Secret Wars to return next year.

[Mad Ones]

This thing seems to be alienating to both new readers and long-term fans. I don't get it, even from a business perspective.

 

[Doc Ock]

This thing seems to be alienating to both new readers and long-term fans. I don't get it, even from a business perspective.

To me this is Marvel being Marvel doing their usually Marvel things, except I'm actually really excited about one of their events for once. This could do really well for Marvel, or be another Heroes Reborn. It's not alienating to all, I have faith in Hickman to at least deliver something awesome. All the tie-ins are a plus.

 

[def28]

You mean this one when Belasco brought her back evil?

Spoiler

I suppose. That wasnt right before the current one. X-Infernus was years ago. and she was under some evil influence and they had her as a soulless being residing over hell. She changed it when she got a piece of her soul back and decided to join the Xmen redemption. That look simply doesnt fit her now bc she has her full soul, she isnt evil, nor is Limbo her home. This was her look right before the current one:

Spoiler

As far as the black costume combining elements from her previous designs, I dont see anything about it inspired by her past looks. Maybe the asymetrical shoulder design, but its pretty different from her original Eldritch armor

I think for sure they took that Darkchilde stuff into account through the many years it's been around. She herself has had many different costumes overall through the decades. The black shoulder design carried over from AvsX, and I believe it was also introduced eariler. Could be wrong there. Post AvsX she did change alot and was having issues discovering the full potential and control of her Power, pretty much why she she met Strange. Even before all that she was manipultaing the X-Men and locked up due to all the stuff in Limbo. She has definitely been the ruler there at times, and a majority of her character defining arcs come from there. Limbo has to do alot with not only her state of mind and powers, but also her changes as we've seen. It represents alot of her has a character, even down to her main rivals. She's been through some pretty tramutic stuff all her life with that realm and fits into the dark fantasy side of X-Men more so then other members, so I can see inspiration of the design through there, and her own designs from the many past years.

That said, I'm sure they could have made it a bit more on the conservative side and be more X-Men team influenced. Personally I dig it though. Definitely calls more attention to her that's for sure. For the members of the Phoenix 5 I think the idea was to take a darker approach in design after what happened, not to go back to the bright yellow and blue. Thematically and story wise having a darker change makes more sense. Maybe it's also just my exposure to other non X stories stories revolving around dark fantasy stuff, but I don't really have an issue with it. To each their own though.

 

[Mad Ones]

The stereotype that darker women = more sexualized needs to end already. At least Magik's characterization makes up for it.

To me this is Marvel being Marvel doing their usually Marvel things, except I'm actually really excited about one of their events for once. This could do really well for Marvel, or be another Heroes Reborn. It's not alienating to all, I have faith in Hickman to at least deliver something awesome. All the tie-ins are a plus.

I hope you're right! I can't see new readers being excited about this at all since so much is referential to older stories. And older fans are already criticizing this as a DC-like move. I'll check it out, but I've really enjoyed a lot since Marvel Now.

 

[def28]

The stereotype that darker women = more sexualized needs to end already. At least Magik's characterization makes up for it.

What are you talking about stereotyope? Everything is a stereotype nowadays. Rather you agree or not, how are we not discussing character here?

 

[Mad Ones]

It's a stereotype larger than just comics, where women who are supposed to be edgier or darker or morally dubious dress more provocatively, linking moral transgression with the sexualized female body. There are hundreds of examples.

Not sure what you mean by that second part?

 

[def28]

It's a stereotype larger than just comics, where women who are supposed to be edgier or darker or morally dubious dress more provocatively, linking moral transgression with the sexualized female body. There are hundreds of examples.

Everything can be lumped into a certain category. Conan, John Carter and plenty of other male characters in that genre don't wear much and go by certain cliched standards. Doesn't mean they have to dissapear.

Most these Women are extremely powerful and not written poorly. Even the ones that are on the more Adult side of things.

Not sure what you mean by that second part?

Discussing how her look deals with her as a character.

Magik has hardly had any controversy regarding her design. If the issue is just the boob window would there still be a problem cause it's more on the fantasy side of things and black? Plenty of these designs are overall ridiculous, over the top and silly.

 

[Doc Ock]

I hope you're right! I can't see new readers being excited about this at all since so much is referential to older stories. And older fans are already criticizing this as a DC-like move. I'll check it out, but I've really enjoyed a lot since Marvel Now.

For me, the constant barrage of events Marvel has done in the 21st century have gotten very tiring. I feel like this is the first event Marvel has done in a long time with a proper buildup. Of course it could fall flat on it's face, but even if the main Secret Wars story isn't interesting there is going to so many tie-ins offering something for everyone.

