tony Stark variant that goes by the "Doctor Doom" moniker, I will lose my ****. Use Superior Iron Man if that's what you want to do.