Superheroes of today are 'bad role models'

[SoulManX]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/aug/16/superheroes-role-models-child-psychologist

 

[terry78]

She may actually want to talk to Stan Lee about all that, because most of his characters are egotistical and flawed, which is why he created them, as somewhat of an antithesis to DC.

 

[C. Lee]

It's funny how she says THE SUPERHEROES OF TODAY and specifictly pointing out Tony Stark/Iron Man....guess she never read Iron Man in the 60's...when he was a boozing womanizing cad.....

 

[Franklin Richards]

Anyone who has a problem with Ben Grimm, has a problem with me.

 

[petey]

i dont get it. why would she single out tony stark, he's a real guy not some alien from another planet who cant be harmed by our earthly weapons. so he has to be more aggressive and sarcastic, plus didnt he shut down the weapons manufacturing division and claim that the iron man suit was not a weapon but a force of good, to provide world aid. maybe she hated the flicks.

 

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

She needs to do her research before making herself look like an @ss!

 

[Raiden]

Tony Stark is great because he actually feels like a real person, as opposed to other superheroes like Superman who won't have even one indecent thought in them. How realistic is that?

 

[Spider-Who?]

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but you gotta see where her opinion is coming from, and move away from y(our) fan boy bias and understanding of the character.

Her research isn't targeted towards us. Its targeted towards younger kids where these movies are most likely their first contact with characters like Iron Man.

These movies DO glamorize Stark's drinking and womanizing. We see it as examples of his "humanity", but little Johnny 10 year old won't see it and say "yes, he is a flawed hero". He will see Stark drinking and banging every hot woman he sees and will think "wow, that's really cool! I wish i was like that!" (hell, i'm 25 and I STILL think that).

Its not about how "real" the character feels in this case. Its how his glamorized actions look and inspire/warp an impressionable mind. They see a rich guy who steps into an awesome metal suit, flies around the world killing bad guys, and then goes home to drink and bang hot women. Its awesome and they think its ok because he's a "superhero". That's as deep as their thoughts on the matter get.

All that being said, its not a fictional character's responsibility to raise a morally sound child.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think people need to stop throwing blame at the media and start throwing blame at the parents.

It seems that every which way people blame the media, but never the parents for letting the kids know. "You know this isnt how you should act", "You know this is not real", etc.

 

[Figs]

I think people need to stop throwing blame at the media and start throwing blame at the parents.

It seems that every which way people blame the media, but never the parents for letting the kids know. "You know this isnt how you should act", "You know this is not real", etc.

Yup. That's been the sad state of affairs in America. A lot of lazy parenting going on and due to being embarrased when their kids do something stupid they blame it on the entertainment industry.

It's actually gotten to the point where people are trying to cry bloody murder about things that could cause an uneducated child to do something bad before it actually happens...similar to this article. Well, they're not crying bloody murder in the article and as Spider-Who? mentioned they do have somewhat of a point(even though they didn't do their research)but I think they're jumping the gun.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Parents doing parenting? CRAZY! >o

 

[webhead731]

"'MOMMY! I wanna Kick-Ass party!' Dumb little ****s"

 

[petey]

I think people need to stop throwing blame at the media and start throwing blame at the parents.

It seems that every which way people blame the media, but never the parents for letting the kids know. "You know this isnt how you should act", "You know this is not real", etc.

I agree with this statement. My dad showed me my first comic when I was like 4 when i got a little older and started reading them on my own, he explained why they are heroes but showed me what the toll of being such caused the characters. how what they were doing was really hurting themselves. But being a hero is never easy.

That being said there will always be a crusader who thinks that whats in vogue is somehow hurting our youth.

 

[MadVillainy]

"'MOMMY! I wanna Kick-Ass party!' Dumb little ****s"

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I thought you actually had to do research for psychologically, if she did just basic research she'd see Iron Man was created in the '60s and has had the same personality traits the entire time.

 

[Alchemyst]

"These men, like Iron Man, exploit women, flaunt bling and convey their manhood with high-powered guns."

