No Way Home Spider-Man: No Way Home Spoiler Discussion Thread

[GuestStar2004]

I think with Venom he probably was originally meant to have a bigger part in the film, But for whatever reason they changed their mind and just put him into an end credit scene instead. When you look at the Venom 2 end credit scene and the NHW end credit scene, they do feel a little at odds.

And isn't there something that makes symbiotes a hive mind beyond multiverses?

 

[Dark Raven]

I wouldn't have minded more of a fight between the Spider-Men when they first met. Maybe more between Tobey and Andrew, and then a three-way fight between all 3 on the rooftop similar to the three-way fight between Iron Man, Thor and Cap in the Avengers.

Also it would've been cool if Maguire and Garfield actually saw a pic of Holland's Aunt May and said "THIS was your aunt?"

 

[SpiderDude2006]

I like that Aunt May took the Uncle Ben role in the MCU but it would have been nice to see his gravestone next to hers at the end of the film. Like she’s finally together again with her Ben—don’t even to make it a moment for Peter; he’s fully focused on May’s grave as she’s the emotional relationship we’re invested in as the audience. It’s just something the audience sees.

Well Maybe Ben is alive. If May is the uncle Ben role of the MCU. Maybe Ben is the Aunt May role of the MCU.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well he wouldn't remember Peter now anyway.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well he wouldn't remember Peter now anyway.

And Peter didn't remember him before either.

 

[venom892]

Uncle Ben coming back now would be as bad as their attempt to bring back Richard Parker in ASM2. We're past it now, there is no fixing it. In the MCU, Tony Stark and May taught him about responsibility. We just got to accept that.

 

[Shikamaru]

Uncle Ben coming back now would be as bad as their attempt to bring back Richard Parker in ASM2. We're past it now, there is no fixing it. In the MCU, Tony Stark and May taught him about responsibility. We just got to accept that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the next film retcons Uncle Ben as having always been there. Neither Aunt May nor Tony work as a long-term replacement for Uncle Ben because they each had some agency in their deaths, whereas Uncle Ben had no agency in how he was murdered.

The thing that sucks the most about MCU Spider-Man is also the thing that makes me most optimistic about it: the writers have no convictions. Spider-Man in these films changes from scene to scene based on what they need him to be. He kicks ash in Civil War because he is Spider-Man The Action Figure there, but in Homecoming he's getting his ash kicked by Vulture. In the bank robbery scene in Homecoming he's your quippy Spider-Man, but for the rest of the series he's in "Aw shucks" mode. In the first five films he is a blind admirer of Iron Man because that's what the scripts demand him to be, in NWH he has no problem disagreeing with Strange. In Civil War he hints at his guilt over Ben, in NWH Uncle Ben was never there. Need I go on? Changes like these are always possible with MCU Spider-Man.

 

[henzINNIT]

The way Uncle Ben was handled across the franchise is perplexing to me. It was so deftly handled in Civil War. We understood perfectly in just a couple lines. He didn't need a massive presence after that, but moving forward it felt like there was a rule not to reference him at all. It wouldn't have been so bad if the films didn't constantly put Peter in comparable relationships. Giving May the speech (and death) in NWH was like a cheap retcon to me, a band-aid over Peter's lack of growth, a last ditch effort to do something with May, and some easy drama to give the impression of stakes.

MCU Spider-Man shows some of the weaknesses of the shared universe in my opinion. Slotting in-between the big event stories has routinely botched the trajectory of his solo adventures.

 

[Kev4000]

I think with Venom he probably was originally meant to have a bigger part in the film, But for whatever reason they changed their mind and just put him into an end credit scene instead. When you look at the Venom 2 end credit scene and the NHW end credit scene, they do feel a little at odds.

And isn't there something that makes symbiotes a hive mind beyond multiverses?

With the nonsense post credits of Morbius, I am not sure about this. Just another cheap bait for the audience to go to the Sony movie. Lets be honest, noone talked about the movie itself here as well. Everyone was just interested in the after credit scene.

 

[Shikamaru]

MCU Spider-Man shows some of the weaknesses of the shared universe in my opinion. Slotting in-between the big event stories has routinely botched the trajectory of his solo adventures.