It is being criticized as a DC-like move but we haven't actually read the story yet and don't know if that will be the case. I for one don't feel like this will be a reboot in the sense of the way DC does things. I hope it does well, gets new readers afterwards without the need of an actual reboot. I prefer Marvel to DC because they have never completely rebooted their continuity, I was always okay with their sliding timeline. I think it will be more of a shakeup and a new status quo than a DC "Crisis" that changes/erases the previous versions of characters. We will see! I have hope.

 

[Mad Ones]

I've sadly disliked every event Marvel has put out in the Marvel Now era. Original Sin was terrible and I couldn't even finish Axis. Hickman wrote that Thanos event that I disliked as well.

Everything can be lumped into a certain category. Conan and John Carter don't wear much.

Is Conan or John Carter's lack of clothing linked with ambiguous morality. You don't see the difference here?

Magik has hardly had any controversy regarding her design. If the issue is just the boob window would there still be a problem cause it's more on the fantasy side of things and black? Plenty of these designs are overall ridiculous, over the top and silly.

Male costumes are often practical (or usually justified). Female costumes have boob windows.

 

[def28]

Is Conan or John Carter's lack of clothing linked with ambiguous morality. You don't see the difference here?

I think your completely off that all these female fantasy characters are not written with interesting characterization and respect because you have too big of an issue with the way they are drawn and the lack of clothes they are in. All this stuff is fantasy. Gail Simones Red Sonja is awesome, there's excellent stuff out there.

And if the other B level trash aint your thing then it aint your thing. Other people can dig it, and you or whoever else can stay away from it. Most of it is not to be taken seriously. But there's a way to separate the good from the bad, and know better on said material.

Male costumes are often practical (or usually justified). Female costumes have boob windows.

And how is that any more revealing then plenty of tops Women wear in real life. Male or Female alot of this **** is flat out dumb and not practical in reality.

 

[Mad Ones]

I'm not talking about characterization. I'm talking about their clothing. I think Magik has been absolutely brilliant in Uncanny. But the only reason she is dressed that way is to appeal to that tired stereotype that exists in way more than fantasy, and as an excuse to make her sexy (which is probably a Bachalo thing - most of his designs include short skirts and bizarre sexualizations).

Magik isn't even that dark. She makes jokes and is a good source of some humour. She's tough and brutal, but also contemplative with her training with Doctor Strange. No reason to wear what she's wearing.

Cyclops' costume represents his new darker personality without showing an inch of skin. There are clearly gender differences at play here.

Red Sonja is more akin to Conan and John Carter than she is to the X-men. That's a genre where all of the characters expose skin. Which is totally fine, if it's not in a T&A kind of way (which it certainly is sometimes, but sometimes not).

 

[def28]

I'm not talking about characterization. I'm talking about their clothing. I think Magik has been absolutely brilliant in Uncanny. But the only reason she is dressed that way is to appeal to that tired stereotype that exists in way more than fantasy, and as an excuse to make her sexy (which is probably a Bachalo thing - most of his designs include short skirts and bizarre sexualizations).

Magik isn't even that dark. She makes jokes and is a good source of some humour. She's tough and brutal, but also contemplative with her training with Doctor Strange. No reason to wear what she's wearing.

And I disagree with alot of this as I said in my post above. Her design in AvsX was also going on that path and they added to it. There are definitely dark attributes to Magik, and given the position the team was in post AvsX so were they.

Red Sonja is more akin to Conan and John Carter than she is to the X-men. That's a genre where all of the characters expose skin. Which is totally fine, if it's not in a T&A kind of way (which it certainly is sometimes, but sometimes not).

Magik's story, weapons, armor, enemies and powers were very influenced by the Sword And Sorcery genre.

 

[Mad Ones]

Why does Magik look the way she does and why does Cyclops look the way he does? They're both "dark" and have gone through the same AvX experiences.

 

[def28]

Why does Magik look the way she does and why does Cyclops look the way he does? They're both "dark" and have gone through the same AvX experiences.

Both have significantly different backgrounds and styles. Magik has also had a full on demonic persona, who has worn even less then she does now.

Why isn't Eva Bell wearing what Magik is? There are characteristics and a background that are more akin to Magik wearing what she does then other characters.

 

[Mad Ones]

Why does demonic = a boob window and a bikini, though??

Have you seen how Bachalo draws Eva Bell? The skirt might as well be a bikini.

 

[def28]

Limbo looks hot.

If there was a dude in limbo with the more barbarian fantasy type look would that be an issue?