Iron Man uses guns? i thought he used that repulsor ****, at any rate she needs to actually read the comics and understand the character as opposed to just looking at the pictures and immediately assume he's violent and what not

 

[SpideyInATree]

He was quoting the bad guy character from Kick Ass. If you watch that movie you'll get the context of the quote.

I hate people like this woman. These psychologists who worm up and start saying they did all these test and interviews about the subject and it's something that we "have to worry about". Give me a break! It's entertainment! It's fiction!

Did she, at any point in her interviews with boys 4 to 18, ask about their home lives and their parents? Are they living in single parent households? Are the parents abusive or even present on a regular basis? Are they being raised by "the nanny"?

Why is it just about superhero films? What about movies in general? I mean wouldn't James Bond be just as guilty? Those movies were made in the '60's and '70's and '80's and '90's. It was movies about a boozing, womanizing secret agent beating the crap out of bad guys. Sound familair, huh? So, I guess according to this woman the male ego has SERIOUSLY been affected already. It's too late, beotch!!! We've already been diseased!!!

Someone like this woman is dangerous. You know who she sounds like? She sounds like that professor back in the 1950's who targeted the EC horror comics and said they were warping chlidren's brains. He got those comics banned and, honestly, he wanted all comic books banned. People see something that's popular, they target it, and they want it to help make them famous. It's not Tony Stark we have to worry about. He's ficitonal. It's you, honey, with your warped way of doing your psychological research.

 

[Figs]

He was quoting the bad guy character from Kick Ass. If you watch that movie you'll get the context of the quote.

Hahaha! I love that line from Strong, "I'll give you a ****ing high five!".

Someone like this woman is dangerous. You know who she sounds like? She sounds like that professor back in the 1950's who targeted the EC horror comics and said they were warping chlidren's brains. He got those comics banned and, honestly, he wanted all comic books banned. People see something that's popular, they target it, and they want it to help make them famous. It's not Tony Stark we have to worry about. He's ficitonal. It's you, honey, with your warped way of doing your psychological research.

It's not just that but in those days, things were a bit simpler. Over the decades society has gotten desensitized more and more and thus a lot of things people started to let slide, or they just "got used to it" and didn't care anymore. Back when they banned EC comics comics were considered tash by a lot of parents, it wasn't just people trying to get in the spotlight. With actual novels and literature out there, comics in that day and age were looked down upon.

Reminds me of that scene in Creepshow with the dad yelling at his son for reading the Creepshow comic and then throwing it in the trash. t:

 

[Immortalfire]

This woman is a loon.

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[Spider-X]

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but you gotta see where her opinion is coming from, and move away from y(our) fan boy bias and understanding of the character.

Her research isn't targeted towards us. Its targeted towards younger kids where these movies are most likely their first contact with characters like Iron Man.

These movies DO glamorize Stark's drinking and womanizing. We see it as examples of his "humanity", but little Johnny 10 year old won't see it and say "yes, he is a flawed hero". He will see Stark drinking and banging every hot woman he sees and will think "wow, that's really cool! I wish i was like that!" (hell, i'm 25 and I STILL think that).

Its not about how "real" the character feels in this case. Its how his glamorized actions look and inspire/warp an impressionable mind. They see a rich guy who steps into an awesome metal suit, flies around the world killing bad guys, and then goes home to drink and bang hot women. Its awesome and they think its ok because he's a "superhero". That's as deep as their thoughts on the matter get.

All that being said, its not a fictional character's responsibility to raise a morally sound child.

Ok...no, no, no, no....AAAAAAAAAAAND no.

First of all Jonny 10 year old probably has parents who explain to him what's exceptable behavior and what isn't. He probably also goes to school. This kid has a brain in his head for which he chooses how to filter and associate things and how he's going to act. He also has a big mouth and talked with his parents who can teach him right from wrong.

This article is pure bull***** pretty much solely based on this comment:

"Today's superhero is too much like an action hero who participates in non-stop violence; he's aggressive, sarcastic, and rarely speaks to the virtue of doing good for humanity," she said.

