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State of Emergency: Baltimore Edition

The thing is a cop should never use deadly force against someone that is running AWAY from them and is unarmed. Use a taser or something to bring them down. Don't just shoot them because they ran.

Yeah I don't personally know any officers who shoot people because they ran away from them. And the officer in South Carolina who did that is now fired and charged with murder... so there you go...

Secondly, a case out of Baltimore (ironically enough), already involved an officer tasing a suspect who ran away on foot. Due to the tasing, the suspect fell and hurt himself on the pavement. The higher courts of Maryland then ruled that officers can't taser suspects fleeing on foot because of the potential the suspect might fall down/go boom/get a boo-boo... also, it constitutes an arrest if you taser a suspect so you shouldn't taser someone just for seeing you and running away.

David Reid v. State of Maryland, Court of Appeals of Maryland August 24 2012

So if you, ShadowBoxer, were a cop and someone ran on you because they saw you, looked freaked out, and took off running and due to this you taser the suspect running away... guess what... you're in trouble.

Hope you have a Plan B career in mind and a lot of money for a good attorney because SA Marilyn Mosby is coming after you........
 
Secondly, a case out of Baltimore (ironically enough), already involved an officer tasing a suspect who ran away on foot. Due to the tasing, the suspect fell and hurt himself on the pavement. The higher courts of Maryland then ruled that officers can't taser suspects fleeing on foot because of the potential the suspect might fall down/go boom/get a boo-boo... also, it constitutes an arrest if you taser a suspect so you shouldn't taser someone just for seeing you and running away.

Or hit their head and get seriously injured. Tasers are officially referred to as "less-than-lethal" instead of "non-lethal" for a reason. I find a law enforcement officer being as callous and dismissive about potentially seriously injuring someone as you are to be deeply disturbing.
 
Or hit their head and get seriously injured. Tasers are officially referred to as "less-than-lethal" instead of "non-lethal" for a reason. I find a law enforcement officer being as callous and dismissive about potentially seriously injuring someone as you are to be deeply disturbing.

Don't be so serious. I'm not writing college thesis papers here, I'm posting on a message board about comic book superheroes. Sheesh.

I've tasered only a couple people in 5 years of policing and I was kind and courteous to everyone once they got the cuffs on them... then they got a free trip to the hospital...and doctors removed the taser prongs...

I've also been tasered (full 5 second ride with prongs taped to my body) twice in my career. It hurts. But it's not a big deal. The pain goes away instantly as soon as the 5 seconds is over.

I think a lot of people and the media over-hype the act of being tasered. It's just 5 seconds of the worst cramp you ever felt and then its over.

Getting peppersprayed is worse I think.
 
Don't be so serious. I'm not writing college thesis papers here, I'm posting on a message board about comic book superheroes. Sheesh.

I've tasered only a couple people in 5 years of policing and I was kind and courteous to everyone once they got the cuffs on them... then they got a free trip to the hospital...and doctors removed the taser prongs...

I've also been tasered (full 5 second ride with prongs taped to my body) twice in my career. It hurts. But it's not a big deal. The pain goes away instantly as soon as the 5 seconds is over.

I think a lot of people and the media over-hype the act of being tasered. It's just 5 seconds of the worst cramp you ever felt and then its over.

Getting peppersprayed is worse I think.

But you're clearly dismissive of the concerns people have about individuals falling over and seriously injuring themselves if they're tasered while running.
 
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If it is not determined whether a suspect has a gun or not, they could run a distance away and turn around shooting the cop dead. I'm sure some cops are aware of this in deciding what type of force to use for a particular situation.
 
Question: sometimes I feel like you are proposing no consequences for someone that commits a crime and instead of complying - chooses a lawless route of some kind. If they run say, "Aw shucks" and waive. :shrug:
 
But you're clearly dismissive of the concerns people have about individuals falling over and seriously injuring themselves if they're tasered while running.

I've had to pull my service weapon numerous times during my career (though thankfully never had to fire it) and I have tased a number of people as well. And I can say you are 100% correct that the resulting fall, scrapes, pain and other associated consequences of that tasing are absolutely not my primary concern. My safety and getting the individual to stop doing what it was they were doing that caused them to get tased in the first place is my first and at the time, only concern.

