Comics Storm & T'Challa: Royal Wedding Countdown Discussion

[GNR]

You guys havent' even read the god damn book yet and you're already trashing it.The past 5 issues of BP has been really good stuff.Don't be slamming this book just because this writer has a different take on a character.Hudlin has been great on this book.I would even say it's been more entertaining than any x-book on the shelf.

 

[weatherwitch]

You guys havent' even read the god damn book yet and you're already trashing it.The past 5 issues of BP has been really good stuff.Don't be slamming this book just because this writer has a different take on a character.Hudlin has been great on this book.I would even say it's been more entertaining than any x-book on the shelf.

For the record, I do read the books. I have all of Hudlin's run on BP and a fair amount of Priest's, so I'm not just spouting out my ass. Of the 14 BP's current, half have been with guest stars. I have yet to see Hudlin write BP in any way that suggests that his version of Panther could stand on his own merit. And I never will. As of right now he's pulling in Storm. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I don't care if you do or not, but don't for one minute presume to lump us all into a category of "whiners" as Hudlin has so mistakenly done. Hudlin's take is not simply different, but is downright wrong. Every writer has a different take on the characters, and as I said before at HEF the heart and soul (so to speak) remain the same. Such is not the case here. With such a feverent fan outcry one would think that perhaps there was room for compromise. Alas, we are finding none.

 

[weatherwitch]

I have read your comments on the HEF. Your views of Black Panther are sexist and underestimates him. Your view of Storm is ironically aristocratic if not cult-like. Those people there are giving good answers and you're being very stubborn to them. It sounds like you're against change. Looking at what's happened to the X-Men lately, real change is needed.

My views on Panther are sexist? Wow, that's a stretch. I was a fan of Panther under Priest, so I had T'Challa on a rather high pedestal and never underestimated him. I underestimate the current writer, greatly...with obvious just cause. Aristocratic and cult like? Are those my comments your reading? I never once said he was unworthy of her, I said this marriage reaked of forced hands and gimmick--and it does. If anything I don't want Storm back in a role of Queen or Goddess, I seriously dislike that aspect of her character. It gets old real damn quick. If you read my posts then you would have read the part where I stated that had this played out as an adult romance over time and not a smacked together publicity stunt, I would be in the front lines of defense of this union. Comprehension is a valuable skill as I've said time and again. Read a post entirely for what it says, not what you think it implies.

 

[rjb182]

Regarding the issue of Storm committing murder, she just causes a jet to explode, right? So if one desperately wanted to justify the scene, one could argue:

1) She didn't really mean to kill; she just created a hazard (the twister) meant to discourage them that got out of control, and

2) The pilot might have ejected (although it wasn't drawn that way) before his fighter blew.

No, I don't really think that's what was meant, either, but if I were trying to impress Stan Lee and win a No-Prize back in the old days by retconning a problem out of existence, that's what I'd say...

(Although I do wonder why I'm bothering to defend those pages; as a Catholic, I'm either semi-offended or just laughing out loud at the "Vatican Black Ops Division" thing...)

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I have read your comments on the HEF. Your views of Black Panther are sexist and underestimates him. Your view of Storm is ironically aristocratic if not cult-like. Those people there are giving good answers and you're being very stubborn to them. It sounds like you're against change. Looking at what's happened to the X-Men lately, real change is needed.

Change is fine...if it's for the better.

Time will tell, but thusfar, I am starting to agree with everyone else--this isn't the kind of change we wanted for Storm's character development. This is...something else.

 

[supermarvelman]

Cool avatar.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Oh dear lord. Storm killing? That's it....I won't be reading anything further dealing with this wedding.

I'd love to see what Hudlin says about that...

 

[Effect]

*sigh* I hate when things like this happen and it wouldn't have if Hudlin wasn't the only one calling the shots on a character that was already established in several other titles for decades. There should have been an X-writer doing this with Hudlin instead of him being allowed to do it himself. Pure crap.

 

[BrianWilly]

Don't be slamming this book just because this writer has a different take on a character.

