The Dark Knight So Batman's now a murderer.

[CJ]

I just started thinking about this.

Batman has decided in order to stop The Joker, everyone must believe that Batman himself committed Harvey Dent's murders.

The Police charge in with their dogs, as Batman runs off into the night.

But wait a second.. Let's see this from the cops viewpoint. WHY would Batman, a guy who has spent the past two years or so, helping the Gotham PD fight crime, a guy who has never killed a single criminal he has brought to justice, suddenly kill the city's District Attorney, Harvey Dent, a man who has saved the city from organized crime, and did nothing wrong? a man who Batman had befriended, a man who Batman previously saved from an exploding building, AND the Joker's semi-truck/thugs?

WHY did Batman, just minutes after apprehending the city's most notorious criminal, decide to kidnap Harvey Dent and take him to 250 52nd St in order to kill him? Why did Batman take off his hospital gown and put him back in his old clothes? What was the point of bringing Harvey's coin with him?

Are the Gotham Police this stupid to believe Gordon's story? Batman has no motive to commit the crimes he's accused of, killing Dent just goes against everything Batman stands for. Why are Gordon's wife and kids there? Why did the cops just charge in with their dogs, no questions asked?

Guess we'll just have to wait for the sequel to see how Gordon and the Gotham PD handle the situation.

 

[Bathead]

VERY good questions.
A couple of posters in another thread stated they thouht TDK was perfectly wrapped up with no loose ends, and the series could end there. You've brought up a number of good questions that would tend to make me think there are a BUNCH of loose ends here, that need tied up. Nolan really needs to address these issues in BB3. I really feel this little conspiracy between Bats and Gordon vis-a-vis Batman taking the blame for Dent's crimes is gonna come back and bite them in the behind. And it should, IMO.

 

[Travesty]

To tell you the truth, I think it was a pretty weak way of Batman taking the blame, especially how there are people like Ramirez, who knows that it was Harvey(Two-Face) that killed those cops. But hey, without Batman doing that, the movie wouldn't be called The Dark Knight.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

VERY good questions.
A couple of posters in another thread stated they thouht TDK was perfectly wrapped up with no loose ends, and the series could end there. You've brought up a number of good questions that would tend to make me think there are a BUNCH of loose ends here, that need tied up. Nolan really needs to address these issues in BB3. I really feel this little conspiracy between Bats and Gordon vis-a-vis Batman taking the blame for Dent's crimes is gonna come back and bite them in the behind. And it should, IMO.

These are things that The Ridler, if, he is in the movie could use against them.

 

[frakkingoff]

Why would the cops believe he'd do that?

Because he's a stone-cold psycho - at least, everyone in Gotham thinks so. The guy spends his nights in a bat costume, cruising around in a tank, blowing stuff up, and smashing criminals. He's a loose cannon and now he finally went over the edge.

Plus, who told the cops that Batman was a murderer? James Gordon - Batman's closest friend, ally, and liaison with the cops. Why would the cops NOT take Gordon at his word? What's Gordon got to gain from losing Batman (I mean, Batman practically MADE Gordon's career for him). And based on his conversation with his son, you can bet he coached his family to go along with the story.

 

[Bathead]

Why would the cops believe he'd do that?

Because he's a stone-cold psycho - at least, everyone in Gotham thinks so. The guy spends his nights in a bat costume, cruising around in a tank, blowing stuff up, and smashing criminals. He's a loose cannon and now he finally went over the edge.

Plus, who told the cops that Batman was a murderer? James Gordon - Batman's closest friend, ally, and liaison with the cops. Why would the cops NOT take Gordon at his word? What's Gordon got to gain from losing Batman (I mean, Batman practically MADE Gordon's career for him). And based on his conversation with his son, you can bet he coached his family to go along with the story.

So basically you're saying Gordon is teaching his son to lie to the authorities? I don't buy it one bit. If there's one thing I can say about Nolan, he at least gets the characters in the Batman mythos right,and that would be WAY out of character for Gordon. If he is, there is gonna have to be major repercussions in BB3 for him. Perhaps a loss of respect from his son, causing him to have second thoughts about this dubious course of action. Something, because quite frankly, I can see this plan of his and Batman's falling apart like a house of cards in a stiff breeze.

