Strange New Worlds Season 2, Episode 3 "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" (Spoiler Thread)

[Snow Queen]

La'An travels back in time to twenty first century Earth to prevent an attack which will alter humanity's future history.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Time travel with La'an!

Hoping their Kirk begins to grow on me here.

 

[DKDetective]

Time travel with La'an!

Hoping their Kirk begins to grow on me here.

Sadly, the reviews say otherwise. Thankfully, based on the preview clip, this is once again an alternate timeline, so hopefully they can course-correct since he is clearly not working in the role.

Also, warning @flickchick85, this will be a third episode in a row that is light on Pike. Anson's child was born just as the season was about to start shooting so they wrote him out of the early season as much as possible as a result.

 

[DKDetective]

La'an and Kirk in Toronto. Cold Fusion reactor and Khan in the Eaton Centre. I love that they directly poked fun at Toronto being used as a stand-in for New York City in film and TV and then just let Toronto be Toronto.

I was also pleasantly surprised they had such a light touch with Khan. I was really worried given Kurtzman's obsession with Khan and past poor use of the character. It was a really effective use of him and the whole "would you kill Hitler as a baby" problem.

It was neat how they used the Temporal Cold War and such as an explanation for the difference between Khan appearing in the 1990s in TOS and that having to be retconned to the 21st century in more recent Trek.

Last, gotta love that they totally baited the rightwing nutjobs by officially referring to the Federation as a "socialist utopia" in canon. Woke Trek is Best Trek.

 

[Gaultheria]

Khan is Canadian.

I always figured Khan's proper name was Noonien Singh, and that "Khan" was a revolutionary leadership name he took on later in life, like "Lenin" or something.

Is the Institute the same building that served as Liberation headquarters in Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict? It probably had a reactor in that continuity as well.

Kirk's comment about how easy 2-D chess is compared to the 3-D version seems to be a callback to the final battle in Wrath of Khan.

The agent's toque was a subtle clue to the audience, even though she didn't need it.

 

[Gaultheria]

It would be ironic if the gun that La'an absentmindedly left behind in Khan's room, when she decided not to kill the future tyrant, is what shifted his interest away from science and architecture and started him thinking about the use of force.

 

[Sithborg]

That was a fun episode with a touch of "Would you kill baby Hitler" question to it.

I laughed hard at Kirk mistaking Toronto for NYC. And the subsequent poking at Canada archtypes.

I know I will be in the minority, but I like Wesley's Kirk. It probably helps I don't have much exposure to TOS beyond the movies. I did like that they made him good at chess. And I also liked how he wasn't good initially at driving, a criticism I saw about S2 of Picard a lot.

"I will make every effort to practice less vigorously going forward". I love Peck's Spock.

God bless Carol Kane. Pelia in the past was a pleasant surprise. I wonder if Lanthanites and El-Aurians know each other.

I clapped when Department of Temporal Investigations showed up. Especially in a time travel episode than involved a Kirk. "The man's a menace". I liked the newer version of the Temporal Investigations clothing.

It is interesting that they acknowledged the various movement of the Eugenics War in the timeline. People are praising it as confirmation that nu-Trek is alternate universe. **** that, its just an in universe explanation of them wanting to keep doing "present time" episodes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Really liked this one. La'an was great, Adelaide Kane showed up, and I actually liked the use of Khan here. Also really loved everyone's reaction on the bridge to La'an being out of uniform.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That was a fun episode with a touch of "Would you kill baby Hitler" question to it.

I laughed hard at Kirk mistaking Toronto for NYC. And the subsequent poking at Canada archtypes.

I know I will be in the minority, but I like Wesley's Kirk. It probably helps I don't have much exposure to TOS beyond the movies. I did like that they made him good at chess. And I also liked how he wasn't good initially at driving, a criticism I saw about S2 of Picard a lot.

"I will make every effort to practice less vigorously going forward". I love Peck's Spock.

God bless Carol Kane. Pelia in the past was a pleasant surprise. I wonder if Lanthanites and El-Aurians know each other.

I clapped when Department of Temporal Investigations showed up. Especially in a time travel episode than involved a Kirk. "The man's a menace". I liked the newer version of the Temporal Investigations clothing.

It is interesting that they acknowledged the various movement of the Eugenics War in the timeline. People are praising it as confirmation that nu-Trek is alternate universe. **** that, its just an in universe explanation of them wanting to keep doing "present time" episodes.

