State your unpopular Batman related opinion

[SuperFerret]

Frankly, I'm worried about it due to the distaste for classic Superman that Man of Steel apparently held. Combining that with the rampant Batman obsession DC/WB has just doesn't seem like it's going to be anything but "Batman is cool: the movie".

I'm going to predict that The Flash/Arrow crossover episodes are a better on-screen representation of the World's Finest than BvS: DoJ will be. We're probably not going to be treated with their encounter ending with a draw, and we sure as hell aren't going to have Superman call Batman on his BS the way Barry called Oliver out. It's saddening that what should be the biggest comic movie ever is filling so many longtime fans with a distinct sense of dread.

 

[Naked Shia]

its thoutgh (by many) that so many are not that many though.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Batman is Kewl: The Movie? I like that title...here's a clip from it:

Spoiler

Bare-chested Superman: "I love Batman, he's so ***** cool, man! He gets all the hot girls...like Wonder Woman. I wish I could be him! "

Pulitzer prize winning Lois Lane: "I know. He's almost as tough as Chuck Norris. Do you think you can beat Chuck Norris, Bruce Wa...I mean Batman?"

Batman: "Chuck Norris? Uhm..."

Superman: "Of course he can! *takes sip of Budweiser bottle* Hey, what's wrong, Bruce...you're as white as a Ridley Scott movie"

Batman: "Oh, haha...it's nothing. I'm just thinking about my dead parents. Good bye! *jumps off the rooftop in slow motion, strikes the famous DKR pose*"

Lois Lane: "Remember our date!

End credits scene (spoiler):

Policeman: "Sir, we just found out something disturbing about Batman..."

Gordon: "Disturbing? What are you talking about?"

Policeman: "We found this in the batcave..."

(The policeman picks up a cardboard box. Gordon opens it up, slowly)

Gordon: "Oh...my.."

(He throws the box on the floor. Something falls out of it. It's a hairy suit made of human skin...it's Chuck Norris!)

 

[Talkie]

The concept does suck.. I just framed my comment wrong. It should read "not just because of Snyder, Afleck...etc"

Basically the gist is this: the concept is difficult to translate to screen... It's an uphill battle and because of that it sucks... Furthermore (in other threads) I've highlighted Snyder's shortcomings (all flash and effects, poor character development)... I might have been a lot more confident with a Joss Whendon take on this...

Another unpopular opinion I have: I will say that Afleck is not a bad choice for Batman... And actually Afleck is the best thing this film has going for it because he's a legitimate story teller... Acting chops aren't a big deal in superhero films... Although he's no pushover... Further more, his influence might serve as a balance against Snyder's overboard visual aesthetics focus... I hope Batfleck was able to give some input into the directing process for this film for everyone's sake. He might be a saving grace..

 

[SuperFerret]

What's difficult or bad about the concept of a Batman/Superman movie?

 

[georgec]

What's difficult or bad about the concept of a Batman/Superman movie?

 

[SuperFerret]

Hmm... you make your point so eloquently that I have to accept it.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Nothing wrong with the idea in itself. I just doubt that Rob Liefeld...I mean Zack Snyder is the right man for the job.

Batman v Superman is the first movie featuring Batman and/or Superman that I don't look forward to at all.

 

[georgec]

In case it wasn't clear, me posting that gif was a joke.

I'm on the flipside that I really don't see any reason to not be moderately excited for this film at this point. The issues with Man of Steel mostly stem from the script, and BvS brought in a better writer. I think Snyder can deliver the goods provided he has the right material.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

New here, but co-sign on a lot of things Talkie, and PlasticManFan said.

- There is no definitive take on the character. I can appreciate all different takes on Batman.

- BTAS is great, one of the best cartoons ever, but is overrated and still a watered down childish take on the mythos.

- Conroy is the most overrated Batman voice. Like Talkie he said, sounds too refined. Not guttural, or Eastwood like Bale or interesting and spooky enough like Keaton. Nothing unique. By the numbers, and boring. Keaton, and Bale had the balls to do something different.

- Bale's Batman voice is underrated. It only got hate in retrospect the second the popularity of TDK blew up, and there was nothing else to legitmately criticize about that instant classic. His take makes sense, and besides a few questionable scenes it's fantastic the energy he channels with it.