"These men, like Iron Man"

Stop right there...Tony Stark stops manufactuing weapons for the good of humanity after seeing them up close and in the wrong hands. In reaction to this, the cost of his stock and company plummit. This is a MASSIVELY selfless act for the good of humanity. He then dons a suit of armor and throws himself into a war zone in Afganistan to save people...again, selfless.

Also...the movie does not glamorize his womanizing and boozing...it just shows it. There's is nothing in these movies showing these activities and saying "hey...this is a wonderful and good thing to do by the way!"

Look, the bottom line is images don't make us do things. We chose how we act. Impressionable kids do too and they have parents and school to help teach them good and bad. The rest is how they chose to react and it's not the fault of the image. It's personal responsibility.

 

[SpideyInATree]

It's not just that but in those days, things were a bit simpler. Over the decades society has gotten desensitized more and more and thus a lot of things people started to let slide, or they just "got used to it" and didn't care anymore. Back when they banned EC comics comics were considered tash by a lot of parents, it wasn't just people trying to get in the spotlight. With actual novels and literature out there, comics in that day and age were looked down upon.

Reminds me of that scene in Creepshow with the dad yelling at his son for reading the Creepshow comic and then throwing it in the trash. t:

Yeah, that is true. Things were different back in the '50's, much more simple times. However, the guy was on a witch hunt and he got the parents nice and scared. See...back then when parents actually watched their children and cared about what they were doing. Amazing!

It just kind of reminds me of that, with what this woman was trying to accomplish. It kills me that these people get a degree and then suddenly they are an expert on everything.

Tony Stark is a fictional character. Most of the kids, especially the younger ones, are having their parents TAKE THEM into the movie. If a child is THAT affected by the film it's the parents job to pick up the slack.

When I was seven years old I remember watching Terminator. FREAKIN' TERMINATOR! I thought it was the most awesome thing on the face of the earth. I had the unlimited imagination of a child and, thankfully, my father sat me down and explained that it's fiction. It's make believe. I got the talk that every parent, at least back in my day, gave their children about movies and television. It's make believe. The people REALLY don't die. Arnold really isn't a robot, kid! He's an actor. It was just for your entertainment. I turned out pretty well adjusted and I got to watch all the rated R movies I wanted as a kid because, guess what, I COULD HANDLE IT!

A lot of kids can't handle seeing rated R movies. Heck, some of these insane kids can't even handle PG-13 films it seems. It just sounds like the parents aren't there to pick up the slack and this misinformed psychologist is trying to "blame" superhero movies. Freakin' quack!!

 

[Spider-Who?]

"These men, like Iron Man, exploit women, flaunt bling and convey their manhood with high-powered guns."

Iron Man uses guns? i thought he used that repulsor ****, at any rate she needs to actually read the comics and understand the character as opposed to just looking at the pictures and immediately assume he's violent and what not

I (respectfully) really think you guys are missing the point.

She's not talking about the comics. Her point is about the movies. TV and movies are FAR more impressionable to a kid than a book (unfortunately), thanks to the extravagance of the sounds and visuals.

And since she's speaking on the movies, the entire history of a comic book character is moot. Its a lot easier for a kid to watch a high profile movie than to get his hands on +60 years of comic books.

And yes, Iron Man IS a violent character. All superheros are. Do they go around thwarting evil plans by handing out roses and heart shaped candy? No, they punch and shoot and hit and kick, which is a violent act, its "justification" notwithstanding.

Didn't you want to go out and fight bad guys after watching Power Rangers? Didn't you get into play fights with your friends, pretending to punch and kick and shot each other? I'm sure at least once, somebody really cold cocked another because they thought it was ok.

I thought you actually had to do research for psychologically, if she did just basic research she'd see Iron Man was created in the '60s and has had the same personality traits the entire time.

Again, she's talking about the movies, which are "modern". But even if she did read the comics, that point really wouldn't help. And in the comics of today ARE "modern" compared to yesteryear because they are made in the modern era.


