No Way Home Spider-Man 4 General News and Discussion Thread

[Venom 1988]

It is possible to discuss SM4, potential plot points on this thread without getting into toxic battles?

Who exactly is getting toxic??

Why do so many people want SM4 to be like Matt Reeves Batman?

Who exactly lol? Like coming on here and stating this doesn't mean this is true. I even frequent some of the the various subreddit boards and this doesn't even seem to be the general consensus. Also part of the reason why Holland took time off from acting was also due to the all the back to back projects he was doing like the MCU movies.

 

[Frodo]

In all honesty , writing a Spiderman 4 in the context of NWH, is going to be a challenge regardless .

NWH , while a great ending , feels TO ME, in alot of ways ,like the end to that Peter Parker's story, as opposed to a launching point to new story possibilities.
Given that Sony/ Marvel used several iconic villains ,they're basically off the table for being introduced in part 4, even if they're 616 versions.

And the villains left unused, while popular in fandom, can't carry a Spiderman film, in terms of being lead villains.

There's Venom, but he's problematic at the moment, and it would probably be too soon to introduce a 616 version anyway.
The other villains like Kraven have been tainted by Sony stink, and Black Cat doesn't seem to be an option as a villain, or love interest, since Sony seemingly, wants her all to themselves.

Kingpin is basically the last top teer Spiderman villain untouched by the Sony-verse , and makes the most sense if we're talking big , street level ,opponents.

At the same time, given where the last film ended , and if we are going with Kingpin and Daredevil , going darker seems the most logical step .
To what extent they would go darker remains to be seen , but I don't see this probably older , more seasoned Peter , being as happy go lucky guy he was in the previous films .


And all this is not even taking into account resolving the MJ, Spell, memory stuff ,and that this film is leading into Secret Wars in which Spiderman, takes a big role .

So the film is gonna be challenging from a story standpoint, regardless of what Feige or Sony feel the right direction to go is.
I think both studios are probably struggling with how to move forward with a 4th film .

Now, maybe there differing ideas will force them to compromise, and the story will be better for it .

At this point, I don't know .

But I'm more certain now, that Sony, and probably even Iger , aren't gonna be willing to give Feige and Marvel Studios, the long time they probably were hoping for.
I think this thing , if the current rumors hold true, is coming out fall or Christmas 2025 , as opposed to sometime in 2026.

 

[Davos]

In all honesty , writing a Spiderman 4 in the context of NWH, is going to be a challenge regardless .

NWH , while a great ending , feels TO ME, in alot of ways ,like the end to that Peter Parker's story, as opposed to a launching point to new story possibilities.
Given that Sony/ Marvel used several iconic villains ,they're basically off the table for being introduced in part 4, even if they're 616 versions.

And the villains left unused, while popular in fandom, can't carry a Spiderman film, in terms of being lead villains.

There's Venom, but he's problematic at the moment, and it would probably be too soon to introduce a 616 version anyway.
The other villains like Kraven have been tainted by Sony stink, and Black Cat doesn't seem to be an option as a villain, or love interest, since Sony seemingly, wants her all to themselves.

Kingpin is basically the last top teer Spiderman villain untouched by the Sony-verse , and makes the most sense if we're talking big , street level ,opponents.

At the same time, given where the last film ended , and if we are going with Kingpin and Daredevil , going darker seems the most logical step .
To what extent they would go darker remains to be seen , but I don't see this probably older , more seasoned Peter , being as happy go lucky guy he was in the previous films .


And all this is not even taking into account resolving the MJ, Spell, memory stuff ,and that this film is leading into Secret Wars in which Spiderman, takes a big role .

So the film is gonna be challenging from a story standpoint, regardless of what Feige or Sony feel the right direction to go is.
I think both studios are probably struggling with how to move forward with a 4th film .

Now, maybe there differing ideas will force them to compromise, and the story will be better for it .

At this point, I don't know .

But I'm more certain now, that Sony, and probably even Iger , aren't gonna be willing to give Feige and Marvel Studios, the long time they probably were hoping for.
I think this thing , if the current rumors hold true, is coming out fall or Christmas 2025 , as opposed to sometime in 2026.

They really wrote themselves into the corner. Could the ending of NWH have worked without tears in reality and that final memory spell? May Parker is still dead. In fairness, right now it seems that the easiest way to resolve those issues with the memory spell is through actions in Deadpool & Wolverine. Four months remaining in post, with a few pickup shots scheduled. Think Sony would allow it? Seems like the easy way to get around the ending. As for the villain, people are forgetting that Scorpion exists. And Rhino has not been properly done on film.