Watching the screen test for other actors who speak normally or just deep like say Conroy, it sounds way more foolish. 'The Batman' is an act in TDK trilogy. A facade, a cypher for Bruce's pent up anger, and aggression. He's meant to portray this vigilante as a mythic, beast like creature. It works.

- TDK trilogy in general is getting underrated quickly, and forgotten in just a short amount of time. The disdain it gets for people to cash out to a new vision so quickly is alarming. Or just nitpicked by fans of the whimsical, flavor of the month Marvel Studios stuff.

- Synder's Bat-Suit is the best on screen, or otherwise. Perfect balance of functionality, and theatricality. Happy medium of Nolan's Bat-Suits, and Burton's B89 suit.

- Snyder's Batmobile is the best on screen, or otherwise. Perfect balance of Nolan's militaristic assault vehicle, and Burton's sexy romanticized jet car.

- I think the "look at me" 2 Bat 2 Furious bat wings, and bat logo rims Burton / Shumacher / Comic Book batmobiles is too much, and kind of corny. Prefer the Tumbler, DKR, Monster Men, BTAS, and BvS batmobiles.

- I like Batman's gadgetry being advanced, futuristic but not decked out in Bat themed fluff.

- Affleck was actually a great underrated casting choice. He looks just like comic Wayne. Great chin, especially when rocking stubble for a DKR style Batman. He's proven to play a great playboy, cocky, yet a social animal ... like in real life. And as Batman he's huge, and menacing physically.

- Keaton's motivated performance as Batman in '89 is amazing, and his Returns performance is phoned in ... visibly.

- The story arc not focusing on Wayne in Batman '89, and making the character mysterious actually IMO made him the most frightening take on the character in the series on film. Very 1939 Bob Kane-esque. Mostly due to appearing psychotic with his eyes, and being silent dialogue wise.

- I like TDKR, it definitely gets better with time and repeat viewings but there are scenes in the film that are sloppy ... and I feel like Nolan may have been spent on the material. It could've been possible that TDK was a better drop the mic moment for him to avoid the inevitable polarizing reaction to having to follow such a great film.

- The Dark Knight is by far the best film in the Batman franchise.

- Batman Begins is by far the best Wayne / Batman centric film in the Batman franchise.

- Batman '89 is the most iconic film in the Batman franchise. Also best marketing.

- The Batman in '89 is the best cinematic take on the in costume persona in the Batman franchise. So far ... we'll see what Synder does.

- Batman Returns is just as over the top and stupid as Shumacher's garbage. Held up by an amazing performance from Michelle Pfeiffer. Possibly the most un-Batman film in the series.

In that sense, in an alternate universe, I would have preferred Liev Schreiber as Bruce/Bats. Size wise, voice wise and acting chops he fits the role.

Agreed.

Sure DC fans will snicker and giggle to finally see it happen but conceptually it's a stupid cop-out to try to create a marvel-like film universe.

Co-sign, and shared universe ... particularly as expansive as Marvel's actually creates an infinite number of TRUCK sized plot holes that people don't care to admit.

But this ...

Batman and Superman together on screen will SUCK. Not because of Zach Snyder, Afleck or anything like that... But because the concept itself is moronic.

Don't agree. We have to see how it shakes out. Anything can work, it's all in execution. Burton and Nolan's Batman definitely don't lend themselves to sharing a screen with Superman though.

And though he has utilized cape fabric that stiffens to allow him to glide - has Batman ever in his history developed any kind of regular flying device? Other than the planes and copters - I am talking about advanced glider technology or something similar. To me, this would also make sense as he is BAT man and ought to use this as a means to get around Gotham.

Co-sign. He had something similar, a bat wing glider in Monster Men in the background, and it looks like it had a jet engine on it as well.

 

[TX85]

-I overall prefer the Burton films over TDK trilogy. The trilogy are the best films in the franchise but they aren't too Batman to me. Burton got a lot of things wrong and especially with Returns but what he did right and more Batman to me was the fantasy element that made it feel like a comic book movie than TDK's overall grounded realism.

Burton's Gotham,Bat Suits,Bat Mobile,Tone and Action just seemed more like dark Batman comics than TDK trilogy does.