If we can't criticize a book when a character is being completely mischaracterized, then what the heck are we supposed to criticize it for?

 

[Red Mask]

For the record, I do read the books. I have all of Hudlin's run on BP and a fair amount of Priest's, so I'm not just spouting out my ass. Of the 14 BP's current, half have been with guest stars. I have yet to see Hudlin write BP in any way that suggests that his version of Panther could stand on his own merit. And I never will. As of right now he's pulling in Storm. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I don't care if you do or not, but don't for one minute presume to lump us all into a category of "whiners" as Hudlin has so mistakenly done. Hudlin's take is not simply different, but is downright wrong. Every writer has a different take on the characters, and as I said before at HEF the heart and soul (so to speak) remain the same. Such is not the case here. With such a feverent fan outcry one would think that perhaps there was room for compromise. Alas, we are finding none.

Aye caramba. Your opinion about T'Challa quickly thinking of an heir can be construed as sexist. What was it, response #378? Just because Hudlin brought it up doesn't mean that's T'Challa's motive for marrying Storm. In issue #10 we see him suggest to his mother to make a clone for an heir because he was too wrapped up in avenging his father. The Queen Mother then explained marriage would balance out his life. In issue #14 the flashback with his father told him the value of romantic love. That explains why the Black Panther's been so reluctant to seek a wife. It sounds like an ideal he can't achieve because of high station. Ororo was the first love who treated him simply as a friend. Their break-up was created by adult responsibilities. The adult world versus personal life. We've read these heroes long enough but what of the people behind the roles? What exists behind the masks of the Black Panther and Storm? Consider their most intimate feelings. I don't find that forced. It's actually very revealing.

 

[weatherwitch]

Aye caramba. Your opinion about T'Challa quickly thinking of an heir can be construed as sexist. What was it, response #378? Just because Hudlin brought it up doesn't mean that's T'Challa's motive for marrying Storm. In issue #10 we see him suggest to his mother to make a clone for an heir because he was too wrapped up in avenging his father. The Queen Mother then explained marriage would balance out his life. In issue #14 the flashback with his father told him the value of romantic love. That explains why the Black Panther's been so reluctant to seek a wife. It sounds like an ideal he can't achieve because of high station. Ororo was the first love who treated him simply as a friend. Their break-up was created by adult responsibilities. The adult world versus personal life. We've read these heroes long enough but what of the people behind the roles? It's only now do we consider their most intimate feelings.

Considering that Hudlin is writing Panther I'd say that his motivations would be suspect to hold true for the character, as characters are indeed molded by the writer. Reading his latest interview doesn't ease that at all. The consensous thus far hasn't been good, and instead of addressing these issues Hudlin refers to nonsupporters as fanboys and dismisses them outright. This is the man who hols an esteemed character like T'challa in his hands. As a Panther fan, that should concern you.

 

[Red Mask]

Considering that Hudlin is writing Panther I'd say that his motivations would be suspect to hold true for the character, as characters are indeed molded by the writer. Reading his latest interview doesn't ease that at all. The consensous thus far hasn't been good, and instead of addressing these issues Hudlin refers to nonsupporters as fanboys and dismisses them outright. This is the man who hols an esteemed character like T'challa in his hands. As a Panther fan, that should concern you.

I was when this wedding was first announced. But I like his take on Black Panther. He's not afraid to draw in political and social issues. Hudlin's Panther is also not a cypher like Priest's. He's more vocal, but still intelligent. He can be diplomatic but also honest, i.e. in Wild Kingdom. He gives another explanation as to why Wakanda stays isolated from the world. He's drawn using martial arts that can be traced to Africa. I no longer have concerns of comparing him to Batman.

 

[Effect]

Has Priest's run of Black Panther been released in a TPB?

How long was his run?

Really interested in seeing what that version of BP is like and if I'll like it better.

 

[weatherwitch]

Yes, boys and girls, Hudlin is that dumb:

Reginald Recieves New Honor
« on: April 06, 2006, 07:58:11 PM »

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
I was talking to my comic book mentor Dwayne McDuffie this evening.
We were discussing cool projects we are planning on doing together,
then I asked him what he thought about the fanboy reactions to the
Panther/Storm marriage.