Again, I'm not saying that I agree with whatever crusade she's trying to launch. I'm just acknowledging that yes, like ALL MEDIA, superhero comics/movies play a big part in a child's development and understanding of right and wrong, and that child's understanding can be skewed when those definitions themselves are foggy in whatever they happen to be watching.

 

[MadVillainy]

He was quoting the bad guy character from Kick Ass. If you watch that movie you'll get the context of the quote.

I actually saw the movie and completely forgot that line

 

[Spider-Who?]

Ok...no, no, no, no....AAAAAAAAAAAND no.

First of all Jonny 10 year old probably has parents who explain to him what's exceptable behavior and what isn't. He probably also goes to school. This kid has a brain in his head for which he chooses how to filter and associate things and how he's going to act. He also has a big mouth and talked with his parents who can teach him right from wrong.

Thats a pretty quaint view of the world you have there. Its a fact of life - kids, especially young ones, will try to copy something or someone they consider to be a "role model", which usually some character they see on tv. The seriousness of the action/words/etc that they're copying doesn't matter, but if the action is a negative one, they have no idea unless they're reprimanded or told not to. And the longer it takes for a bad action to be corrected, the harder it is for the notion of "oh, thats bad, i shouldn't do that" to kick in. Talk to any teacher or child psychologist and they will tell you this is true. Its a fact of life.

This article is pure bull***** pretty much solely based on this comment:

"Today's superhero is too much like an action hero who participates in non-stop violence; he's aggressive, sarcastic, and rarely speaks to the virtue of doing good for humanity," she said.

"These men, like Iron Man"

Stop right there...Tony Stark stops manufactuing weapons for the good of humanity after seeing them up close and in the wrong hands. In reaction to this, the cost of his stock and company plummit. This is a MASSIVELY selfless act for the good of humanity. He then dons a suit of armor and throws himself into a war zone in Afganistan to save people...again, selfless.

You'll see no argument from me concerning this.

Also...the movie does not glamorize his womanizing and boozing...it just shows it. There's is nothing in these movies showing these activities and saying "hey...this is a wonderful thing by the way!"

I'm not saying in anyway that the filmmakers' intent was to impregnate our youths mind with awful thoughts of one night stands and drunk driving. They might not have Tony Stark stop in mid thrust and say "Hey, kids! This is awesome!", but they sure don't show the down side of it. And please, the scene were the stripper pole comes down in the airplane and all the stewardess' are dancing for Tony is every guys' wet dream. They're showing that with power and wealth, you can have any woman you want, as much booze as you can swallow, and no one will tell you "No." (I'm fully aware its an important plot point and aspect of the character's growth, but kids dont understand that).

Look, the bottom line is images don't make us do things.

Agreed. But to deny the power that the printed word, film, etc has in terms of influencing people's out looks, opinions and actions would be absurd.

We chose how we act. Impressionable kids do too and they have parents and school to help teach them good and bad.

It would be wonderful if that were true with every child. But sadly, its not. And that number grows. And typically impressionable kids don't always know the correct choice to make. Hell, most ADULTS don't make the right choices, either. If what you are saying were true for everyone, then we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation, nor would there be any drugs, murder, prostitution, war, religious zealots, divorce, etc.

The rest is how they chose to react and it's not the fault of the image. It's personal responsibility.

First, I agree, fully, that its not the fault of the image. But most young kids (especially those who would be at a greater risk of being poorly influenced by what they see and hear) don't understand the concept of personal responsibility, especially if a true and proper role model is slacking or nonexistent. My mother is a kindergarten teacher, and last year, she taught a boy who repeatedly hit girls, cussed, and pulled his genitals out because his father was a wife beater, drunk, and watched porn with the kid in the room. Are you telling me that 5 year old kid should have known better, or that what he saw had no affect on his actions?

 

[Manic]

In fairness, action movies from every generation are packed with bad role models. That's why parents are supposed to teach their kids not to look at them as such. If a kid grows up mimicking the negative behavior they see in a movie, that's more the parents' fault than the movie's.