Comics Scientific proof on what killed Gwen Stacy...

[freemadison]

I agree with Dragon, the webbing isn't rigid enough to create the sudden stop that would have snapped Gwen's neck. If it were possible for spidey's webs to do that consider how many times he would have dislocated his soldiers trying to save himself from a close fall.

Uhhhh yes it is. I mean sure the webbing has some give but at the speed that Gwen is falling and the angle her neck is positioned (especially when she's unconscious and not supporting her own neck) makes her neck as brittle as well...brittle (mmmm brittle ).

I dislocated my soldiers once. A lot of people were mad at me for that one....

 

[Dragon]

Uhhhh yes it is. I mean sure the webbing has some give but at the speed that Gwen is falling and the angle her neck is positioned (especially when she's unconscious and not supporting her own neck) makes her neck as brittle as well...brittle (mmmm brittle ).

Okay. couple points-

1. Gwen isn't falling at high speed. When an object, any object is dropped it falls at the same rate unless there's some type of outside force increasing the velocity. 32 ft. per second is the standard.

2. Spidey's webbing has the necessary give. Again- think about it. If the webbing didn't have elasticity to it, it couldn't even snare her leg. It would have to stretch simply to solidify enough to wrap around her leg. If it were rigid, the line would break before it could fortify. And even after it fortifies, it's still rubbery in nature. And as Spideylover89 mentioned, Spidey would've torn his shoulders apart in his career of webswinging if not for the webbing's fluidity.

3. As for her angle that really has nothing to do with it. And- her being uncounscious, if anything would have helped- in such a situation the body needs to be limp. Were she awake, she'd have been tensed because of her fear. Which would have made her more prone to injury.

 

[freemadison]

Okay. couple points-

1. Gwen isn't falling at high speed. When an object, any object is dropped it falls at the same rate unless there's some type of outside force increasing the velocity. 32 ft. per second is the standard.

2. Spidey's webbing has the necessary give. Again- think about it. If the webbing didn't have elasticity to it, it couldn't even snare her leg. It would have to stretch simply to solidify enough to wrap around her leg. If it were rigid, the line would break before it could fortify. And even after it fortifies, it's still rubbery in nature. And as Spideylover89 mentioned, Spidey would've torn his shoulders apart in his career of webswinging if not for the webbing's fluidity.

3. As for her angle that really has nothing to do with it. And- her being uncounscious, if anything would have helped- in such a situation the body needs to be limp. Were she awake, she'd have been tensed because of her fear. Which would have made her more prone to injury.

1.

See that black dot? That's Gwen.

Since she's in a free fall, that 32 ft. per second is only gonna increase the longer she falls. 1 second passes/32ftps, 2 seconds pass/64ftps, etc.
That means she's speeding up quick. Which is why me dropping a glass cup from my desk might not break it, but me dropping the same cup off of a roof is not gonna be good for the cup.

2. About the shoulders thing, Spidey is a super-powered individual which makes his body less susceptible to injuries (which is why people were going crazy about the Jigsaw arm break thing in NA) and from my recollection he's hurt his shoulders a few times from botched swings. Yes, I understand that it's MUCH more elastic than say rope but the neck is very fragile which is why things like whiplash are so common in car accidents. His webbing is just elastic enough for him (who is in the 10 ton class) to break free from but that doesn't mean a human could stand a chance.

3. However, you are right about the tensing up thing. That probably did prevent "more harm" if that's possible.

 

[Majik1387]

I've heard many theories and looking at the panel of her death, Goblin killed her, not Spidey.

 

[Dragon]

1.

See that black dot? That's Gwen.

Since she's in a free fall, that 32 ft. per second is only gonna increase the longer she falls. 1 second passes/32ftps, 2 seconds pass/64ftps, etc.
That means she's speeding up quick. Which is why me dropping a glass cup from my desk might not break it, but me dropping the same cup off of a roof is not gonna be good for the cup.

The number doesn't increase. The chart you displayed shows that the speed of the fall remains consistant. 1 sec = 10m (32 ft) / 5 sec = 50m (160 ft)

And we're not talking about what would happen if Gwen made impact. If she did, even hitting water, she'd have been crushed. We're talking about an object either stopping her fall abruptly or slowing her fall as with the professor's example of an air bag. Spidey's webbing is FAR MORE akin to an airbag than a windshield. If anything, the webbing is softer than an air bag.
Why do you think when he falls a great distance he can use if for a net? If the webbing were rigid, he might as well let himself hit pavement.