"Keep it up. They're even more racist than I thought."

"THAT is scary" I replied.

"They're hitting you harder than they ever hit me or Priest. Good
news: it means you're a threat."

We talked about how Monica Rambeau was never interested in black men
until he wrote her...similar to me writing Storm. Dwayne
understood.

"She's too good for black men. Just Dracula, Arkon and Doom."

His best line had to be: "Please. Wolverine is a piece of ass. Not
her man."

Dwayne crowned me the most hated of black writers, but said "But I
hope to regain the crown, someday. I'm Apollo Creed at the end of
Rocky II. I'll help you, but I want the belt."


You'll excuse me now while I vomit.

 

[Blackpanther22]

Does the guy realise taht Storm's most serious relationship was with Forge?!?!? This shows how little they know about Storm's history, and one of the possible motives why she wouldn't hurry into a marriage (afraid to be let down again). *rolls eyes*

 

[OutcryX]

Yes, boys and girls, Hudlin is that dumb:

Reginald Recieves New Honor
« on: April 06, 2006, 07:58:11 PM »

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
I was talking to my comic book mentor Dwayne McDuffie this evening.
We were discussing cool projects we are planning on doing together,
then I asked him what he thought about the fanboy reactions to the
Panther/Storm marriage.

"Keep it up. They're even more racist than I thought."

"THAT is scary" I replied.

"They're hitting you harder than they ever hit me or Priest. Good
news: it means you're a threat."

We talked about how Monica Rambeau was never interested in black men
until he wrote her...similar to me writing Storm. Dwayne
understood.

"She's too good for black men. Just Dracula, Arkon and Doom."

His best line had to be: "Please. Wolverine is a piece of ass. Not
her man."

Dwayne crowned me the most hated of black writers, but said "But I
hope to regain the crown, someday. I'm Apollo Creed at the end of
Rocky II. I'll help you, but I want the belt."


You'll excuse me now while I vomit.

Well...since Storm NEEDS to be with a black man...Bishop would make more since...he's half black at least...half aboriginie...that and they have a more publicized and understandable history

 

[weatherwitch]

Well...since Storm NEEDS to be with a black man...Bishop would make more since...he's half black at least...half aboriginie...that and they have a more publicized and understandable history

Nice avvy. D

 

[rjb182]

Y'know, I can understand the man being a little defensive, and at some point you do have to tune out fanboy ranting, I guess, but it seems from that article that he's just not trying to see the issue here or doesn't care.

I have almost never seen anybody say she's "too good" for Black Panther. Indeed, as I've said before, I think he's one of her few love interests who really IS worthy of her...

It's got nothing to do with worthiness OR race and everything to do with "Does Storm love this guy? If so, is she really going to marry him? Just like that?"

He seems to be assuming there's some kind of inherent racism in asking the question, or that his story's so good that you couldn't possibly miss the answers if you weren't racist, and I'm sorry, but that's not the case. I know, as a writer myself, that it bites when people resist your message or don't get what you're trying to say and it's often hard to admit that, but it happens.

There's also some proprietary interest from X-Fans, I think, where we're a little bothered that OUR character is being wedded to an "outsider"-- regardless of race-- without our consent, as it were. But that also wouldn't matter if we were convinced that it's being done right by Ororo.

Is this the logical action to take right now-- not just for some archetypal image of a strong black woman, but for Ororo Munroe... for STORM? Convince people beyond a doubt of THAT part, and I bet the majority of the other complaints would fade away...

It's not all that hard a test, really, but you can't sidestep it. That question has to be met head-on and ANSWERED. You can't just assume the answer is obvious, which he seems to be doing.

 

[OutcryX]

Nice avvy. D

why thank you...picked it up at a thrift shop somewhere...

 

[OutcryX]

Y'know, I can understand the man being a little defensive, and at some point you do have to tune out fanboy ranting, I guess, but it seems from that article that he's just not trying to see the issue here or doesn't care.