 

[Davos]

Who exactly is getting toxic??


Who exactly lol? Like coming on here and stating this doesn't mean this is true. I even frequent some of the the various subreddit boards and this doesn't even seem to be the general consensus. Also part of the reason why Holland took time off from acting was also due to the all the back to back projects he was doing like the MCU movies.

A fair amount of people on Reddit. Spend too much time on it reading every rumor and every theory, on top of the interviews with the creatives and stars of NWH, and it just drives you mad. I'm just trying to discuss possible paths that take real life events and studio decisions into account. Like the delay and possible cancellation of Euphoria, for example. There are a lot of fanboys on reddit who don't want Zendaya back. But fans can only say so much. The calls will be made by people working in Burbank and Culver City, and, to a lesser extent, a young couple who reside in West London.

 

[Venom 1988]

I'm just trying to discuss possible paths while taking real life events and studio decisions into account.

That's fine but you say stuff like this

It is possible to discuss SM4, potential plot points on this thread without getting into toxic battles?

Can we discuss, rationally, the likely direction that Spiderman 4 will go?

you're implying people are acting toxic in this thread when everyone has been pretty cordial with their own thoughts and opinions. Otherwise, what warrants these comments?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Sony is too stupid to understand the concept of diminishing returns. Even ignoring the question of multiverse vs grounded, the simple fact is that Tobey and Andrew meeting Tom is old hat now. On the other hand having Kingpin face off against Spider-man is something we haven't seen in the MCU before (or in any live action Spider-man movie), despite Kingpin being an extremely iconic and memorable opponent of Spider-man across many other versions of Spider-man, and the MCU has a popular version of Kingpin with a lot of buildup. It should be so obvious.

of course! All Sony cares about is trying to make the biggest bucks possible every time. They're probably thinking that having another multiverse-centered story will guarantee another multi-billion dollar box office hit, but you're absolutely right; I think that is old hat now and the novelty wears off the more they do it.

if they do it in doses, then the multiverse character appearances come off as special. if they do it all the time, then it becomes gimmicky and also probably makes for uninteresting storytelling. hell, even NwH had a pretty stupid plot of how the multiverse got broken in the first place, in my opinion.

I hope at the very least Sony would see how a team up of Daredevil & Spider-Man on film would garner a lot of attention; the Netflix series is not only held in high regard but is considered one of the greatest outputs of the MCU (now that it is officially acknowledged by the film studio and we can put to rest whether the series actually is canon or not). Sony put Matt Murdock's face in the thumbnail of the youtube video showing the first 10 minutes of NwH:

They listened to Disney last time, and it paid off big time. as stupid as they may be, let's hope they listen again.

 

[Frodo]

They really wrote themselves into the corner. Could the ending of NWH have worked without tears in reality and that final memory spell? May Parker is still dead. In fairness, right now it seems that the easiest way to resolve those issues with the memory spell is through actions in Deadpool & Wolverine. Four months remaining in post, with a few pickup shots scheduled. Think Sony would allow it? Seems like the easy way to get around the ending. As for the villain, people are forgetting that Scorpion exists.

To be fair , Scorpion is not exactly a lead villain for a film.

He's hired muscle at best, which I tend to think he'll be the next time we see him.

He'll probably be working for Kingpin, or another Big bad villain like Mr. Negative.
There have been rumors they will bring him back in that type of capacity anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if he puts an appearance in S4.

 

[Davos]

That's fine but you say stuff like this



you're implying people are acting toxic in this thread when everyone has been pretty cordial with their own thoughts and opinions. Otherwise, what warrants these comments?

No, I am not implying anything about this thread. I was referring to people acting toxic on Reddit. I am sorry.

 

[Davos]

To be fair , Scorpion is not exactly a lead villain for a film.

He's hired muscle at best, which I tend to think he'll be the next time we see him.

He'll probably be working for Kingpin, or another Big bad villain like Mr. Negative.
There have been rumors they will bring him back in that type of capacity anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if he puts an appearance in S4.

Could JJJ work as an actual villain? A Big Bad? There are days in which I think about the MCU version paying a price for his actions and there are days where I think about him being humbled and made sympathetic.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

To be fair , Scorpion is not exactly a lead villain for a film.

He's hired muscle at best, which I tend to think he'll be the next time we see him.