2. About the shoulders thing, Spidey is a super-powered individual which makes his body less susceptible to injuries (which is why people were going crazy about the Jigsaw arm break thing in NA) and from my recollection he's hurt his shoulders a few times from botched swings. Yes, I understand that it's MUCH more elastic than say rope but the neck is very fragile which is why things like whiplash are so common in car accidents. His webbing is just elastic enough for him (who is in the 10 ton class) to break free from but that doesn't mean a human could stand a chance.

But Spidey is susceptible or can die from impact from great falls, and we've seen his arms broken more than once. So were he diving from buildings and suddenly stopping because of the length of his webline being reached and the webline were rigid enough to generate a whiplash, he'd most certainly be injured. Especially doing this repeatedly.

3. However, you are right about the tensing up thing. That probably did prevent "more harm" if that's possible.

Well, like I said- given the scenario- which object do you think would have done Gwen more harm- The goblin's metallic glider with sharp edges traveling at high speed (Note that it had enough power to impale and hold the Goblin aloft for several seconds) or a webline?

 

[freemadison]

The number doesn't increase. The chart you displayed shows that the speed of the fall remains consistant. 1 sec = 10m (32 ft) / 5 sec = 50m (160 ft)

It's not simply "m". It's m/s (per second) which is why the interval of distance traveled by the ball (Gwen) is farther and farther after each second.

And we're not talking about what would happen if Gwen made impact. If she did, even hitting water, she'd have been crushed. We're talking about an object either stopping her fall abruptly or slowing her fall as with the professor's example of an air bag. Spidey's webbing is FAR MORE akin to an airbag than a windshield. If anything, the webbing is softer than an air bag.
Why do you think when he falls a great distance he can use if for a net? If the webbing were rigid, he might as well let himself hit pavement.

Wellllll, since I think his webbing is a gel-like substance he can tamper with how he distributes it in order to make his nets and such. But I think when he shoots a straight, strong webline it's certainly rigid ENOUGH to cause whiplash. We've seen Spidey get whiplash in his arms when he's falling off a building holding onto a webline at a high velocity.

But Spidey is susceptible or can die from impact from great falls, and we've seen his arms broken more than once. So were he diving from buildings and suddenly stopping because of the length of his webline being reached and the webline were rigid enough to generate a whiplash, he'd most certainly be injured. Especially doing this repeatedly.

I assume that the web has rigidness of a very light bungee cord (or else it wouldn't be strong enough to hold any weight). If we assume that much, then I certainly thinks it a reasonable assumption to think it has enough whiplash to break a fragile woman's neck who is increasingly falling faster and faster off a bridge.

Well, like I said- given the scenario- which object do you think would have done Gwen more harm- The goblin's metallic glider with sharp edges traveling at high speed (Note that it had enough power to impale and hold the Goblin aloft for several seconds) or a webline?

I never said I thought Peter killed her. I think the glider killed her and she was dead in the air. But I also think Spidey broke her neck. t:

 

[Dragon]

It's not simply "m". It's m/s (per second) which is why the interval of distance traveled by the ball (Gwen) is farther and farther after each second.

Of course she's going to continue to drop further each second. But she's not accelerating. Her speed remains constant. However For example, if Spidey, using his superhumanly strong legs propelled himself toward her, he'd accelerate for a period, so he might have been able to catch her.

Wellllll, since I think his webbing is a gel-like substance he can tamper with how he distributes it in order to make his nets and such. But I think when he shoots a straight, strong webline it's certainly rigid ENOUGH to cause whiplash. We've seen Spidey get whiplash in his arms when he's falling off a building holding onto a webline at a high velocity.

There's no reason a webline would be anymore rigid. Spidey can certainly control the thickness and consistency of his webbing. If's trying to web up the Rhino or Ock's tentacles, he'd certainly make a thicker spray to hold them harder and faster. But this isn't the case of Gwen falling. Peter's a scientist, and experienced hero, so he'd of course be aware of the whiplash effect.