Perhaps in this fairytale land you live in, LEO's and suspects can mutually work out their differences and agree on what use of force the cop is going to use but this is the real world and I don't have the time to consider every conceivable thing that could occur before taking action.

It appears you are the one who is clearly dismissive of the concerns people have...only for you, it's dismissive of the concerns for people actually enforcing the law, instead of those breaking it.
 
The differences will never be civil because 1. The person stopped is a criminal. 2. The cop wants to detain them. 3. The end result is an arrest, and the criminal will try to avoid it.

Resulting from this is running, attacking, evading, avoidance of arrest. Do you think if the cop politely asks a second time "Would you mind coming back over so I can arrest you?" that the defiant criminal will stop being a buffoon and comply?
 
Thanks for making a statement that has literally nothing to do with what I said.

What I wrote in that post has nothing to do with who's fault it is. Fault is irrelevant. It was about what has been proven to be most effective in lowering crime rates. Nothing else matters.

You know what I personally think will be affective in reducing crime. Not welfare, but good paying jobs! Productive people who bring home a paycheck that is hard earned tends to have more pride then those that live off of others. They also tend to be too busy to get into drugs and other troubles. In this stance, I think one of the biggest problems this country has is not so much welfare, but the NAFTA act. That is when big businesses used it as a loop hole to move their corps out of the USA into lower waged countries like Mexico and China. And along with that, the jobs and taxes. It doesn't help either that most cities and states make it very difficult for other people to try and start up businesses in the USA. Sometimes I wonder if those in charge even want this country to be economically independent. A friend of mine wanted to start a shoe company and make the shoes here in the USA. The permits department refused to allow her to set up a factory, stating that they can only allow stores to be set up, but she would have to get together with a foreign relations manager and set up a factory out of the states. He suggested China,:whatever:
 
You need education for good paying jobs. To get good education, you need the funds to hire good teachers. You get good education, you get more people coming back to the area. You get more skilled individuals with better education, you get better paying jobs.
 
You need education for good paying jobs. To get good education, you need the funds to hire good teachers. You get good education, you get more people coming back to the area. You get more skilled individuals with better education, you get better paying jobs.

Actually ALL Title 1 schools do get more money to pay their teachers more. So, it's not necessarily spending more money, but more spending it efficiently and effectively....something government doesn't do well. HOWEVER, after 5 years teachers are payed far less than others with the same amount of college. That is why many will go into teaching because the starting pay is very similar to other entry jobs for college graduates, but after 5 years the other jobs sky rocket ahead of teachers. So, as a teacher in a fully Title 1 school, I would appreciate better pay. ;)
 
The story has subsided quite a bit in the media. I wonder if the race of the cops has something to do with this? Knowing half of them are black maybe takes the wind out of the sails for media.
 
The story has subsided quite a bit in the media. I wonder if the race of the cops has something to do with this? Knowing half of them are black maybe takes the wind out of the sails for media.

More than likely! They can't jump on that very narrowminded bandwagon anymore! They also don't seem to bring up too much how we now have good cops just getting executed because they are cops. All this, in thanks, to the media! So now, it looks like the agendas seem to be, get rid of the guns, get rid of the cops, and now get rid of the media because they are causing more problems than helping.
 
You need education for good paying jobs. To get good education, you need the funds to hire good teachers. You get good education, you get more people coming back to the area. You get more skilled individuals with better education, you get better paying jobs.

Can't have schools without poeple already having jobs and paying into the tax system to fund said schools. That's why I said that NAFTA took out the industrial backbone out of the states, but the taxes that corporations and the people who would have been employed would have had to pay. But, at the same time, one has to step back in awe at the fat cats on Capitol Hill. Perhaps if they allocated the taxes towards more schooling, and less raises for the politicians and contracts for over paid civilian defense corps, then maybe we could get somewhere.
 
The story has subsided quite a bit in the media. I wonder if the race of the cops has something to do with this? Knowing half of them are black maybe takes the wind out of the sails for media.