IMO, the shared universe itself isn't the problem. Spider-Man existed for many decades in a shared universe without a problem, and still does (i.e. Insomniac Spider-Man).

I see MCU Spider-Man as by-product of two things:

1. The "everything has to be connected" logic of the MCU. This worked fine with the Avengers who are all each other's supporting cast, but it starts to break apart with Spider-Man.

2. The nature of the Disney-Sony deal. Feige never treated other characters this way, nor did Sony ever portray Spider-Man like this. Thus the decisions they took must have arose out of restrictions on both sides.

 

[GuestStar2004]

With the nonsense post credits of Morbius, I am not sure about this. Just another cheap bait for the audience to go to the Sony movie. Lets be honest, noone talked about the movie itself here as well. Everyone was just interested in the after credit scene.

Well the writers have talked about how Venom was gonna be a part of NWH early on. and i do believe that. and i think Sony will regret now having Venom be a bigger part of the movie.

 

[GuestStar2004]

2. The nature of the Disney-Sony deal. Feige never treated other characters this way, nor did Sony ever portray Spider-Man like this. Thus the decisions they took must have arose out of restrictions on both sides.

See this is what i think people hope is the idea, when really i think its by Fiege's choice not to rehash ideas already put to screen. And i think he will do the same with X-Men and F4.

He has straight up said there was no plans to use redo or recast previous villains from past spider-man movies like Ock or Green goblin.

There is likely no reason they couldn't use or reference Uncle Ben beyond we didn't want to do Uncle Ben again. Doesn't matter whether its the MCU, this fantasy world where everything is so comic accurate. dot dot dot. dot dot dot.

 

[Shikamaru]

See this is what i think people hope is the idea, when really i think its by Fiege's choice not to rehash ideas already put to screen. And i think he will do the same with X-Men and F4.

He has straight up said there was no plans to use redo or recast previous villains from past spider-man movies like Ock or Green goblin.

There is no reason they couldn't use Uncle Ben beyond we didn't want to do Uncle Ben again. Doesn't matter whether its the MCU, this fantasy world where everything is so comic accurate. dot dot dot. dot dot dot.

Part of the problem is that both reboots came premature and were reactionary to their predecessor. They were just too self-conscious about what came before and how to shadowbox it. And in the process, they made some questionable choices.

It's a pretty self-defeating mindset. The Batman reboots never had that mindset, and look how successful and unique each version was. Imagine if Nolan thought about Nicholson's Joker the way Feige thinks of Dafoe's Goblin, or if Reeves thought about Carrey's Riddler in that way. Those movies wouldn't have turned out as good as they did.

It doesn't watch like they wanted to retell the origin without Uncle Ben. NWH watches more like the franchise making up for a hole in the character.

 

[henzINNIT]

Part of the problem is that both reboots came premature and were reactionary to their predecessor. They were just too self-conscious about what came before and how to shadowbox it. And in the process, they made some questionable choices.

It's a pretty self-defeating mindset. The Batman reboots never had that mindset, and look how successful and unique each version was. Imagine if Nolan thought about Nicholson's Joker the way Feige thinks of Dafoe's Goblin, or if Reeves thought about Carrey's Riddler in that way. Those movies wouldn't have turned out as good as they did.

It doesn't watch like they wanted to retell the origin without Uncle Ben. NWH watches more like the franchise making up for a hole in the character.

Agreed with this. As fun as it was seeing familiar faces in No Way Home, I can't help but feel like Holland's Spidey has been seriously knee-capped by the studio's reluctance to revisit major characters. I think it makes perfect sense to use fresh villains (Vulture, Mysterio) from Spidey's rogues gallery to avoid retreading too much ground, but to never get around to doing the Goblin or Ock properly seems wasteful. Same goes for the supporting characters.

It makes me wonder just what form the X-Men will take under Marvel. They're my favourite characters, and I liked the Fox franchise (not all of them obviously), but I really don't want to see that history take several important characters off the table.