 

[CConn]

Batman''s been a murderer for years.

 

[frakkingoff]

So basically you're saying Gordon is teaching his son to lie to the authorities? I don't buy it one bit. If there's one thing I can say about Nolan, he at least gets the characters in the Batman mythos right,and that would be WAY out of character for Gordon.

Did you not see the same ending I saw?

Gordon HIMSELF is lying to the authorities. And he's explaining to his son why he's doing it, in that final speech. Why would he not want his son to perpetuate the lie, rather than break it?

I don't think it's out of character - Gordon's about doing the right thing. Legal or illegal, what Gordon's doing is right - it's for the right reasons and it harms no one, save the man who wanted it this way and asked Gordon for it (Batman).

To keep the city hopeful, to keep it's spirit vigilant and not let it be crushed by the weight of corruption and organized crime once more. To inspire bravery in its citizens. Why would Gordon have a problem with that? Or have a problem with his son participating? (If he did, why bother giving him the speech at the end?)

Plus, Gordon's not above deception, for the right reasons, in Nolan's world - for instance, he's perfectly willing to "play dead" after Loeb's funeral, for the sake of protecting his family. Or perpetuating the lie that Dent was Batman (when Gordon's one of the few people who KNOWS he's not), by refusing to speak out until the time was right to come out of hiding.

If he is, there is gonna have to be major repercussions in BB3 for him. Perhaps a loss of respect from his son, causing him to have second thoughts about this dubious course of action. Something, because quite frankly, I can see this plan of his and Batman's falling apart like a house of cards in a stiff breeze.

Nobody knows where Nolan's going to take the story next.

But consider the fact that Gordon's son clearly idolizes Batman. If he knows that this lie is what Batman wants - and that it was Batman's idea - then I suspect he would have no problem keeping the secret to his grave.

 

[frakkingoff]

Batman''s been a murderer for years.

Not in modern comics continuity, or Nolan's continuity.

Batman has murdered in older comics and in the Burton continuity, however.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Maybe Batman finally cracked.

 

[BestGirl]

^That's what I would assume if I were a Gotham cop. Everyone in Gotham was going crazy during the Joker's reign of terror; hundreds of plain old ordinary citizens were willing to kill Reese, remember. Why would Batman be immune from the insanity?

Nevertheless, having questions swirl around the official story would give Gordon an interesting subplot in B3.

 

[Brother Jack]

You have to remember that technically Batman was already an outlaw with a mixed response with the public, and that through the course of the movie the public more so than ever saw him as an enemy. Batman being a murderer is just an extension of that. He's a masked vigilante who can't be brought in for questioning. You don't really need motive, you can slap virtually any charge on him with the "he is clearly insane" reasoning and it will fly.

 

[Bats]

Batman has decided in order to stop The Joker, everyone must believe that Batman himself committed Harvey Dent's murders.

That's assuming we're talking about Harvey's victims (only 2 killed with 2 others assaulted on film). With the questions you've asked isn't it more believable that they're going after him for the murders of Brian Douglas, Richard Dent, Patrick Harvey, Commissioner Loeb & Judge Surillo? In that if Batman turned himself in, those people would still be alive?

I think it's more about Gordon focusing the negative on Batman so that Two-Face/Dent would be "swept under the rug". And also because their partnership would never be corrupted by anyone ever again. Something like that....

And please folks.....this has been argued a number of times before, so if you don't agree with me about the ending or the 5 dead mentioned, fine. I'm not going over it again. Danke!

 

[Brother Jack]

And please folks.....this has been argued a number of times before, so if you don't agree with me about the ending or the 5 dead mentioned, fine. I'm not going over it again. Danke!

It's fine if you don't want to discuss it, but you have to realize that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Bats]

And off-screen non-murders & self-imposed plothole fillers do? Rrriiiiiiigggghhhhhtttt.....

 

[CConn]

Not in modern comics continuity, or Nolan's continuity.

Batman has murdered in older comics and in the Burton continuity, however.

Lol, Batman killed people in Batman Begins multiple times.

And actually, Batman kills people in the comics quite a bit as well. It's just in the "oops I didn't know you were in that building I just demolished" way.