And the fact that the knife is probably illegal and the State's Prosecutor has an even weaker case than before.

Mind you, doesn't really matter in the whole scenario of this, it is still very probable that the police were zeroing in on this guy for whatever they could find...not sure why, but doesn't seem they liked him very much. THAT IS what needs to be looked at, not because it is illegal, but its just not good in building a strong relationship between the police and the neighborhoods they patrol.

Once again, I go back to the fact that this prosecutor has TOTALLY SCREWED this case, and though her first point was to stop the rioting she has probably in fact made the next round of riots after her case falls through and the cops are acquitted leading to even worse riots than before.
 
Anyone know if the claims that the mayor told cops to stand down during rioting are true?
 
Freddie Gray case: Judge acquits Lt. Brian Rice of all charges
Prosecutors in Baltimore have failed for the fourth time to secure a conviction in the Freddie Gray case, with Circuit Judge Barry G. Williams acquitting Lt. Brian Rice of all charges related to Gray's arrest and death.

Williams cleared Rice, 42, of involuntary manslaughter, reckless endangerment and misconduct in office in a downtown Baltimore courtroom on Monday morning. The judge had dismissed a second-degree assault charge at the trial's midpoint, and prosecutors dropped a second misconduct charge at the start.

Rice selected a bench trial rather than a jury trial, putting his legal fate in Williams' hands. He was the fourth of six officers charged in the case to go to trial.Williams said prosecutors had failed to meet their burden of proving the charges beyond a reasonable doubt, instead asking the court to rely on "presumptions or assumptions" — something it cannot do. He said the court "cannot be swayed by sympathy, prejudice or public opinion."

Based on the law, he said, the prosecution failed to prove the elements of the crimes.

The prosecution did not show Rice acted in a "grossly negligent manner," required of manslaughter, he said. It did not show that Rice acted in an unreasonable way or ignored the substantial risk in placing Gray in a police van without a seat belt, required for reckless endangerment, he said. And, it did not show Rice acted "corruptly," which is required for misconduct in office, he said.Prosecutors alleged Rice, the highest-ranking officer of the six charged, had caused Gray's death by failing to secure him in a seat belt in the back of the police transport van in which he suffered severe spinal cord injuries last year. Gray, 25, died a week after his arrest. His death sparked widespread protests against police brutality.

Williams said a "mistake" or an "error in judgment" by Rice was not enough to prove the crimes alleged. He also noted the difference between criminal negligence and civil negligence, an apparent nod to the fact that the city previously negotiated with Gray's family attorney, William H. "Billy" Murphy, on the civil side and agreed to pay the family $6.4 million."Here, the failure to seatbelt may have been a mistake or it may have been bad judgement, but without showing more than has been presented to the court concerning the failure to seatbelt and the surrounding circumstances, the state has failed to meet its burden to show that the actions of the defendant rose above mere civil negligence," Williams said.

Murphy was not present in court, and could not immediately be reached for comment. Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby, who announced the charges against the six officers in a high-profile news conference in May 2015, also did not attend.

Rice appeared calm, staring forward and showing no emotion as Williams announced each not-guilty ruling. At the adjacent table, Chief Deputy State's Attorney Michael Schatzow and Deputy State's Attorney Janice Bledsoe, who prosecuted the case, shook their heads. Schatzow sat with his chin resting on his hand for much of the Williams' comments. At one point, Bledsoe leaned back in her chair and rolled her head around.

When Williams adjourned the proceedings, Rice stood and shook hands with his attorneys and Gene Ryan, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 3, the union that represents officers in Baltimore. With his acquittal, Rice will have his pay restored by the Baltimore Police Department and he will be subject to an internal administrative review of his actions.

Rice's family members, who were present for the ruling, declined a request for comment.

Officer Caesar Goodson, the van driver who was acquitted last month of second-degree depraved heart murder and other charges in Gray's death, smiled and shook Rice's hand as the courtroom emptied. The city last week authorized a payment of $87,000 to Goodson as backpay for the time he spent without a paycheck. Rice is likely to also receive back pay.

Officer Edward Nero, who also was acquitted of all charges in May, greeted Rice and his supporters at the front of the room following the ruling.