He'll probably be working for Kingpin, or another Big bad villain like Mr. Negative.
There have been rumors they will bring him back in that type of capacity anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if he puts an appearance in S4.

I hope so. Michael Mando has been so underutilized in this series and it's time that actor made a comeback here. I think he could work as a secondary villain while Kingpin would be the main antagonist.

At the same time though, I don't want Kingpin to be a one & done supervillain. For those who were watching the Daredevil show, we saw that even though he was subdued in the first season, he remained a main character in season 2 and was the main villain of the third season.

I'm sure Kingpin's story arc (if he does show up in a Spider-Man film) will have already had some significant events in Daredevil Born again, I'm assuming that's what's coming first, and I don't think he'll only be around for one season of that show either.

Before the cancelation of the Netflix show, I remember reading that the writers were penning to have 2 more seasons and a final showdown would take place between Daredevil & Kingpin in the fifth and final season, but of course with the soft reboot the writing has probably changed a bit.

I think Kingpin should stick around for the whole trilogy; if memory serves correctly, he was the founder of the Sinister Six in the comics, so Sony could finally have the Sinister Six film they've always wanted in the third installment of the second trilogy and that can be Kingpin's final downfall.

 

[Frodo]

Could JJJ work as an actual villain? A Big Bad? There are days in which I think about the MCU version paying a price for his actions and there are days where I think about him being humbled and made sympathetic.

I definitely think, and hope at least, JJJ will remain a presence in the MCU and in the Spiderman films.

I think he'll continue to be a thorn in Spiderman side , so , in that sense, he'll be an antagonist .

I doubt they'll make this version an out and out villain , though, whether or not he's portrayed as sympathetic really depends on whether or not Peter comes to work for him, or whether the remains a celebrity who Peter never meets .

I tend to think we'll get a more sympathetic view of this version if Peter comes to work for him, and gets to know him ala The Raimi films.

 

[Frodo]

I hope so. Michael Mando has been so underutilized in this series and it's time that actor made a comeback here. I think he could work as a secondary villain while Kingpin would be the main antagonist.

At the same time though, I don't want Kingpin to be a one & done supervillain. For those who were watching the Daredevil show, we saw that even though he was subdued in the first season, he remained a main character in season 2 and was the main villain of the third season.

I'm sure Kingpin's story arc (if he does show up in a Spider-Man film) will have already had some significant events in Daredevil Born again, I'm assuming that's what's coming first, and I don't think he'll only be around for one season of that show either.

Before the cancelation of the Netflix show, I remember reading that the writers were penning to have 2 more seasons and a final showdown would take place between Daredevil & Kingpin in the fifth and final season, but of course with the soft reboot the writing has probably changed a bit.

I think Kingpin should stick around for the whole trilogy; if memory serves correctly, he was the founder of the Sinister Six in the comics, so Sony could finally have the Sinister Six film they've always wanted in the third installment of the second trilogy and that can be Kingpin's final downfall.

Yeah.
In a way, he can't be defeated in the film .
His plans can be foiled, or stopped, but I think it would be a mistake for Spiderman to have him tossed in jail at the end.
I think he needs to be a persistent threat that Peter can't just defeat, and lock away , with the help of his friends.

He isn't Vulture or Mysterio.

I think of characters like the CEO version of Lex Luthor , Blofeld from the Bond mythology, or Professor Moriarty , who have connections, criminal organizations, and tentacles, so vast, that it isn't easy to take them down in one foul swoop.

To be clear, I'm not using those characters as examples because they're all bald guys. .



It would be interesting for Peter to face an opponent like Fisk ,who isn't so easily taken down , even if Peter knows how dirty he is .
Unlike Mysterio or Vulture,

Spoiler: Potential Spoiler

Kingpin will be Mayor , assuming the rumors are true , and he'll be untouchable in a way that will present a different type of challenge ,than this Peter is used to dealing with.

.

 

[Venom 1988]

No, I am not implying anything about this thread. I was referring to people acting toxic on Reddit. I am sorry.

No worries. Was confused by what you meant but if that's not the case then all good.

Also welcome to the Hype!

 

[Davos]

I doubt they'll make this version an out and out villain , though, whether or not he's portrayed as sympathetic really depends on whether or not Peter comes to work for him, or whether the remains a celebrity who Peter never meets .

I tend to think we'll get a more sympathetic view of this version if Peter comes to work for him, and gets to know him ala The Raimi films.