-I also actually think Batman Forever(especially) and Batman&Robin are underrated,Forever does feel like Batman but more if it was based on a Batman animated show or on the mythology like the Arkham Games or an"else-worlds"comic mini series. B&R is like an adaption on the silver era comics or Batman 1960's TV show&movie

 

[Keehar]

New here, but co-sign on a lot of things Talkie, and PlasticManFan said.

- There is no definitive take on the character. I can appreciate all different takes on Batman.

- BTAS is great, one of the best cartoons ever, but is overrated and still a watered down childish take on the mythos.

- Conroy is the most overrated Batman voice. Like Talkie he said, sounds too refined. Not guttural, or Eastwood like Bale or interesting and spooky enough like Keaton. Nothing unique. By the numbers, and boring. Keaton, and Bale had the balls to do something different.

- Bale's Batman voice is underrated. It only got hate in retrospect the second the popularity of TDK blew up, and there was nothing else to legitmately criticize about that instant classic. His take makes sense, and besides a few questionable scenes it's fantastic the energy he channels with it.

Watching the screen test for other actors who speak normally or just deep like say Conroy, it sounds way more foolish. 'The Batman' is an act in TDK trilogy. A facade, a cypher for Bruce's pent up anger, and aggression. He's meant to portray this vigilante as a mythic, beast like creature. It works.

- TDK trilogy in general is getting underrated quickly, and forgotten in just a short amount of time. The disdain it gets for people to cash out to a new vision so quickly is alarming. Or just nitpicked by fans of the whimsical, flavor of the month Marvel Studios stuff.

- Synder's Bat-Suit is the best on screen, or otherwise. Perfect balance of functionality, and theatricality. Happy medium of Nolan's Bat-Suits, and Burton's B89 suit.

- Snyder's Batmobile is the best on screen, or otherwise. Perfect balance of Nolan's militaristic assault vehicle, and Burton's sexy romanticized jet car.

- I think the "look at me" 2 Bat 2 Furious bat wings, and bat logo rims Burton / Shumacher / Comic Book batmobiles is too much, and kind of corny. Prefer the Tumbler, DKR, Monster Men, BTAS, and BvS batmobiles.

- I like Batman's gadgetry being advanced, futuristic but not decked out in Bat themed fluff.

- Affleck was actually a great underrated casting choice. He looks just like comic Wayne. Great chin, especially when rocking stubble for a DKR style Batman. He's proven to play a great playboy, cocky, yet a social animal ... like in real life. And as Batman he's huge, and menacing physically.

- Keaton's Returns performance is phoned in ... visibly.

- I like TDKR, it definitely gets better with time and repeat viewings but there are scenes in the film that are sloppy ... and I feel like Nolan may have been spent on the material. It could've been possible that TDK was a better drop the mic moment for him to avoid the inevitable polarizing reaction to having to follow such a great film.

- The Dark Knight is by far the best film in the Batman franchise.

- Batman Begins is by far the best Wayne / Batman centric film in the Batman franchise.

- Batman Returns is just as over the top and stupid as Shumacher's garbage. Held up by an amazing performance from Michelle Pfeiffer. Possibly the most un-Batman film in the series.

I like you. The only thing I don't share your opinion on is your fondness for the crap that is Batman 1989.

 

[TX85]

-My favorite Bat suits are..

Year One
Earth One
Batman Beyond
Batman Returns

-I love both,the black bat and yellow symbols but I have to go with the oval a bit more.

-Batman:The Brave and The Bold is underrated and a ton of fun.

-Batman Forever and Batman&Robin had a great balance of dark with humor but the executions were off.

-I prefer dark Batman but not realistic,Dark/humor and comic book fantasy is a perfect mix and that is why I mostly prefer to watch the old movies than TDK trilogy

-BB may be my favorite in TDK trilogy

-I find the tumbler overrated and my favorite Bat Mobiles on film were the 1960's and B'89 cars

-Val Kilmer was a very underrated Bruce Wayne AND Batman

-Chris O'Donnel was a great Dick Grayson

-I believe 100% in Ben Affleck and that he&Snyder will make his Batman/Bruce Wayne the best one yet since Adam West

-I want to see a lighter Bat film again after the dc cinematic universe ends,Maybe something like the tone of the first Iron Man

-I want to see villains like Clayface/Killer Croc or Hush on film

-Batman from the animated series or the Arkham games is the best Bat/Bruce in any media outside of the comics

 

[WingedAvenger89]

I like you. The only thing I don't share your opinion on is your fondness for the crap that is Batman 1989.