I can't believe Discovery made me think he was terrible.

 

[DKDetective]

I can't believe Discovery made me think he was terrible.

Discovery made a lot of otherwise good things terrible.

 

[Baggers]

With Star Trek: Picard season 2 and Star Trek: Strange New Worlds now mentioning Khan and the Temporal Cold War more and more recently.

It got me thinking, is this leading to something down the line?

Enterprise seems to have hit a renaissance of late with being mentioned in Discovery, Picard and Easter Egged in Strange New Worlds. So if the hate for Star Trek: Enterprise finally over, why not finally give closure to the Temporal Cold War and give us the identity of "Future Guy!!!"

Could be in the form of a Short Trek, Section 31 film, pop up in Discovery's final season, appear more in Strange New Worlds or in Star Trek: Legacy if and when it's picked up.

Just feel the time is now to end this once and for all. We learnt in Discovery's episode "That Hope Is You, Part 1" that Time Travel technology was destroyed and outlawed. So how did it all end? Who was involved? Now with the future Romulan in Strange New World's episode "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" what year did she travel from? Was she looking for revenge for the Supernova incident? Or was she much further in the future? I did like how this Romulan Bird-of-Prey is one of the infamous blurry UFO photos we seen over the years, not counting Quark's Treasure of course.

Another thing about "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" is the time travelling device the guy had that gave to La'an had the same green/red feature the hand scanners had in the Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement. Also the members of this Institute knew the attack was going to happen? (Granted this info was from Sera so we don’t know how true it is…). So does this mean all descendants: with inherited DNA markers are unwilling or willing members of this Temporal Cold War paying a debt for the crimes Khan has caused? Because without him there isn't a Starfleet or Federation!!!

Another point about La'an being send back in time, what if she created the Khan we know today? Not saying he wouldn't have been a tyrant, because as we know:

"For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there’s a Khan Singh waiting in the wings. A superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect."

So that's was always his future. But La'an leaving the gun and having Khan see someone just disappear in front of him, might of made him more defensive, that there will always be enemies around him. Or he could of just used the gun to escape the Institute earlier...either way I feel leaving the gun there wasn't the best idea...

Seán Ferrick of TrekCulture mentioned the whole 21st Century Khan situation with Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement and Adam Soong's Project Khan needs some explaining in a Short Trek. Because with Soong being in 2024 and the Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement in 2022 you can't say Adam is involved with this Institute, so maybe they using his work, but the way it isn't connected makes me feel we missing something. Could it be related to the temporal altered timelines from this Temporal Cold War but why wouldn't have Tallinn and her fellow Traveler know of this? Or did they not care, as long as Khan created they don't mind, doesn't matter which way he created as long as he is?!

Could this explain La'an fate and the fact why Spock will not know of Khan before the events of TOS's episode "Space Seed." That this temporal war will somehow erase La'an from history? She could even join the Temporal Cold War and explain why "canon" isn't affected?!

Maybe just me overthinking but feels like there is more going on than meets the eye. Hell with this you could have a big Avengers: Endgame portal style crossover with any character in Trek you wanted to end this Temporal Cold War. As long as Archer along for the ride I'll be happy.

What you think Guys?!

 

[Dave McFly]

I absolutely LOVED Christina Chong in this specially near the end. Oh one guy called Kirk "James T Carrey" and I cannot unsee it .

 

[Sithborg]

With Star Trek: Picard season 2 and Star Trek: Strange New Worlds now mentioning Khan and the Temporal Cold War more and more recently.

It got me thinking, is this leading to something down the line?

Enterprise seems to have hit a renaissance of late with being mentioned in Discovery, Picard and Easter Egged in Strange New Worlds. So if the hate for Star Trek: Enterprise finally over, why not finally give closure to the Temporal Cold War and give us the identity of "Future Guy!!!"

Could be in the form of a Short Trek, Section 31 film, pop up in Discovery's final season, appear more in Strange New Worlds or in Star Trek: Legacy if and when it's picked up.

Just feel the time is now to end this once and for all. We learnt in Discovery's episode "That Hope Is You, Part 1" that Time Travel technology was destroyed and outlawed. So how did it all end? Who was involved? Now with the future Romulan in Strange New World's episode "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" what year did she travel from? Was she looking for revenge for the Supernova incident? Or was she much further in the future? I did like how this Romulan Bird-of-Prey is one of the infamous blurry UFO photos we seen over the years, not counting Quark's Treasure of course.