Highly doubt Peter will work for this version after what he did. But, he Alex Jones angle probably needs to be walked away from. I don't think the fans like it, and maybe J.K. Simmons as well, according to interviews. Maybe they meet at a diner counter. He doesn't know Peter now and doesn't know that he's talking to Spiderman. But in the conversation, he reveals himself a bit. Sort of like this scene from Breaking Bad:


WHAT IF Mysterio's forged video was intercepted before being broadcasted? Would things be better or worse? Would someone else die instead of May? Would May be killed by someone who is an associate of Kingpin? And would it cause a cascade effect that results in a bad outcome when Doctor Strange encounters a Scarlet Witch corrupted by the Darkhold? More intriguingly, what if a Kang variant has played a role in manipulating events that occurred on-screen since Endgame? All part of a strategic plan to ensure the cards align for his victory. Temporal strategy. Everyone is marching towards Kang's trap, thinking they're in control.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Yeah.
In a way, he can't be defeated in the film .
His plans can be foiled, or stopped, but I think it would be a mistake for Spiderman to have him tossed in jail at the end.
I think he needs to be a persistent threat that Peter can't just defeat, and lock away , with the help of his friends.

He isn't Vulture or Mysterio.

I think of characters like the CEO version of Lex Luthor , Blofeld from the Bond mythology, or Professor Moriarty , who have connections, criminal organizations, and tentacles, so vast, that it isn't easy to take them down in one foul swoop.

To be clear, I'm not using those characters as examples because they're all bald guys. .
View attachment 85475View attachment 85476View attachment 85478
View attachment 85479

It would be interesting for Peter to face an opponent like Fisk ,who isn't so easily taken down , even if Peter knows how dirty he is .
Unlike Mysterio or Vulture,

Spoiler: Potential Spoiler

Kingpin will be Mayor , assuming the rumors are true , and he'll be untouchable in a way that will present a different type of challenge ,than this Peter is used to dealing with.

.

I certainly didn't think you used those guys as examples because they're all bald but speaking of connections to criminal organizations, if I am not mistaken, the Kingpin of the Marvel world is supposed to be the kingpin of the whole fictional world, right? all of the criminal organizations all over the world, answer to him as the big boss?

like if Wilson Fisk was already in power in the 80s, then even Pablo Escobar in the MCU would have been answering to Fisk, right? he's the kingpin of the whole human criminal underworld. I think we got a hint of that seeing that the Yakuza who Ronin was going after, worked for him as well.

anyway as for your spoiler tags, I think that rumor holds water because the synopsis for D'Onofrio's character in Daredevil Born Again states that he's running for mayor. the original episode count was gonna be something like 24 episodes, I dunno with the overhaul what the new count will be but

Spoiler

I think it's a safe bet that the ending of season 1/"season 4" will be bittersweet having shown that Fisk won in the elections.

 

[Davos]

I certainly didn't think you used those guys as examples because they're all bald but speaking of connections to criminal organizations, if I am not mistaken, the Kingpin of the Marvel world is supposed to be the kingpin of the whole fictional world, right? all of the criminal organizations all of the world, answer to him as the big boss?

like if Wilson Fisk was already in power in the 80s, then even Pablo Escobar in the MCU would have been answering to Fisk, right? he's the kingpin of the whole human criminal underworld. I think we got a hint of that seeing that the Yakuza who Ronin was going after, worked for him as well.

anyway as for your spoiler tags, I think that rumor holds water because the synopsis for D'Onofrio's character in Daredevil Born Again states that he's running for mayor. the original episode count was gonna be something like 24 episodes, I dunno with the overhaul what the new count will be but

Spoiler

I think it's a safe bet that the ending of season 1/"season 4" will be bittersweet having shown that Fisk won in the elections.

It's also safe to say that ending you mentioned may occur in the first or second episode. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on David Leitch directing Spiderman 4? And what are your thought on my little "What If?" I posted yesterday?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's also safe to say that ending you mentioned may occur in the first or second episode. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on David Leitch directing Spiderman 4? And what are your thought on my little "What If?" I posted yesterday?

if I am being honest, I am a little confused by it lol. is the "what if" you posted just to make conversation, or are you posing a hypothetical way that everyone finds out about Spider-Man's identity again through a previously unknown interception of Mysterio's broadcast?

as for David Leitch as a director, I have only ever seen Deadpool 2 from his filmography which I liked. I see he also directed Hobbs & Shaw, so I suppose he has a bit of a comedic angle in his action films. I think I'd be fine with it, but one of the things that bothers me about the MCU is when they are overly comedic with their tones.