I have almost never seen anybody say she's "too good" for Black Panther. Indeed, as I've said before, I think he's one of her few love interests who really IS worthy of her...

It's got nothing to do with worthiness OR race and everything to do with "Does Storm love this guy? If so, is she really going to marry him? Just like that?"

He seems to be assuming there's some kind of inherent racism in asking the question, or that his story's so good that you couldn't possibly miss the answers if you weren't racist, and I'm sorry, but that's not the case. I know, as a writer myself, that it bites when people resist your message or don't get what you're trying to say and it's often hard to admit that, but it happens.

There's also some proprietary interest from X-Fans, I think, where we're a little bothered that OUR character is being wedded to an "outsider"-- regardless of race-- without our consent, as it were. But that also wouldn't matter if we were convinced that it's being done right by Ororo.

Is this the logical action to take right now-- not just for some archetypal image of a strong black woman, but for Ororo Munroe... for STORM? Convince people beyond a doubt of THAT part, and I bet the majority of the other complaints would fade away...

It's not all that hard a test, really, but you can't sidestep it. That question has to be met head-on and ANSWERED. You can't just assume the answer is obvious, which he seems to be doing.

Agreed!

 

[weatherwitch]

rjb182--Well said. up:

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Yes, boys and girls, Hudlin is that dumb:

Reginald Recieves New Honor
« on: April 06, 2006, 07:58:11 PM »

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
I was talking to my comic book mentor Dwayne McDuffie this evening.
We were discussing cool projects we are planning on doing together,
then I asked him what he thought about the fanboy reactions to the
Panther/Storm marriage.

"Keep it up. They're even more racist than I thought."

"THAT is scary" I replied.

"They're hitting you harder than they ever hit me or Priest. Good
news: it means you're a threat."

We talked about how Monica Rambeau was never interested in black men
until he wrote her...similar to me writing Storm. Dwayne
understood.

"She's too good for black men. Just Dracula, Arkon and Doom."

His best line had to be: "Please. Wolverine is a piece of ass. Not
her man."

Dwayne crowned me the most hated of black writers, but said "But I
hope to regain the crown, someday. I'm Apollo Creed at the end of
Rocky II. I'll help you, but I want the belt."

What the @#$%&!!???


Who are these fools? And why are they assuming that fans that are not supporting this "wedding" are racists--of all things? What about those of us who are BLACK and still think it's turning out badly? Is it not occuring to these shortsighted businessmen that maybe--just maybe--readers aren't feeling it because it----oh, I dunno--might SUCK?

Now I'm pissed.

 

[LittleMissVixen]

What the @#$%&!!???


Who are these fools? And why are they assuming that fans that are not supporting this "wedding" are racists--of all things? What about those of us who are BLACK and still think it's turning out badly? Is it not occuring to these shortsighted businessmen that maybe--just maybe--readers aren't feeling it because it----oh, I dunno--might SUCK?

Now I'm pissed.

Oh My God....I can not believe the crap this man is spewing....to paraphrase, "Well, since these black women are dating or interested in men that aren't black, we better put them back in their place?....Oh...so you're dating a white guy...I guess you think you are too good for a black man...."

I think the implications they are directing towards the character of Storm (and Monica) are horrible, racist and narrow minded.

 

[synnerman]

Yes, boys and girls, Hudlin is that dumb:


Dwayne crowned me the most hated of black writers, but said "But I
hope to regain the crown, someday. I'm Apollo Creed at the end of
Rocky II. I'll help you, but I want the belt."


You'll excuse me now while I vomit.

Wow, talking about deluded. I mean totally. Oh well, I hope it pays off otherwise I'll be laughing my ass off. They only thing he has in common in Priest in being black, male, and writing in comics. He's a suck TACKULAR writer of women in my opinion.

Oh well, I always have back issues and X3.

EDIT: And I HATE that Dwayne McDuffe has been drawn into this. Hudlin isn't disliked because he's black, Hudlin is disliked because of his work, at least not by me. Then again he probably considers me a race traitor because I don't watch BET.

 

[LittleMissVixen]

Free Storm!!!!!