Thanks bud, I like you too. That's ok, different strokes for different folks. It's a good adaptation of the earliest Detective Comics Bob Kane 1939 era stuff.

Batman '89 basically conceptualized and birthed this ENTIRE genre on screen. Hell, the modern blockbuster period. From franchising, merchandizing, and marketing. First real superhero movie that wasn't treated tongue in cheek like Donner's Superman, and brought in nuance of adult psychology.

Without B89, we wouldn't have got the MCU, or TDK trilogy. Or even good, but lesser films like Raimi's cheesy Spider-Man movies, Goyer's gritty Blade films or Singer's X-Men joints. Certainly not 2016's Batman v Superman.

WB, Peters, Burton, Nicholson, and Keaton should get a small percentage of gross from every comic book film for basically legitimizing the genre on screen, and paving the way for every comic book film to follow.

Oh, one more unpopular opinion:

I enjoy the quick editing, and brutality of Nolan's fight scenes. As opposed to over choreographed, dancing with the stars type fight scenes. Quick, brutal, and to the point would be the real life essence of Batman's fighting style. Not triple back flip, spinning round house kicks.

 

[TX85]

I forgot to add that Alex Ross,Jim Lee and Carmine Infantino are the best Batman comic artists or should at least be in every top list!

It's a good adaptation of the earliest Detective Comics Bob Kane 1939 era stuff.

Batman '89 basically conceptualized and birthed this ENTIRE genre on screen. Hell, the modern blockbuster period. From franchising, merchandizing, and marketing. First real superhero movie that wasn't treated tongue in cheek like Donner's Superman, and brought in nuance of adult psychology.

Without B89, we wouldn't have got the MCU, or TDK trilogy. Or even good, but lesser films like Raimi's cheesy Spider-Man movies, Goyer's gritty Blade films or Singer's X-Men joints. Certainly not 2016's Batman v Superman.

Oh, one more unpopular opinion:

I enjoy the quick editing, and brutality of Nolan's fight scenes. As opposed to over choreographed, dancing with the stars type fight scenes. Quick, brutal, and to the point would be the real life essence of Batman's fighting style. Not triple back flip, spinning round house kicks.

I fully agree on that part of B'89 but am mixed on your thoughts on the fighting style. I agree that brutal/quick and to the point is best but I disagree about the quick editing being a good thing. It was done great in TDK and TDKR and especially the part in TDK where he's in the bar/club.

The other fighting style ain't bad either though. I enjoyed Batman's fighting style in B'89-BF

 

[Travesty]

I always see people say they don't like Alex Ross around here. I seriously don't get it. I think he's amazing.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

BTAS has a lot of weak episodes.

Bale Bat voice is great.

Tim Burton Batman movies are very bad Batman movies that did no characters right.

Burton's Gotham looked like sets.

Val Kilmer was the best Batman from the old movies.

The Arkham games are good games but don't do the Batman characters well.

Nolan's action and fight scenes are the best.

Batman doesn't need Robin.

Batgirl is better than Robin.

 

[TX85]

Bale's Batvoice is not too awesome but not so horrible either and so I consider it underrated

Bale was great but I still think Keaton is the best Batman while Kilmer is the best Bruce Wayne and 2nd best Batman

BTAS had a lot of filler but even the weakest episodes weren't horrible

Arkham City had the best gameplay and alt.bat suits but overall AA&AO were much better games.

Arkham Origins had the best story and characterization out of first three games so far

I never liked any of the Robins including dick grayson until he grew up/went solo and became Nightwing. Red Robin is alright though

I prefer Barbara Gordon as Oracle than Bat Girl

I much prefer Batman alone except occasional JL stuff

I like Batman and Supes being friends but also like them at odds too

I'm still looking forward to Batman v Superman and think it will surprise many so much in a great way

Joker is awesome and understand why he's an arch nemesis but I find him overated and can only have him in small doses

 

[Keehar]

Thanks bud, I like you too. That's ok, different strokes for different folks. It's a good adaptation of the earliest Detective Comics Bob Kane 1939 era stuff.