It's something that Guardians of the Galaxy are known for, but for me personally it can get annoying.

 

[Davos]

if I am being honest, I am a little confused by it lol. is the "what if" you posted just to make conversation, or are you posing a hypothetical way that everyone finds out about Spider-Man's identity again through a previously unknown interception of Mysterio's broadcast?

It was to make conversation and to speculate what would likely occur if Mysterio's revealing broadcast never happened. Good things could happen, but there would be some negative consequences as well.

As for David Leitch as a director, I have only ever seen Deadpool 2 from his filmography which I liked. I see he also directed Hobbs & Shaw, so I suppose he has a bit of a comedic angle in his action films. I think I'd be fine with it, but one of the things that bothers me about the MCU is when they are overly comedic with their tones.

He also did Bullet Train for Sony and The Fall Guy is about to be released and already getting good reviews. And he did second unit on Captain America: Civil War.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It was to make conversation and to speculate what would likely occur if Mysterio's revealing broadcast didn't happen. Not repeating everyone finding out again.

ohhhhhh I see. I think the "what if" you are posing is unlikely to happen in that case. if for nothing else, only because with Jonathan Majors' conviction all plans with Kang within the MCU have to be shifted, if not scrapped. the last rumor I heard regarding him is that Disney is looking to replace the Multiverse saga supervillain with another character, presumably someone even more powerful than Thanos.

 

[Davos]

ohhhhhh I see. I think the "what if" you are posing is unlikely to happen in that case. if for nothing else, only because with Jonathan Majors' conviction all plans with Kang within the MCU have to be shifted, if not scrapped. the last rumor I heard regarding him is that Disney is looking to replace the Multiverse saga supervillain with another character, presumably someone even more powerful than Thanos.

Back to Mysterio's forged video being stopped before being broadcasted in the stinger from FFH. How do you think things would go from there? To clarify, this hypothetical does not involve Kang at all. That is an entirely separate manner.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Back to Mysterio's forged video being stopped before being broadcasted in the stinger from FFH. How do you think things would go from there?

I think things would go very open ended from there. as I said previously in this thread, the only reason the plot of NwH even happens is because of Peter constantly bugging Dr. Strange during the spell which ends up collapsing. If Spider-Man's identity never even gets revealed, then as far as we know there aren't any immediate threats for Spider-Man to face at that point.

Spider-Man 3 could have just been a time jump, it could have even been a Spider-Man in Boston if the trio ends up getting into MIT and then maybe a crossover somehow with Ironheart, since she was going to MIT too iirc.

 

[Davos]

I think things would go very open ended from there. as I said previously in this thread, the only reason the plot of NwH even happens is because of Peter constantly bugging Dr. Strange during the spell which ends up collapsing. If Spider-Man's identity never even gets revealed, then as far as we know there aren't any immediate threats for Spider-Man to face at that point.

Spider-Man 3 could have just been a time jump, it could have even been a Spider-Man in Boston if the trio ends up getting into MIT and then maybe a crossover somehow with Ironheart, since she was going to MIT too iirc.

But Doctor Strange may end up handling the issues with Scarlet Witch and America Chavez much differently then what occurred in MOM, with the likelihood of a much different outcome. And, long-term, Kingpin also has his own plans. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

But Doctor Strange may end up handling the issues with Scarlet Witch and America Chavez much differently then what occurred in MOM, with the likelihood of a much different outcome. And, long-term, Kingpin also has his own plans. What are your thoughts on that?

yeah absolutely Multiverse of Madness would've ended up being different too. But since in this hypothetical scenario Spider-Man wouldn't have needed Dr. Strange's help, then I feel like he wouldn't even be in the conversation when talking about a Spider-Man film.

 

[Davos]

yeah absolutely Multiverse of Madness would've ended up being different too. But since in this hypothetical scenario Spider-Man wouldn't have needed Dr. Strange's help, then I feel like he wouldn't even be in the conversation when talking about a Spider-Man film.

But it is an event in the MCU that is occurring separately from Spiderman's actions, which may have influenced Doctor Strange subconsciously.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

But it is an event in the MCU that is occurring separately from Spiderman's actions, which may have influenced Doctor Strange subconsciously.

which event? Mysterio's doctored footage getting intercepted? but I thought in this "what if" scenario this was the work of someone that's unrelated to the multiverse or the mystic arts. why would Dr. Strange be affected in any way?