Sales For Spider-Man pre-OMD to current

[JewishHobbit]

which sucks to me completely, because i personally loved the respect he was beginning to get in the superhero community, loved how MJ became friends with Sue Storm, enjoyed peter growing up, and becoming a teacher at the school he went to. It was called progress.. and Joey Q blew that all up.

You know, I loved this as well! I always liked Spidey but when he joined the Avengers I was stoked. But then when I started seeing MJ hanging out with other wives/superwives I just really really like that. One of my favorate moments was in the Sentry: Reborn mini when Peter mentions to Sentry that MJ and Liddy wanted them to go to a movie. That was just phenominal in my eyes.

Peter's supposed to be the young swingin' hip highschool/college student I hear, but I think he was much much better as a young married couple kind of character. I actually felt like I could relate to him then and his stories were always better (I've not read anything BND, but I've read all his stuff from around 121 through OMD, and his pre-married days always bored me save a storyline here and there). A family dynamic and other married and single friends just worked in my opinion.

If Peter's the every man, then why can't he grow up and experience life like every man? Now he's just shoehorned in like every other teenager with powers. He should go hanger out with the Slingers because that's all the level of character he is now.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Are you insulting the Slingers?

 

[moraldeficiency]

So basically theres only maybe an issues worth of panels that aren't considered a Gimmick to you per book you read per year? Oi. I feel bad if thats how you read comics.

Wow, way to miss the premise of what I was saying. It has to be a combination of factors to work as a gimmick. Here I lay it out simply: If at the end of the story everything is reset, no one's learned anything, and it could easily have just not happened, but it's billed as "EVERYTHING WILL BE CHANGED FOR EVAH, FOR REALS THIS TIME, SERIOUSLY BUY THREE ISSUES OF THIS RIGHT NOW....DON'T MAKE US PUT OBAMA ON THE COVER AGAIN!!!" then yeah, it's a gimmick. Sorry I went over your head there.

 

[SouLeSS]

So nothing happened in New Ways To Die that is going to ever be carried over to another arc or book? Same with anything you've ever said as "gimmicky"?

Fact is, there ARE gimmicks in comics, and it's just something we have to deal with. Ending every issue of an arc on a cliffhanger could be considered a "gimmick" to get the reader to get the next issue.

But it seems like you're saying unless it's a status quo change then it's a gimmick. New ways to die had the invention of Anti-Venom, a lot of changes in the Peter Parker life, amongst other things that carried on through ASM through the next following months. How is that a "gimmick" at all?

And, on top of all that, BND/OMD/3-times-monthly is seeming more "gimmicky" because it's coming out 3 times a month and you're seeing ending splash pages that tease, or big stories breaking 3 times a month. If it wasn't a 3-times-monthly book, NWTD would have taken over for half a year of spidey books. Put it in that timeslot and it's not "gimmicky" at all. In fact, just about every arc for every comic since Trade's started being popular and arcs being formated into "trade" schedules is something happening that could be considered "gimmicky" to you.

It's a matter of perspective. To date, ASM has gone through forty-eight issues since January of 08 when BND started. That's roughly FOUR years of stories. From those FOUR YEARS worth of stories you have what, 4 or 5 arcs that you're angry about because they're labeled as gimmicky status quo changes that don't really change anything when in reality they changed a lot in the Spiderman cannon but since nothing BIG happened like the death of Spidey then they're gimmicks?

That doesn't make sense. And not because I typed it not to make sense, but because having ~4 arcs in a 4 year comic period being "status quo" updates is what happens in just about every book. The only reason you're seeing it so much in the Spiderman title is because it's a 3 times monthly title of Marvels (arguable) top A-List character.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Are you insulting the Slingers?

Nope. I love the Slingers, but Spidey shouldn't be at their level, they should be looking up to his. Unfortunately, he seems like he'd fit right in these days. And maybe they can all go out and have dates, and their mom's can drive them.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I miss the Slingers. And I still hate Millar for killing off Eddie.

 

[JewishHobbit]

In such a lame and off panel way too. Grrr!

At least we have consistant Prodigy and semi-consistant Ricochet.


Now if only Dusk would show back up.

 

[moraldeficiency]

NWTD had anti venom, which I said was new but otherwise what changed? After the first issue, Norman osborn is a villian, menance never loses, peter parker is a lovable loser and the conclusion is osborns a dick...sorry for something billed as big the first issue had all the development. It was a fun story, but I didn't see it showcasing BND or furthering much other than spider-man fighting people (although in his credit he actually got to win a few which is a refreshing change).