Batman '89 basically conceptualized and birthed this ENTIRE genre on screen. Hell, the modern blockbuster period. From franchising, merchandizing, and marketing. First real superhero movie that wasn't treated tongue in cheek like Donner's Superman, and brought in nuance of adult psychology.

Without B89, we wouldn't have got the MCU, or TDK trilogy. Or even good, but lesser films like Raimi's cheesy Spider-Man movies, Goyer's gritty Blade films or Singer's X-Men joints. Certainly not 2016's Batman v Superman.

WB, Peters, Burton, Nicholson, and Keaton should get a small percentage of gross from every comic book film for basically legitimizing the genre on screen, and paving the way for every comic book film to follow.

You know what they say about clouds having silver linings. That was the one for suffering Batman 1989.

 

[WingedAvenger89]

You know what they say about clouds having silver linings. That was the one for suffering Batman 1989.

Just one silver lining?

Batman '89 birthed the modern blockbuster.
Batman '89 killed Batman's goofy perception thanks to the '66 show.
Batman '89 reinstalled the darkness the character had originally.
Batman '89 gave us the now infamous, ever quotable "I'm Batman"
Batman '89 made a MINT at the box office.
Batman '89 birthed the modern, serious comic book film.
Batman '89 made it socially acceptable to be a comic fan.
Batman '89's direct TV spin off being the GOAT mainstream cartoon, BTAS

 

[doobie]

I like a Batman with a grim, ironic sense of humor and wisecracks, like Brave n Bold and Begins.

I loved DKSA...

And ...TDK was a betrayal to Begins fans in it's general lack of focus on Batman and his coolness and cold, introverted Wayne. There I said it. Where was the "swear to me", giving the kid the gadget, warm, lovable Wayne, and scary shadowy Batman from BB gone.

no, don't post a bunch of lines from TDK you think are as good as "Swear to me".. like "I'm counting on it" ..they weren't as good. The only one that had a hope of competing was "then you're gonna love me". Batman should have stood out in TDK more. He could and should have had as many cool lines and memorable scenes as Joker - the Batman of BB or DKR (the book )would have. Instead he just gets to work looking cold and serious while Joker steals the show. The scenes with Rachel asking her for her love, could he not have put a drop of the passion and emotion he had in Begins in there? A Bale mannequin could have acted those scenes.


Also while I loved Heath Joker I don't think he was as unique as everyone said. Lots of episodes of shows like X Files have had chilling manipulative madmen who put a darkness in the heroes soul when they are captured by saying terrifying truths about human nature in their interrogations. A lot of obscure actors in X Files played characters like that just as well..IMO.


I don't think any of Joker's post 70s cold blooded kills, like Jason and Gordon's wife Sarah, are classic moments for the character. Any thug can use a gun. Things like laughing fish are the classics.

 

[Keehar]

Just one silver lining?

Batman '89 birthed the modern blockbuster.
Batman '89 killed Batman's goofy perception thanks to the '66 show.
Batman '89 reinstalled the darkness the character had originally.
Batman '89 gave us the now infamous, ever quotable "I'm Batman"
Batman '89 made a MINT at the box office.
Batman '89 birthed the modern, serious comic book film.
Batman '89 made it socially acceptable to be a comic fan.
Batman '89's direct TV spin off being the GOAT mainstream cartoon, BTAS

I think Donner's Superman was the first comic book movie that made comic book movies look cool and acceptable to be a comic book fan. It's one of the things about Batman 1989 that frustrates me that some people think Batman did it first. Not only is Donner's Superman better than Burton's Batman by light years but it's the one that gave the comic book movies credibility to the public first.

Don't care about the "I'm Batman" line. It didn't change anything radically for Batman. You already mentioned the other stuff in your last post and I said they were the silver lining. Sometimes you have to swim through the crap to get to the good stuff. Think of Andy DuFrane in The Shawshank Redemption swimming through that long pipe of crap and getting to sweet freedom. That was the Batman franchise going through the Burton/Schumacher era and getting the effects you mentioned, along with the TDK trilogy.

And ...TDK was a betrayal to Begins fans in it's general lack of focus on Batman and his coolness and cold, introverted Wayne. There I said it. Where was the "swear to me", giving the kid the gadget, warm, lovable Wayne, and scary shadowy Batman from BB gone.

no, don't post a bunch of lines from TDK you think are as good as "Swear to me".. like "I'm counting on it" ..they weren't as good.