Okay, so maybe he's not a murderer. But I'll be damned if a good prosecutor couldn't pin at least a dozen counts of manslaughter on him.

 

[CJ]

Also, this was brought up before, but the sniper heard Gordon asking Dent where his family is on the phone. You can clearly see a "WTF?" expression on his face.

I was starting to think that Nolan was going to make Batman a character who is always on the run, but with all of these holes in Gordon/Batman's story, it is inevitable that Batman's name will be cleared. Otherwise the Gotham PD are complete idiots.

 

[Travesty]

The thing that pissed me off the most from this, is that Gordon had to smash the Bat-signal. Now we don't have a Tumbler(Batmobile), a cave, or a Bat-signal.

 

[CConn]

Um, I'm pretty sure the cave and batmobile will be back pretty fast in the next movie.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I just started thinking about this.

Batman has decided in order to stop The Joker, everyone must believe that Batman himself committed Harvey Dent's murders.

The Police charge in with their dogs, as Batman runs off into the night.

But wait a second.. Let's see this from the cops viewpoint. WHY would Batman, a guy who has spent the past two years or so, helping the Gotham PD fight crime, a guy who has never killed a single criminal he has brought to justice, suddenly kill the city's District Attorney, Harvey Dent, a man who has saved the city from organized crime, and did nothing wrong? a man who Batman had befriended, a man who Batman previously saved from an exploding building, AND the Joker's semi-truck/thugs?

WHY did Batman, just minutes after apprehending the city's most notorious criminal, decide to kidnap Harvey Dent and take him to 250 52nd St in order to kill him? Why did Batman take off his hospital gown and put him back in his old clothes? What was the point of bringing Harvey's coin with him?

Are the Gotham Police this stupid to believe Gordon's story? Batman has no motive to commit the crimes he's accused of, killing Dent just goes against everything Batman stands for. Why are Gordon's wife and kids there? Why did the cops just charge in with their dogs, no questions asked?

Guess we'll just have to wait for the sequel to see how Gordon and the Gotham PD handle the situation.

"Because your commissioner says so!"

The thing that pissed me off the most from this, is that Gordon had to smash the Bat-signal. Now we don't have a Tumbler(Batmobile), a cave, or a Bat-signal.

I loved that scene. Gordon alone in a sea of journalists and photographers smashing the bat-signal!

 

[Brother Jack]

And off-screen non-murders & self-imposed plothole fillers do? Rrriiiiiiigggghhhhhtttt.....

We see Dent kill three people and incapacitate one, leaving Gordon to assume she's dead (Ramirez). There is only one who is unaccounted for. Everyone knows Joker killed the people that he killed, there is no way that a) Batman could believably take legal responsibility for them and b) that Harvey's murders could be "swept under the rug" (Gordon even says that exactly).

 

[Bats]

*sigh* Okay, last time real quick:

1. We see Dent kill TWO people: Wuertz & Maroni's driver. He incapacitates THREE: Ramirez, Maroni & Maroni's other bodyguard.
2. Joker killed those people because Batman wouldn't take off his mask (Joker: "You let 5 people die...." & Ramirez "Us contaminate? It's because of you these guys are dead..."). With him working with the police not only doesn't it make them look good to the public, but also because crooks can get to Batman through them. That's part of why at the end that they have to chase him. Batman's taking the attention on himself instead of having the police deal with anyone like the Joker again (Patrick Harvey, Richard Dent & Commissioner Loeb).
3. Adios!
4. Auf Wiedersen!
5. All of the above.

 

[TheBatman072]

This thread makes me

 

[frakkingoff]

Lol, Batman killed people in Batman Begins multiple times.

What? Did you not understand that the whole point of that movie was Batman learning to dispense justice WITHOUT killing?

If you're going to make a claim like that, you need to point out WHO he killed.

 

[Travesty]

What? Did you not understand that the whole point of that movie was Batman learning to dispense justice WITHOUT killing?

If you're going to make a claim like that, you need to point out WHO he killed.

I'm not to sure who he's talking about, but it may be the ninjas in the temple that blew up. Other then that, I can't think of a time where he killed anybody. Although, he did wreck a ton of stuff.