See, again you're not following me. I don't consider a cliffhanger to be a gimmick. For something to qualify first it has to be billed as something major, something that "fundamentally changes everything" then it has to basically be reset so it doesn't matter. See what I'm saying? I sort of doubt it cause you're talking about something completely different and irrevelant to the point.

I wasn't saying every comic is a gimmick but look at the death of superman. That was a gimmick, end of the day supes was back just the same, but they sold a crap load of issues on a false premise. If you billed NWTD or DOS as just a good story and not what it was billed as it wouldn't fit as a gimmick. Now please disregard what I'm saying and explain to me how I think everything evah is a gimmick. I like hearing other people explain what I think to me, it saves me the brain cells which I instead kill with whiskey.

 

[RAMORE]

Something else I've thought for a long time too is that Civil War was concocted solely to get rid of MJ. Some think this conspiracy but consider this:

Joey Q stands in front of the spiderman summit writers and says: "I want Pete Single. I don't care what it takes I want it done." One writer say so just kill her another loss for peter to add to his responsability motto. Joe Q says no that makes him a widow. And I don't want a divorce either one of them will end up looking bad.

So another writer say what if he magically has the marriage undone? Ok joey says that could work but how what's the motivation? Another writer jumps in to save Aunt May because she's been shot or killed. Ok but how did that happen is it random? No what if someone was hunting him and got her instead. Ok but how do they know he's spiderman? We'll just have him reveal it that way it's not like he got beat and unmasked he did it himself so he will feel all of the guilt. But why would he do that? Then Bendis says What if the government made him? Joey Q how? Bendis well i've had this idea about a catastrophe that causes the govt.... And I wouldn't be suprised if that's how it went down.

 

[RAMORE]

Come to think of it my biggest problem is pete selfishly made a deal with the devil. I mean no matter what I would have been pissed like jewishhobbit he's always been married to me but let's say a sniper shoots and kills aunt may and pete can't deal so he goes about trying to get her back and steals her from Mephisto and as punishment Mephisto makes the marriage never happened. I would be pissed but that would have been better.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I doubt it. Spider-Man could've revealed his identity for any reason. Civil War just provided a conveniently timed event to tie it into.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

No offense to you Slott, because honestly your the best of the Spidey team and Marvel in general, but you guys could at least tell a story where something shocking doesn't have to happen every story arc.

''OH LOOKY LILY IS MENANCE"

''BROCK'S BACK! HE'S ANTI-VENOM!"

''AUNT MAY'S GETTING MARRIED! TO JAMESON'S FATHER!"

''FLASH HAS NO LEGS!"

''MARY JANE'S BACK!"

What happened to just having Spidey fight a villain and then going home to his normal life? It's like you guys feel you need the big reveals in every story arc you do and that's just not so.

EDIT: Not to mention that they all very much were solicited in a ''LOOK WE ARE DOING THIS TO MAKE YOU BUY THIS BOOK" sorta way. Which is the point of any solicit yes, but the Spidey ones just smack you over the head with it.

I don't really know what stories youre reading, because to me most of the stories in ASM seem to be about Spidey having a regular adventure. The entire run before New Ways to Die (the first "big" story you mention) was like this. The last couple of issues after Character Assassination have been like this. A story with Spot, a team-up with the Fantastic Four in the microverse, Spidey going around as Spidey 24/7.

Honestly, all I see if you just *****ing in an attempt to justify why you don't like Spider-Man right now. You know, you can just say its because of the MJ retcon. You don't have to go out of your way to prove everything about Spider-Man is wrong now.

And honestly, your list of events is pretty weak. Hey, let's take a look as the JMS days.

"ANOTHER CHARACTER WHO HAS SPIDEY'S POWERS!"
"AUNT MAY FINDS OUT PETER IS SPIDEY!"
"SEPTEMEBER 11!"
"MARY JANE'S BACK!" (I guess it was a gimmick when JMS did it too )
"ORIGINAL NUMBERING!"
"EZEKIEL'S A BAD GUY!"
"GWEN HAD SEX WITH GOBLIN!"
"ORGANIC WEBS!"
"MORLUN'S BACK!"
"NEW COSTUME!"
"SPIDEY UNMASKED!"
"BLACK COSTUME!"

so, yeah, you should really just stop reading comics:

 

[JewishHobbit]

Come to think of it my biggest problem is pete selfishly made a deal with the devil. I mean no matter what I would have been pissed like jewishhobbit he's always been married to me but let's say a sniper shoots and kills aunt may and pete can't deal so he goes about trying to get her back and steals her from Mephisto and as punishment Mephisto makes the marriage never happened. I would be pissed but that would have been better.