Sorry for the debate. I know there's issues within the genre, and I should have looked at the bigger picture more. I think alot of time Women are just overall looked at as more beautiful with their bodies and what artists can do with fashion has more possibilities to show that. The exploitive stuff within the mainstream has got alot better imo. Here I just don't find most of this stuff an issue or to be taken seriously be it male or female. All of us react to material in different ways though.... I just think she's looks rad and the looks fits fine. More so then her others. She appears more dangerous.

 

[Mad Ones]

I guess Limbo is a specific kind of fetish.

I think Marvel has made huge improvements with how they depict women, which is why Magik stands out for me. I'll always hate pointless boob windows, but Magik does look a lot better when Anka draws her. I love his art.

 

[def28]

Most of my favorite characters from Marvel right now are Women. Love that we are getting a Spider-Gwen book, Kates back in Hawkeye and Nico is on A-Force. Kate and Nico are awesome.

Would actually prefer Magik to walk away from X-Men for a bit and get a solo or team up with Doc Strange.

 

[Mad Ones]

I'm loving Ms Marvel and the new Thor, and Jean in All New X-men. Hopefully we see more of Sorceress Supreme Magik in Secret Wars, somehow.

 

[def28]

I forgot about Thor! Excellent book.

Need to pick back up on Ms Marvel but I've dug what I've read so far. Definitely hoping for some more Magik in secret wars.

 

[Havok83]

I think for sure they took that Darkchilde stuff into account through the many years it's been around. She herself has had many different costumes overall through the decades. The black shoulder design carried over from AvsX, and I believe it was also introduced eariler. Could be wrong there. Post AvsX she did change alot and was having issues discovering the full potential and control of her Power, pretty much why she she met Strange. Even before all that she was manipultaing the X-Men and locked up due to all the stuff in Limbo. She has definitely been the ruler there at times, and a majority of her character defining arcs come from there. Limbo has to do alot with not only her state of mind and powers, but also her changes as we've seen. It represents alot of her has a character, even down to her main rivals. She's been through some pretty tramutic stuff all her life with that realm and fits into the dark fantasy side of X-Men more so then other members, so I can see inspiration of the design through there, and her own designs from the many past years.

That said, I'm sure they could have made it a bit more on the conservative side and be more X-Men team influenced. Personally I dig it though. Definitely calls more attention to her that's for sure. For the members of the Phoenix 5 I think the idea was to take a darker approach in design after what happened, not to go back to the bright yellow and blue. Thematically and story wise having a darker change makes more sense. Maybe it's also just my exposure to other non X stories stories revolving around dark fantasy stuff, but I don't really have an issue with it. To each their own though.

Unless Ive missed something, she's still the ruler of Limbo....lol. I was just saying she doesnt reside there anymore, like she did after her resurrection. She has a soul, is in touch with her humanity and lives on Earth. Now that you mention it, I can see the inspiration from the Phoenix 5 look. I wasnt even thinking of that

This thing seems to be alienating to both new readers and long-term fans. I don't get it, even from a business perspective.

IA. Id rather they just do a full on reboot bc everything from the last couple of years and especially this is alienating and confusing IMO.

 

[def28]

Unless Ive missed something, she's still the ruler of Limbo....lol. I was just saying she doesnt reside there anymore, like she did after her resurrection. She has a soul, is in touch with her humanity and lives on Earth. Now that you mention it, I can see the inspiration from the Phoenix 5 look. I wasnt even thinking of that

Yeah, she is. That position has had to be reclaimed off an on though. I should have worded that better.

 

[BoredGuy]

I think Marvel has made huge improvements with how they depict women, which is why Magik stands out for me. I'll always hate pointless boob windows, but Magik does look a lot better when Anka draws her. I love his art.

Yeah, I agree, Magik's costume doesn't fit the character, Emma it does, and I'll defend Power Girl's costume till the end of time, but there have been huge strides in the depictions.
the only thing that bothers me is how all females now are getting these full body SHIELD inspired body suits that have enough baggy points so you can see its clearly not latex or whatever because, I mean, god forbid superheroes wear form-fitting clothes
Im just getting very bored of the same damn redesign on every female character, and now they're bringin in these hipster elements with batgirl, spider-gwen, and spiderwoman
If men have variety in their costumes, so should women, and it should fit their personalities

 

[CTFFFan]

let's see. No more FF, Thor is now a female, the Falcon is now Captain America. Captain America is now an old man.

I know the FF is going away but do they appear in Secret Wars?

 

[OutcryX]

Wait. So are Marvel and DC both doing the same thing? non reboot Reboots of their universes?
From Solicits and news I have read of both events it seems as if Secret Wars and Convergence will both be having the same effect.