Honestly, I don't recall Spidey whiplashing his shoulder because of a suddne snag of his webline line. I've seen him misjudge his swing because of a sudden change in direction and be hurt.

I assume that the web has rigidness of a very light bungee cord (or else it wouldn't be strong enough to hold any weight). If we assume that much, then I certainly thinks it a reasonable assumption to think it has enough whiplash to break a fragile woman's neck who is increasingly falling faster and faster off a bridge.

But if it has the rigidity of a bungee cord (or lack of)which is what I'm saying; then that's exactly why it wouldn't have killed Gwen. Bungee cord stretches with the person's weight, and thus would have only slowed Gwen's fall, not stop it abruptly.

I never said I thought Peter killed her. I think the glider killed her and she was dead in the air. But I also think Spidey broke her neck. t:

The truth of the matter is that Conway simply didn't think the sequence through, and wanted to have Spidey partially implicated in the physical act of Gwen's death. Thus the snap. He certainly created a powerful, dramatic scene, but not realisitic scientifically.

 

[freemadison]

Let's agree that Gerry Conway kills Gwen Stacy. t:

 

[Dragon]

Let's agree that Gerry Conway kills Gwen Stacy. t:

That he did.. Bastard.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Let's agree that Gerry Conway kills Gwen Stacy. t:

Love that.

 

[Olasnah]

It's scientific proof that this professor is as gay as a tangerine.

 

[Kahoot]

1.

See that black dot? That's Gwen.

Since she's in a free fall, that 32 ft. per second is only gonna increase the longer she falls. 1 second passes/32ftps, 2 seconds pass/64ftps, etc.
That means she's speeding up quick. Which is why me dropping a glass cup from my desk might not break it, but me dropping the same cup off of a roof is not gonna be good for the cup.

If you drop the same cup it's already been weakened so really to be scientific you'd wanna drop an identical cup.

 

[zanos]

Stan made it specifically clear that the fall was what did it. I thought this was a mistake though. Stan should have implied the possibility that he killed Gwen long before Spider-man confronted him at the bridge. The result is the same and you can still play out everything else the same. It just makes the whole scene much more sinister.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Of course she's going to continue to drop further each second. But she's not accelerating. Her speed remains constant. However For example, if Spidey, using his superhumanly strong legs propelled himself toward her, he'd accelerate for a period, so he might have been able to catch her..

Unless someone repealed the law of gravity, I believe you're mistaken....Gwen did speed up, her speed did not remain constant....the speed of gravity is appx 10 m per second squared....meaning an object in free fall will accelerate 10 meters per second every second it's falling.....if it took 5 seconds to snag Gwen she was travelling at 50 meters per second....had he snagged her 3 seconds sooner her speed would have been 20 meters per second...

...admittedly I haven't looked at a physics book in years but I believe I'm right.....it's all moot anyway....the Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy...it's not even up for debate

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Dragon, you're wrong about physics. The gravity constant, g is approximately 9.8 meters per second per second. Yes, you read that right, I typed "per second" twice. g is gravity's acceleration, and it means that every second, the velocity of a falling object increases by 9.8 meters per second.

 

[Dragon]

Unless someone repealed the law of gravity, I believe you're mistaken....Gwen did speed up, her speed did not remain constant....the speed of gravity is appx 10 m per second squared....meaning an object in free fall will accelerate 10 meters per second every second it's falling.....if it took 5 seconds to snag Gwen she was travelling at 50 meters per second....had he snagged her 3 seconds sooner her speed would have been 20 meters per second...

...admittedly I haven't looked at a physics book in years but I believe I'm right.....it's all moot anyway....the Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy...it's not even up for debate

You're right about the physics. But that's not really my point. The point is that Spidey's webbing is a chemical equivalent to a bungee cord. Based on how it works- creating nets- creating a swing line, even the way the scene in ASM #121 depicts it, it wouldn't have stopped Gwen's fall abruptly like a solid rope. It would have stretched with her weight.

But the Goblin glider would have easily killed her. In fact it probaly would have decaptitated her.

In the end, as you say, Goblin glider or webbing, the Goblin killed Gwen. Or ideally Conway-Thomas-Romita killed her (I think Gil Kane was the innocent bystander in that scenario)

 

[Dragon]

Dragon, you're wrong about physics. The gravity constant, g is approximately 9.8 meters per second per second. Yes, you read that right, I typed "per second" twice. g is gravity's acceleration, and it means that every second, the velocity of a falling object increases by 9.8 meters per second.