That still would have ticked me off because it's still erasing their married life and the years of comics I've read... but without the selfishness of Peter I could probably forgive easier.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I don't really know what stories youre reading, because to me most of the stories in ASM seem to be about Spidey having a regular adventure. The entire run before New Ways to Die (the first "big" story you mention) was like this. The last couple of issues after Character Assassination have been like this. A story with Spot, a team-up with the Fantastic Four in the microverse, Spidey going around as Spidey 24/7.

Honestly, all I see if you just *****ing in an attempt to justify why you don't like Spider-Man right now. You know, you can just say its because of the MJ retcon. You don't have to go out of your way to prove everything about Spider-Man is wrong now.

And honestly, your list of events is pretty weak. Hey, let's take a look as the JMS days.

"ANOTHER CHARACTER WHO HAS SPIDEY'S POWERS!"
"AUNT MAY FINDS OUT PETER IS SPIDEY!"
"SEPTEMEBER 11!"
"MARY JANE'S BACK!" (I guess it was a gimmick when JMS did it too )
"ORIGINAL NUMBERING!"
"EZEKIEL'S A BAD GUY!"
"GWEN HAD SEX WITH GOBLIN!"
"ORGANIC WEBS!"
"MORLUN'S BACK!"
"NEW COSTUME!"
"SPIDEY UNMASKED!"
"BLACK COSTUME!"

so, yeah, you should really just stop reading comics:

Aww, how lame and unoriginal of a thing for you to say.

 

[JewishHobbit]

And organic webs wasn't Straczynski... it was... I believe Jenkins... who wrote that over in one of the other books... the Disassembled "tie-in"

 

[Themanofbat]

Ok... because somebody asked for it...

ASM #471 - 77 300 copies
ASM #472 - 73 700 copies
ASM #473 - 82 300 copies
ASM #474 - 89 800 copies
ASM #475 - 90 500 copies
ASM #476 - 90 000 copies
ASM #477 - 92 800 copies *event* - 911 issue
ASM #478 - 93 500 copies
ASM #479 - 95 300 copies *event* - Aunt May conversation issue
ASM #480 - 97 400 copies *event* - 'Nuff Said issue (company wide event)
ASM #481 - 106 700 copies
ASM #482 - 105 100 copies
ASM #483 - 103 500 copies
ASM #484 - 106 000 copies
ASM #485 - 106 800 copies
ASM #486 - 105 400 copies
ASM #487 - 104 800 copies
ASM #488 - 102 600 copies
ASM #489 - 100 700 copies
ASM #490 - 97 000 copies
ASM #491 - 114 400 copies *event* - (ASM vol.2 #50) return of MJ issue
ASM #492 - 95 300 copies
ASM #493 - 96 900 copies
ASM #494 - 95 100 copies
ASM #495 - 94 800 copies
ASM #496 - 95 100 copies
ASM #497 - 93 500 copies
ASM #498 - 94 700 copies
ASM #499 - 92 800 copies
ASM #500 - 148 900 copies *event* - ASM #500 issue (d'uh)
ASM #501 - 94 400 copies
ASM #502 - 90 500 copies
ASM #503 - 87 400 copies
ASM #504 - 84 000 copies
ASM #505 - 83 600 copies
ASM #506 - 83 200 copies
ASM #507 - 81 900 copies
ASM #508 - 82 300 copies
ASM #509 - 88 300 copies *event* - Sins Past
ASM #510 - 84 800 copies *event* - Sins Past
ASM #511 - 88 100 copies *event* - Sins Past
ASM #512 - 87 200 copies *event* - Sins Past
ASM #513 - 89 500 copies *event* - Sins Past
ASM #514 - 87 100 copies *event* - Sins Past
ASM #515 - 82 800 copies
ASM #516 - 79 700 copies
ASM #517 - 78 600 copies
ASM #518 - 76 900 copies
ASM #519 - 78 500 copies
ASM #520 - 76 100 copies
ASM #521 - 74 100 copies
ASM #522 - 73 100 copies
ASM #523 - 72 000 copies
ASM #524 - 71 100 copies
ASM #525 - written by Peter David
ASM #526 - written by Reginald Hudlin
ASM #527 - 79 300 copies *event* - The Other
ASM #528 - 95 400 copies *event* - The Other
ASM #529 - 90 400 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey
ASM #530 - 89 900 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey
ASM #531 - 86 900 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey
ASM #532 - 95 500 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking
ASM #533 - 113 000 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking
ASM #534 - 113 500 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking
ASM #535 - 117 000 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking
ASM #536 - 118 800 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking
ASM #537 - 114 800 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking
ASM #538 - 142 930 copies *event* - Civil War/Iron Spidey/Unmasking/Aunt May shot
ASM #539 - 137 723 copies *event* - Civil War/Unmasking/Back in Black
ASM #540 - 119 624 copies *event* - Civil War/Unmasking/Back in Black
ASM #541 - 108 217 copies *event* - Civil War/Unmasking/Back in Black
ASM #542 - 105 678 copies *event* - Civil War/Unmasking/Back in Black
ASM #543 - 106 478 copies *event* - Civil War/Unmasking/Back in Black
ASM #544 - 146 170 copies *event* - OMD
ASM #545 - 124 406 copies *event* - OMD

