Indeed, and again check out his full article. I'd post it directly but there is nudity on the page.
By the way that magazine scan that Williams includes, the picture of Tarantino and Kerry Washington, is about the most hilariously off-base piece of movie promotion I've ever seen.
Indeed, and again check out his full article. I'd post it directly but there is nudity on the page.
By the way that magazine scan that Williams includes, the picture of Tarantino and Kerry Washington, is about the most hilariously off-base piece of movie promotion I've ever seen.
Ah Thanks you are correct. Been a while since I've actually seen it. Still, a very weird pic for a white director to take while promoting his slavery film.
Ah Thanks you are correct. Been a while since I've actually seen it. Still, a very weird pic for a white director to take while promoting his slavery film.
Django Unchained was a self important cartoon, or rather a cartoon that the filmmaker himself believed had far more depth and "authenticity" than it did.
This short bit on CNN is pretty good but his full thoughts, linked at the end of the article, is a great piece of writing.
Also though you say Django torture scenes were more effective because you cared about the characters but are you implying that you don't care for the characters in 12 Years A Slave? That's a little confusing.
Broomhilda is a complete non-character in Django Unchained (there was supposed to be some scenes earlier in the film that would have established here character but were cut when Sasha Baron Cohen dropped out.) On the other hand we spend time with Patsy in her struggles, as she works hard to gain favor only to suffer her owner's pre-occupations and further brutality due to the jealousy of his wife. She is ultimately punished for seeking the minimal dignity of a bar of soap. And even that violence has more emotional and character context than just about anything in Django. Solomon is forced to not just watch as Patsy is whipped but to do so himself, this after she came to him asking him for a release, to be spared, to be killed. Patsy is a character with her own struggles and story separate from Solomon. Broomhilda is essentially a McGuffin, with no real existence within the story other than her relation to Django and his wants and desires. Its little more than a video game plot.
I mostly care about Broomhilda's pain because I care about Django. The pain of a man's wife is pain to that man. And you are correct, I didn't care much about anyone in '12 Years A Slave'. The writing gave me no reason to. And I don't really watch movies for plot. Nor has Tarantino ever written a plot driven film. But that's besides the point. This isn't a Django topic.
And what of Cumberbatch's character? His part was smaller than Fassbender's but he wasn't monstrous, which actually made his acts and words even worse. The gift of the violin was supposed to be a benevolent act but his tidings of "I hope it brings you all great joy in the years to come" really drives home to Solomon the situation he was in. His status as a slave wasn't just a mixup that would be sorted out soon but was in fact intended to be permanent. Solomon had thought Ford was "not a bad man, given the circumstances" but as is pointed out to him, the circumstances were that Ford was a slaver.
Even Fassbender's character is shown to not just be driven by malice, but by paranoia and the struggles of his failed marriage. He is shown alternatively raping a woman and offering a young girl candy.
I think you can make that case for his actions in the climatic whipping, but I wouldn't interpret that in any other instance. And his wife was a total monstrous caricature herself. Cumberbatch's character could have certainly provided more insight and more depth, but his lack of screen time and McQueen's lack of desire to focus on him in the story leads his character to ultimately be a good, yet underdeveloped idea/character in the story.
I mostly care about Broomhilda's pain because I care about Django. The pain of a man's wife is pain to that man. And you are correct, I didn't care much about anyone in '12 Years A Slave'. The writing gave me no reason to. And I don't really watch movies for plot. Nor has Tarantino ever written a plot driven film. But that's besides the point. This isn't a Django topic.
A matter of taste I guess. This is not a Django topic, but your differing opinions of the two films certainly illustrates the differences we have in approaching the material and the characters in that film and in 12 Years a Slave. The characters in 12 Years A Slave are far more recognizably human than anyone in Django. I was more affected by the violence in 12 Years a slave because it was presented as part of and along side their everyday struggles and loss of dignity and individuality. You found the violence against Broomhilda more effective due to her ties to the superhero badass at the center of a revenge plot. We simply have different opinions of what a film needs to do to "give us a reason to care."
Sidenote, and we can move this to another thread, but do you really not see the problem with a film in which the pain of the female character only matters due to her relation to the male protagonist and his wants and needs? Its a pretty widespread problem in our popular culture.
A matter of taste I guess. This is not a Django topic, but your differing opinions of the two films certainly illustrates the differences we have in approaching the material and the characters in that film and in 12 Years a Slave. The characters in 12 Years A Slave are far more recognizably human than anyone in Django. I was more affected by the violence in 12 Years a slave because it was presented as part of and along side their everyday struggles and loss of dignity and individuality. You found the violence against Broomhilda more effective due to her ties to the superhero badass at the center of a revenge plot. We simply have different opinions of what a film needs to do to "give us a reason to care."
Is that supposed to be a burn? I'm all about keeping it civil man.