Not as good for you. I thought that and the others were better than the BB lines. "Then you're gonna love me", "Im not wearing hockey pads", "I'm counting on it", leaving the "Please deliver to Lt. Gordon" message on Lau outside Police station, slamming Joker's head on the table after Gordon turns the interrogation room lights on, flipping the Joker's over. There's also the Bruce Wayne playboy scenes that we have not listed. More than any movie Batman has had. He had way more funny and cool scenes. That's why Bale is the best. He brings it all.

Also while I loved Heath Joker I don't think he was as unique as everyone said. Lots of episodes of shows like X Files have had chilling manipulative madmen who put a darkness in the heroes soul when they are captured by saying terrifying truths about human nature in their interrogations. A lot of obscure actors in X Files played characters like that just as well..IMO.

I don't think any of Joker's post 70s cold blooded kills, like Jason and Gordon's wife Sarah, are classic moments for the character. Any thug can use a gun. Things like laughing fish are the classics.

No way. Joker is the one who made that unique and classy. He's been doing that for years before the X-Files. He did it in what anyone would agree is his most famous story, The Killing Joke, where he tried to drive Gordon crazy.

He turned his shrink, Harley Quinn, into his crazy love slave by screwing with her mind.

Regular Batman comics and Batman animated series adapted comics had him doing it on his fellow villains too.

Give me that over a smiling fish plot any day. If any of your X-Files villains were doing this then then they're Joker influenced.

 

[doobie]

to be honest, I can see how it serves the story to see Bale go from the hopeful hero of BB to the tired, sadder man of TDK. And it is a powerful performance of character development when you watch the 2 together. I just wish Nolan hadn't put the tired, sad Bruce in the story at a time when he was having to compete with Joker and Two Face for standout scenes. And I wish Bale had put a glimmer of the Begins hope/emotion into the scenes with Rachel asking if she would wait for him. It would have been powerful seeing the BB Bruce's hope come back for that scene instead of the frozen tired Bruce.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

-I love both,the black bat and yellow symbols but I have to go with the oval a bit more.

-Batman:The Brave and The Bold is underrated and a ton of fun.

-I find the tumbler overrated and my favorite Bat Mobiles on film were the 1960's and B'89 cars

-Val Kilmer was a very underrated Bruce Wayne AND Batman

-Chris O'Donnel was a great Dick Grayson

-I want to see a lighter Bat film again after the dc cinematic universe ends,Maybe something like the tone of the first Iron Man

-I want to see villains like Clayface/Killer Croc or Hush on film

I always see people say they don't like Alex Ross around here. I seriously don't get it. I think he's amazing.

I like Alex Ross.

 

[Shikamaru]

Just one silver lining?

Batman '89 birthed the modern blockbuster.

Star Wars and Superman '78 say hi. That's technically where the modern blockbuster starts, followed by about a decade of other successful films before B89.

Batman '89 killed Batman's goofy perception thanks to the '66 show.
Batman '89 reinstalled the darkness the character had originally.

True, but only to an extent. The darkness was already reinstalled by writers like Dennis O'Neil and Frank Miller. B89 simply presented it to the public.

Batman '89 gave us the now infamous, ever quotable "I'm Batman"

Did it really? Either way, there's tons of famous quotes you can pull from all across the versions. That comes with the beauty of having a 75 year old mythos with such variety. Also, since when is the quote infamous?

Batman '89 made a MINT at the box office.

Which we all know doesn't equate to quality. I'm not saying the film is crap, but it's almost never a good idea to fall back on box office as an argument, either way. Especially when novelty is a factor.

Batman '89 birthed the modern, serious comic book film.

Again, I would argue the first two Superman films did it first. Maybe not serious in terms of "dark n gritty", but it was the first superhero film the public could take seriously (and was meant to be).

Batman '89 made it socially acceptable to be a comic fan.

I'm not sure if that happened until very recently. I would argue TDK and Avengers contributed to it the most, especially the latter.

Batman '89's direct TV spin off being the GOAT mainstream cartoon, BTAS

Monetarily, yes. In essence, the show was almost nothing like the film past some of the visuals.