 

[Shikamaru]

Agreed with this. As fun as it was seeing familiar faces in No Way Home, I can't help but feel like Holland's Spidey has been seriously knee-capped by the studio's reluctance to revisit major characters. I think it makes perfect sense to use fresh villains (Vulture, Mysterio) from Spidey's rogues gallery to avoid retreading too much ground, but to never get around to doing the Goblin or Ock properly seems wasteful. Same goes for the supporting characters.

It makes me wonder just what form the X-Men will take under Marvel. They're my favourite characters, and I liked the Fox franchise (not all of them obviously), but I really don't want to see that history take several important characters off the table.

Especially since any MCU version of Goblin and Ock would have one major advantage: the Raimi versions were sympathetic and not inherently sane & evil like the 616 versions. There is no "cure" for the 616 versions. The MCU could have taken advantage of that to give us a new take to co-exist with the Raimi versions.

 

[Vampfox]

One thing I wasn't a fan of at all was how they treated Ock here. Especially the first fight on the bridge, it was just over the top or something. When Peter could just override the arms too? Silly

It makes sense technology wise. Doc Ock's arms are a big deal in the Sam Raimi universe which technology wise is closer to real world technology than the MCU. From the MCU's point of view Doc Ock's arms arn't really anything special.

 

[SpiderDude2006]

At this point, if they somehow they do bring in the Osborns, just have MCU Norman not become Green Goblin and instead go the corrupt politician/Dark Reign route with him.

- Norman as the MCU green goblin can work, but they must do it well.

- Imagine the scene, Spider-Man meet the Norman Osborn of the MCU, thanks his meet his Raimi variant he tries to avoid that he becomes the green goblin.

- However, he ends up failing but to his surprise instead of being the man that he fight against with ...

- Norman Osborn ends up transforming into the Green Goblin with a style similar to Ultimate Spider-Man.

- It can be both the design of the comic or the one from the animated series, doesn't matter.

- It can even be the design of Into Spider Verse.

- That would make the green goblin of the MCU different from the rest and that he does not feel so repeated.

- Since I would love to see the Ultimate Green Goblin in Live Action more than Miles Morales.

- Thanks for read.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

I have a problem. It did not live up to the hype for me. I'm stressed out and sad. So much things, so little time. This should have been a 2 part movie like Infinity War and Endgame. Things were moving to fast, which was one of my biggest fears for this movie, and we did not get to spent much time with the villains and other Spiderman. Characters don't have much depth because there just isn't time to build one. I f****** loved Green Goblin in this one, but his screen time is just so short as of the other villains. To much humor at the wrong time. And the way Tobey and Andrew showed up was unpleasing. Ned is opening portals all of a sudden... Apsolutelly loved Andrew but he and Tobey were laking depth also as all the characters. They were joking to much...
I think all of this could be fixed if this movie was a 2 parter as I said in the beginning. All in all, this isn't my review of the movie because that would just be toooo long. Just expresing my frustration because I didn't enjoy this movie as much as I thinked I would and did not get emotional. LONG STORY SHORT, I REALLY WANTED TO LOVE THIS MOVIE, BUT IN THE END IT WAS JUST "OK" FOR ME. Is there anyone feeling the same as I do? Please, I really need u now!

Edit: I will go watch it for the 2nd time in 3D and maybe with the 2nd watching it will get better. I hope so.

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS MOVIE IS THAT IS RUSHED AND THERE IS SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH TIME TO EXPLORE CHARACTERS AND THEIR ACTIONS IN DEPTH. MOVIE WITH THIS MUCH CHARACTERS (VILLAINS IN THIS CASE) CAN'T BE DONE IN 2.5 HOURS. IT JUST CAN'T. SHOULD HAVE BEEN A 2 PART MOVIE.

I'm sorry,
I know I'm repeating myself but when you are so frustrated, you can't compress emotions...

You’re not alone, I had similar issues with the film. Tobey in particular never felt like the Raimi version of Peter. Idk if that comes down to performance or writing. The rest of the movie didn’t really work for me either and unfortunately it just cemented that I’m not a fan of Holland’s Spider-Man. He’s such an annoying character especially in this film. It’s hard to feel sorry for him when everything going wrong is entirely his fault.