I cared because the characters were written well enough for me to know them and understand them. Just because a character is more 'real' doesn't mean its better written/acted or executed. Heath Ledger's Joker is about as fake as you can get, yet many people would agree that he was one of the greatest characters in recent pop culture(as in the last 5 years). Like I said, the audience learns next to nothing about Solomon. My main reason for watching films is to watch characters. This film had no fleshed out characters. If that makes me stupid as your implying with your 'badass revenge plot' comment, so be it.
Not a burn at all, just an observation about approach. You seem to care about those characters due to their relation to the revenge plot. Outside of the needs of the plot, there is pretty much nothing to those characters.
Again I ask, what exactly was there to understand about the characters in Django, Broomhilda in particular, in comparison to Patsy and Solomon in this film?
You say the characters in 12 Years A Slave are not fleshed out but I simply disagree.
As I've explained before Patsy is a character developed with her own struggle for dignity separate from Solomon's.
It is pretty obvious from the start that having been born free and having lived in a comparatively high station within white society, Solomon does not at all understand the lives of slaves, or even how other people perceive him. The slave comes into the shop when Solomon is shopping with his family and Solomon addresses the slave owner as an equal, which sets the man aback. Even the store clerk shoots him a look.
Solomon is quite naive in his trust when traveling to another city with complete strangers, not understanding the risks he was taking. After he his captured and sent on the boat to the south, the other slaves attempt to explain to him the severity of his situation. You can finally start to see this sink in for Solomon in the scene with the violin. For a time Solomon ignores other slaves' advice to keep his head down, to not stand out, but after exercising his intellect and individuality bring him great trouble, you see him take greater care to hide his identity and over time largely giving it up.
Solomon breaking down, joining the group and joining in their song (which if I am not mistaken is the first time he does so in the film) is a heart breaking scene due to these implications.
Django Unchained was a self important cartoon, or rather a cartoon that the filmmaker himself believed had far more depth and "authenticity" than it did.
This short bit on CNN is pretty good but his full thoughts, linked at the end of the article, is a great piece of writing.
Also though you say Django torture scenes were more effective because you cared about the characters but are you implying that you don't care for the characters in 12 Years A Slave? That's a little confusing.
Broomhilda is a complete non-character in Django Unchained (there was supposed to be some scenes earlier in the film that would have established here character but were cut when Sasha Baron Cohen dropped out.) On the other hand we spend time with Patsy in her struggles, as she works hard to gain favor only to suffer her owner's pre-occupations and further brutality due to the jealousy of his wife. She is ultimately punished for seeking the minimal dignity of a bar of soap. And even that violence has more emotional and character context than just about anything in Django. Solomon is forced to not just watch as Patsy is whipped but to do so himself, this after she came to him asking him for a release, to be spared, to be killed. Patsy is a character with her own struggles and story separate from Solomon. Broomhilda is essentially a McGuffin, with no real existence within the story other than her relation to Django and his wants and desires. Its little more than a video game plot.
So... actually getting back to the film, all I can say is wow. I was speechless by the end of it. I finally saw this and it was so powerful. I think this will go down as one of the decade's best. Now one of the greatest movies ever made is a hyperbole, but I'm gonna let it sink in and see it again, because this is something that should be experienced at the cinema.
Ejiofor and Fassbender were powerhouses. Everyone else surrounding them was brilliant as well. But those two will definitely be nominated.
I feel like this film is gonna be like Schindler's List and actually be showed in high school classrooms. It's definitely an important film and I've never seen a slavery story quite so well told.
Saw this a little while ago...I don't think it's as powerful as Schindler's List, but it definitely makes an impression (that last whipping scene is a tough one) and is the kind of movie that I feel like people should watch.
I wish the movie had spent a little more time on Ford and the question of whether he can be a slave-owner and a good man at the same time.
I thought Cumberbatch was very good for what little he had, and I thought the ambiguity of Ford was interesting. Like, he treats Solomon really well, but at the same time he refuses to hear about him being a free man because he needs him to settle a debt.
Finally saw it last night and it actually lived up to the hype. The actress who played Patsie deserves as much recognition as Ejifor and Fassbender and both of them were incredible. Brilliant casting there.
Almost perfect film. My ONLY criticism, and a small one at that, is that I did not like the use of the orchestral score at certain parts of the movie, like in the early paddleboat scene for instance, where I felt the director was trying to be like Chris Nolan or Ridley Scott. The movie needed no such artifices to create horror and tension.
“According to McQueen’s film, who is to blame, then for this crushing environment? Is it the master? No, for every master in this film is himself half a man. Is it Christianity? No, for Christianity gets used as a device just as much as the noose. Perhaps the answer comes in an early scene. Northup and family walk into a shop to purchase a shawl before Anne (Ashley Dyke) heads out of town for a job. In all likelihood the shawl she chose was made from the cotton that was picked in the plantations a thousand miles to the south. Who is to blame for this crushing environment? Trade, economics, and the subsequent blind eye we all turn to the atrocities that allow us our lifestyles. Solomon Northup’s central challenge throughout the film was to maintain his humanity above the bottom line of the market.”
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