Another thing about "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" is the time travelling device the guy had that gave to La'an had the same green/red feature the hand scanners had in the Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement. Also the members of this Institute knew the attack was going to happen? (Granted this info was from Sera so we don’t know how true it is…). So does this mean all descendants: with inherited DNA markers are unwilling or willing members of this Temporal Cold War paying a debt for the crimes Khan has caused? Because without him there isn't a Starfleet or Federation!!!

Another point about La'an being send back in time, what if she created the Khan we know today? Not saying he wouldn't have been a tyrant, because as we know:

"For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there’s a Khan Singh waiting in the wings. A superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect."

So that's was always his future. But La'an leaving the gun and having Khan see someone just disappear in front of him, might of made him more defensive, that there will always be enemies around him. Or he could of just used the gun to escape the Institute earlier...either way I feel leaving the gun there wasn't the best idea...

Seán Ferrick of TrekCulture mentioned the whole 21st Century Khan situation with Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement and Adam Soong's Project Khan needs some explaining in a Short Trek. Because with Soong being in 2024 and the Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement in 2022 you can't say Adam is involved with this Institute, so maybe they using his work, but the way it isn't connected makes me feel we missing something. Could it be related to the temporal altered timelines from this Temporal Cold War but why wouldn't have Tallinn and her fellow Traveler know of this? Or did they not care, as long as Khan created they don't mind, doesn't matter which way he created as long as he is?!

Could this explain La'an fate and the fact why Spock will not know of Khan before the events of TOS's episode "Space Seed." That this temporal war will somehow erase La'an from history? She could even join the Temporal Cold War and explain why "canon" isn't affected?!

Maybe just me overthinking but feels like there is more going on than meets the eye. Hell with this you could have a big Avengers: Endgame portal style crossover with any character in Trek you wanted to end this Temporal Cold War. As long as Archer along for the ride I'll be happy.

What you think Guys?!

I would not look too much into it beyond them just referencing other time travel stuff, like the Department of Temporal Investigations.

And remember, Soong's Khan project was an old project. Not unreasonable that others stole his work and started it without him.

 

[Dr.]

With Star Trek: Picard season 2 and Star Trek: Strange New Worlds now mentioning Khan and the Temporal Cold War more and more recently.

It got me thinking, is this leading to something down the line?

Enterprise seems to have hit a renaissance of late with being mentioned in Discovery, Picard and Easter Egged in Strange New Worlds. So if the hate for Star Trek: Enterprise finally over, why not finally give closure to the Temporal Cold War and give us the identity of "Future Guy!!!"

Could be in the form of a Short Trek, Section 31 film, pop up in Discovery's final season, appear more in Strange New Worlds or in Star Trek: Legacy if and when it's picked up.

Just feel the time is now to end this once and for all. We learnt in Discovery's episode "That Hope Is You, Part 1" that Time Travel technology was destroyed and outlawed. So how did it all end? Who was involved? Now with the future Romulan in Strange New World's episode "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" what year did she travel from? Was she looking for revenge for the Supernova incident? Or was she much further in the future? I did like how this Romulan Bird-of-Prey is one of the infamous blurry UFO photos we seen over the years, not counting Quark's Treasure of course.

Another thing about "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" is the time travelling device the guy had that gave to La'an had the same green/red feature the hand scanners had in the Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement. Also the members of this Institute knew the attack was going to happen? (Granted this info was from Sera so we don’t know how true it is…). So does this mean all descendants: with inherited DNA markers are unwilling or willing members of this Temporal Cold War paying a debt for the crimes Khan has caused? Because without him there isn't a Starfleet or Federation!!!

Another point about La'an being send back in time, what if she created the Khan we know today? Not saying he wouldn't have been a tyrant, because as we know:

"For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there’s a Khan Singh waiting in the wings. A superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect."

So that's was always his future. But La'an leaving the gun and having Khan see someone just disappear in front of him, might of made him more defensive, that there will always be enemies around him. Or he could of just used the gun to escape the Institute earlier...either way I feel leaving the gun there wasn't the best idea...