During his tenure, he wrote 73 issues of ASM.

Total # of books sold = 7 023 626 copies

That's an average of 96 214 copies sold under his tenure.

Now let's break this up a bit...

Total # of books sold (non-event issues (43 issues)) = 3 844 100 copies
Total # of books sold (event issues (30 issues)) = 3 179 526 copies

Average non-event book = 89 398 copies
Average event book = 105 984 copies

Interpret these numnbers as you wish...

Source: http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=695

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Damn, those are actually pretty high. Higher than I would've expected. I thought Spider-Man was selling worse under JMS.

 

[iloveclones]

I'm glad you posted that TMOB (and not just because I'm lazy.....which I am). Because it seems to keep being represented that as soon as JMS left the title, sales dropped from 120K to 60K.

If you look at JMS' run after Sins Past and before event-fest, you can clearly see that he was approaching that same level of sales. In fact, if you plot that time period, and run a linear regression, you get a fairly straight line downward, with and R^2 of .946 (1.00 would be a straight line where every single data point hits the graph, an indicator of predictability) If you assume (which you really can't) that sales would have continued this kind of drop if there were no events for this time period, by the time they hit OMD, Amazing would have been selling around 46000 copies a month. (If someone knows how to post an Excel chart, I'd be happy to share.)

Now, admittedly, that's really just tricks with math, because it could have plateau'd at any point before that. (And definately would have If you follow that regression, by issue number 583, they would have been selling a negative number of issues. Even Amazing would have to be cancelled by that point!) I just point it out to say that all was not happy in JMS-land, and that he definately benefitted from all those events.

IMO, the only story that I consider to be an event post-OMD is New Ways to Die. And frankly, I don't think that approaches the event-ness of The Other, Iron-Spidey, the Unmasking and Aunt May being shot. I would call it a draw between NWTD and BiB, since it seemed much less an "event" as the others mentioned(and, in fact, the sales reflect that: it never bumped sales upward).


EDIT: Since i went back and posted that graph, I think it's fair to point out that you can really do that with any snapshot period, JMS' period when sales were rising or Slott's, et al, run now. Again, the only reason I present it is because these conversations always seem to take the tone of "OMG, sales have gone from 120K to 50K....because of these changes." And I think that is really the most superficial way of looking at things.

 

[JewishHobbit]

ASM #479 - 95 300 copies *event* - Aunt May conversation issue
ASM #480 - 97 400 copies *event* - 'Nuff Said issue (company wide event)
ASM #491 - 114 400 copies *event* - (ASM vol.2 #50) return of MJ issue

Why in the world are you considering these events? They're just basic stories. I know that the first and last were important, but not events. And the 'Nuff Said issue.... psh. I can maybe see it but that whole deal was a crappy idea (and one that mostly failed) ... certainly not an event.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thor's 'Nuff Said issue rocked.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Aww, how lame and unoriginal of a thing for you to say.

It was lame and unoriginal. I had to copy your stupid post to make my point.:

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Why in the world are you considering these events? They're just basic stories. I know that the first and last were important, but not events. And the 'Nuff Said issue.... psh. I can maybe see it but that whole deal was a crappy idea (and one that mostly failed) ... certainly not an event.

I don't see how the return of MJ now is an event but it wasn't back in ASM #50.

And I liked ASM's nuff said issue

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

I liked PPSM's too. It had clowns

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Thor's 'Nuff Said issue rocked.

I read that one. Mourning about Odin dying and whatnot. Yeah, I don't Nuff Said was all too bad, but then those and Daredevil's were the only ones I remember at this point.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked the contrast between Thor's loving recollection of Odin and Loki's angsty memory of Odin's failings.

What was Daredevil's? I never read it.