Officer Garrett Miller was also in the courtroom, sitting with Nero and Goodson. Miller is scheduled to go to trial next, on July 27.

Officer William Porter, who had a mistrial in December after a 12-member jury could not reach a consensus on any of the charges against him, was not present, though his attorney was in the room. Also not in the room was Sgt. Alicia White, who is scheduled to go to trial Oct. 13. All of the officers have pleaded not guilty.

Rice's acquittal is likely to renew calls for Mosby to drop the remaining charges in the case, including from the union that represents the city's rank-and-file officers.

After the acquittal of Goodson, Ryan said that it was "time to put this sad chapter behind us." He said ongoing prosecution of the cases would hinder the ability of police in Baltimore to do their jobs. The FOP said Ryan would address Rice's acquittal Monday afternoon.

Prosecutors and defense attorneys in the case are barred by a gag order from commenting, as is Rice. Williams also does not comment on cases outside of court.

Bledsoe, during closing arguments in the case, said Gray's death "cannot be blamed on poor judgment or error," and that Rice's intentional actions "put together formed a chain" of events that caused Gray's death.

Rice's defense attorneys said his actions were reasonable given the volatility of the scene at the time, Gray's combativeness and the danger associated with placing a detainee in a seat belt in the close quarters of the van's rear compartment.

"Everything about it was professional, correct," said Michael Belsky, Rice's attorney.

Williams had seemed skeptical of the basis of the charges during closing arguments Thursday, asking Schatzow whether the prosecution believed that the failure to seat belt Gray was in itself a crime.

"The simple fact he didn't do it means he's guilty of these crimes?" Williams asked.

Schatzow said it did, based on the circumstances. Belsky said the prosecution's theory, if upheld by the judge, would set a "very dangerous precedent."

On Monday, Williams noted that both sides had argued about the circumstances in which Rice made his decision not to secure Gray in a seat belt at the intersection of N. Mount and Baker streets. He said both sides wanted him to view the atmosphere — the prosecution said the officers were not being threatened, the defense said it was a volatile scene — in a "vacuum," but that he had to view it in context.

He quoted individuals heard yelling at the officers on a cellphone video of the scene, and said it was clear to him that "emotions and tensions ran high" that day. He said it was "a matter of perspective" as to the threat and need for officers to leave the scene quickly, and that Rice's perspective was important.

He quoted one person as saying, "Smoke this dumb—," and another as saying, "I'll bust all three of them."

"It is clear that law enforcement and citizens alike were yelling and upset. It is clear that information did not flow efficiently between law enforcement and citizens," Williams said. "While there are different views as to what happened, and a clear disagreement on the number of people at any given time, none of the individuals who testified indicated that it was a quiet time at Mount and Baker while Mr. Gray was being placed into the wagon."

Williams also found that prosecutors had failed to establish Rice's level of training or his awareness of a policy put in place days before Gray's arrest that removed an officers' discretion in deciding whether to secure a detainee in a seat belt — instead requiring it. He noted that part of that failure may have stemmed from his decision to block some evidence of Rice's training based on a discovery violation by the prosecution. But he said the violation of police general orders is not a crime.

"Case law makes it abundantly clear that a violation of a general order may be an indicator that there is a violation of criminal law, but failing to seatbelt a detainee in a transport wagon is not inherently criminal conduct," he said.

Like in Nero and Goodson's trials, Williams delivered his ruling by reading from prepared remarks from the bench. He took the charges one by one, outlining the elements required for each and his reasoning for finding Rice not guilty.

Afterward, David Jaros, a University of Baltimore law professor who watched the trial, said prosecutors are "going to have to step back and reassess their evidence" against the officers still facing charges.

Douglas Colbert, a University of Maryland law professor who also observed the proceedings, said Williams obviously "wanted more direct evidence" to convict Rice. Still, he praised Mosby for bringing the case, which he saw as "another step in making sure no one else suffers the fate" that Gray faced.

"From this point forward," he said, "the police are certainly put on notice that they must provide care and safeguard prisoners."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-rice-verdict-20160718-story.html
 

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