Seán Ferrick of TrekCulture mentioned the whole 21st Century Khan situation with Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement and Adam Soong's Project Khan needs some explaining in a Short Trek. Because with Soong being in 2024 and the Noonien-Singh Institute for Cultural Advancement in 2022 you can't say Adam is involved with this Institute, so maybe they using his work, but the way it isn't connected makes me feel we missing something. Could it be related to the temporal altered timelines from this Temporal Cold War but why wouldn't have Tallinn and her fellow Traveler know of this? Or did they not care, as long as Khan created they don't mind, doesn't matter which way he created as long as he is?!

Could this explain La'an fate and the fact why Spock will not know of Khan before the events of TOS's episode "Space Seed." That this temporal war will somehow erase La'an from history? She could even join the Temporal Cold War and explain why "canon" isn't affected?!

Maybe just me overthinking but feels like there is more going on than meets the eye. Hell with this you could have a big Avengers: Endgame portal style crossover with any character in Trek you wanted to end this Temporal Cold War. As long as Archer along for the ride I'll be happy.

What you think Guys?!

to your analysis. Regarding Khan, I just know about “Space Seed,” Star Trek II and the Kelvin timeline’s ST: Into Darkness. So I’ll leave it to the Serious Trek Fans™ to figure out whether it all makes sense. (Heck, I’m often confused about Khan Noonien Singh vs Noonien Soong. )

 

[Sithborg]

to your analysis. Regarding Khan, I just know about “Space Seed,” Star Trek II and the Kelvin timeline’s ST: Into Darkness. So I’ll leave it to the Serious Trek Fans™ to figure out whether it all makes sense. (Heck, I’m often confused about Khan Noonien Singh vs Noonien Soong. )

That was another great joke they threw in there, with Kirk mistaking La'an's name.

 

[Primal Slayer]

What a fun episode! While I found it weird at how paired down this season is compared to 1 where it feels like we had majority of the team featured in each episode compared to more smaller pairs this season....I enjoyed it.

The whole temporal war really makes me sad that Discovery didn't bother to integrate the cast into that whole shebang instead of just putting them in a random far future to be a bandaid.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

their reaction to Earth culture of that era, seemed reminiscent to how (Shatner's) Kirk acts in Voyage Home...

 

[Gaultheria]

their reaction to Earth culture of that era, seemed reminiscent to how (Shatner's) Kirk acts in Voyage Home...

Ooh, I like callbacks like this.

There's also their search for the nuclear wessels reactor.

 

[flickchick85]

Loved this episode!

Turns out I can enjoy Wesley's Kirk just fine as long as I stop trying to see him as "our" Kirk, which the setup of this episode made easy to do lol. For real though, he's an engaging enough character to me (now); he's just...still not Kirk. But oh well.

This Spock is so amazing he can be a highlight of the episode with only 3 seconds of screentime.

This was Christina Chong's episode to shine, and shine she did. She did a really great job imo.

Ok but I'm gonna need some seriously Pike-heavy eps later this season to make up for all these virtually Pike-less ones we've been having, though.

 

[titansupes]

Nothing to write home about, but a good bit of fun none the less. My crush on Christina Chong deepens.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

to your analysis. Regarding Khan, I just know about “Space Seed,” Star Trek II and the Kelvin timeline’s ST: Into Darkness. So I’ll leave it to the Serious Trek Fans™ to figure out whether it all makes sense. (Heck, I’m often confused about Khan Noonien Singh vs Noonien Soong. )

it is interesting how Khan's timeline is always shifting... in his original appearance in "Space Speed" I believe it was said that he had risen to power as some type of war lord by the mid 90's (that show originally airing back in the 60's, the 90's probably felt like some far enough off futuristic point in time) but, even by the time next generation/ DS9/ Enterprise came out any mention of these events were said to be in the later 21st century

even here we see what appeared to be modern day (or at least our modern day 2020ish) setting and Khan is shown to still only be a kid (suggesting that his rise to power isn't for like another 20 years down the line)

its like with every new generation of shows, once that point of history that the War Khan was suppose to have fought in has past, they move it to some fourth point in the future

its always perpetually like 20-30 years into (our present day) future of whenever the show/ or movie original airs

 

[DKDetective]

@Sithborg, I'm doing my Lower Decks rewatch in prep for season 4 and I just realized how much this episode has in common with the intended story of Boimler's Holo-movie in Crisis Point 2.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the Romulan assassin's comments about time travel were way to handwave any of the continuity issues. Not a big deal, but I thought her rant was highly amusing.

 

[vantheman77]

They said that the first three episodes of the season will be light on Captain Pike.

Interesting alternate timeline episode with another alternate Kirk.