What's funny to me is that with all of you scholars commenting on the physics you're still not getting my point. The glider is a far more likely instrument in killing Gwen in the scenario than the webline.

Try working out the phyics there and get back to me.

 

[Norman Osborn]

You're right about the physics. But that's not really my point. The point is that Spidey's webbing is a chemical equivalent to a bungee cord. Based on how it works- creating nets- creating a swing line, even the way the scene in ASM #121 depicts it, it wouldn't have stopped Gwen's fall abruptly like a solid rope. It would have stretched with her weight.

But the Goblin glider would have easily killed her. In fact it probaly would have decaptitated her.

In the end, as you say, Goblin glider or webbing, the Goblin killed Gwen. Or ideally Conway-Thomas-Romita killed her (I think Gil Kane was the innocent bystander in that scenario)

Exactly...

...personally I'm not sure why it's still being argued??...I agree with what you say about the webbing and the glider...but even if you play Devil's advocate and assume the webbing's a freaking rope and the glider's made of tin foil....one has to ask one question....Would she have died had the webbing not caught her?...and the answer is of course she would have.....Spidey's guilty of not being able to save her....not of killing her....using that logic if someone stabbed me 38 times in the chest, and in a last ditch effort a Doctor tries a hail mary procedure and loses me on the table, then in fact it's the Doctor that killed me??...

As you and many have stated ad nauseum on this thread.... Goblin killed Gwen Stacy no matter what the coroner's report says!!t:

 

[drmick]

I unfortunately bought the Physics of Superheroes expecting something as interesting a read as the Physics of Star Trek.

Alas! The book is mind-numbingly dull. Little more that basic high school mechanics being attempted to be explained to your granny.

(Although I did learn some stuff about Flash and Superman's superspeed which effectively has ruined most episodes of Smallville for me).

 

[ClarkLuther55]

What's funny to me is that with all of you scholars commenting on the physics you're still not getting my point. The glider is a far more likely instrument in killing Gwen in the scenario than the webline.

Try working out the phyics there and get back to me.

Where the hell did I even comment on what killed Gwen?

All I did was point out that you're wrong about how gravity doesn't accelerate you.

 

[Dragon]

Where the hell did I even comment on what killed Gwen?

All I did was point out that you're wrong about how gravity doesn't accelerate you.

Yeah, but, you do undertand that based on the point I was making, the velocity of the fall really isn't a factor. When thrill-seekers jump from bridges strapped to bungee cords- they too are accelerating and don't die. So I've already admitted that I was wrong about the physics, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Parker]

I agree with Dragon, the webbing isn't rigid enough to create the sudden stop that would have snapped Gwen's neck. If it were possible for spidey's webs to do that consider how many times he would have dislocated his soldiers trying to save himself from a close fall.

True, but you have to remember he was bitten by a radioactive spider, thus giving him super-strength and resilience. His shoulders wouldn't dislocate and/or break nearly as easily as Gwen Stacy's neck.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Yeah, but, you do undertand that based on the point I was making, the velocity of the fall really isn't a factor. When thrill-seekers jump from bridges strapped to bungee cords- they too are accelerating and don't die. So I've already admitted that I was wrong about the physics, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I'm haven't even been a PART of this debate over how Gwen died, so just admit that you were wrong for answering so rudely and acting like I didn't get your point.

 

[James"007"Bond]

There's no science behind Gwen's death, the yellow brick road or lightsabers. It's a story. It's fiction. What the author/artist creates is what happened.

Exactly and thats wht people fail to understand. Why would proffessors wste their time on trying to justify or in most cases refute the physics of comicdom? We all know its fiction. Havn't these nerds got anything better to do?

The writers would be scrating their heads at all this BS. The primary objective was jo just have Gwen killed, its that simple. Outlandish illustartions used were simply there to see what was going on and to capture the intensity of the event, so what is actually observed may not have been there for any other intended purposes other than to just show whats happening. GG killed Gwen, people can debate it all day till Christ returns but it is what it is. Gwen is dead, GG kiled her, end of story.

 

[JackBauer]

I think the bigger issue than what scientifically killed Gwen would be: does it really matter?