Superman 2 vs Batman Returns

[The Batman]

Which iconic sequel was the better film?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Batman Returns. Pretty much ties with The Dark Knight, not just as my favourite Batman movie but as my favourite superhero movie.

 

[-JKR-]

Batman Returns. Pretty much ties with The Dark Knight, not just as my favourite Batman movie but as my favourite superhero movie.

I pretty much share the same feelings.

 

[Rorschach2012]

2 of the best in the genre

but Batman Returns easily wins

 

[Lantern Venom]

Batman Returns is leaps and bounds better than Supes 2.

 

[SupermanFan]

Superman II easily for me.

I do like Batman Returns but the dialogue for the most part is atrocious, Batman is a supporting character & it’s a massive drop from the greatness of the first movie.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

'Batman Returns' all the way. I don't think Superman 2 has aged well.

 

[Filmfreak]

If it was the Donner cut it might have stood a chance. The Lester version is too cheesy and has some of the worst moments in all Superman films (the slapstick Metropolis opening, the S throw, the forget kiss etc). However, Batman Returns is better than both versions and still one of the best Batman movies.

 

[Boom]

Batman Returns.

 

[Binker]

While I do like both films, I'd pick BR because SII, which version are we talking about, then again, neither version serves as the ultimate version of SII, leaving it to fans to create their takes to fix it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Batman Returns and by some way, I am a bigger Supes than Batman fan, but the Reeve movies have all aged poorly for me, while the Burton movies have aged quite well.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Batman Returns. I love Superman II, but gotta give it to Batman Returns.

 

[WhoMani]

I would say that Zod is more memorable than Penguin was in Batman Returns but Batman Returns is the better movie imo.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Superman 2. It has its problems and the whole behind-the-scenes struggle will always make it controversial (just imagine if hashtags were around back then) but it's easily the better film of the two for me. I say that because it's actually ABOUT Superman. Batman Returns should have been called Catwoman and The Penguin, with Special Appearances by Batman and Christopher Walken. The Honest Trailer they did a little while ago pretty much nailed it in terms of my issues with the film. Pfeiffer was good in it and so was Keaton (with what little screentime he had) but all in all, it's one of the most disappointing sequels of all time for me, especially after how much I loved Batman '89 back then. That film hasn't aged as well as one would hope but I'd still watch B'89 another 20 times before I'd suffer through any of its abysmal sequels.

 

[B]

Tough choice, but for me Batman Returns edges it. As a few others have pointed out while Reeve's Superman films, particularly the first 2, are iconic & will always hold a special place in my heart, they have not aged well.. nor have Keaton's Batman films to be fair, however they've aged slightly better.

To this day, this particular version of this scene, I believe it's from Lester's version of the film not Donner's, is still one of my favourite superhero 'dramatic return/entrance' moments from any superhero film -

 

[Wheels]

The Donner Cut is better than Batman Returns but the Lester cut isn't.

Hell, The Donner Cut of Superman II is my favorite Superman movie.

 

[Frodo]

Superman 2 . No contest for me.

It had a better story, better villains, The Hero's struggle was the focus, the love story was much stronger, and they balanced all the moving parts much better than BR.

I don't even think of them in the same league. They both have their campy moments and they're both flawed in their own ways.

That said, for me, Superman 2 is near the top of the genre in general along with STM, Spiderman 2, X2, Batman 89, TDK, Avengers etc. Not saying its number one, but its in the top 20 at least.

Batman Returns has never been in that league for me. Its been more in the second tier, though it moves further down as the films in the genre have gotten better.

Maybe in the 90s and early 00's I would have ranked it higher, but by this point, so many films in the genre have surpassed it, that its difficult for me to place it anywhere near films like Superman 2.

Catwoman is the best thing about it imo, and that portrayal is iconic along with Julie Newmar's Catwoman.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Superman 2 . No contest for me.

It had a better story, better villains, The Hero's struggle was the focus, the love story was much stronger, and they balanced all the moving parts much better than BR.

I don't even think of them in the same league. They both have their campy moments and they're both flawed in their own ways.

That said, for me, Superman 2 is near the top of the genre in general along with STM, Spiderman 2, X2, Batman 89, TDK, Avengers etc. Not saying its number one, but its in the top 20 at least.

Batman Returns has never been in that league for me. Its been more in the second tier, though it moves further down as the films in the genre have gotten better.

Maybe in the 90s and early 00's I would have ranked it higher, but by this point, so many films in the genre have surpassed it, that its difficult for me to place it anywhere near films like Superman 2.

Catwoman is the best thing about it imo, and that portrayal is iconic along with Julie Newmar's Catwoman.

Yeah, I’ve never thought very highly of BR; Catwoman was pretty good (even though I hated what they did with her origin) but the rest of it? I don’t really see why people view it so fondly. I remember back when it came out, my friends and I were really excited to see it and then once we did, we were kinda just baffled by some of Burton’s bizarre choices. Giving the Penguin a clown army of psychos was a strange thing to do and seemed like an idea he had left over for the Joker but didn’t know how to fit it into the previous movie. And while 2016 proved that people will be stupid enough to vote for a disgusting sexual predator with zero government experience and really bad skin in an election, buying the Penguin in his dirty thermal underwear as a viable mayoral candidate was a stretch.

And the Penguin Commandoes were a total jump-the-shark moment. People who complained about the third act problems in The Dark Knight Roses or Wonder Woman had better never try to defend Batman Returns. Talk about one of the worst endings In a CBM that I’ve seen. First, Penguin TELLS the people at that party that he’s going around kidnapping all their children, and yet we don’t see ANY of them rushing out to save their kids. Then when that gets foiled, you have the commandoes, which were mind-controlled I think? They were so campy and stupid, they were rightfully mocked for years in popular comic book publications like Wizard back then. And of course, there’s Bruce Wayne’s magically disappearing eye makeup when he rips off his mask.

Ugh. The more I think of it, the more I dislike that movie.

 

[B]

The Donner Cut is better than Batman Returns but the Lester cut isn't.

Hell, The Donner Cut of Superman II is my favorite Superman movie.

I didn't like The Donner Cut of Superman 2 at all, I couldn't actually believe that's what all the talk & hype had been about for all those years with all the petitions & pleas for WB/DC to release it. It's very reminiscent of what's going on now with this Snyder cut rigmarole.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I didn't like The Donner Cut of Superman 2 at all, I couldn't actually believe that's what all the talk & hype had been about for all those years with all the petitions & pleas for WB/DC to release it. It's very reminiscent of what's going on now with this Snyder cut rigmarole.

Yeah I tried watching it once and turned it off. It just wasn’t working for me at all.

 

[B]

Yeah I tried watching it once and turned it off. It just wasn’t working for me at all.

I bought it but I was very disappointed, I can't actually remember it vividly anymore because it's been years since I've seen it but I thought some of the scenes that exist in both cuts were actually made worse with Donner's footage.

The whole thing seemed unfinished, maybe if he'd been allowed to finish it originally it would have been better. Despite the problems with the Lester cut like the throwing & the memory kiss to name but a few, I still prefer his version.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I bought it but I was very disappointed, I can't actually remember it vividly anymore because it's been years since I've seen it but I thought some of the scenes that exist in both cuts were actually made worse with Donner's footage.

The whole thing seemed unfinished, maybe if he'd been allowed to finish it originally it would have been better. Despite the problems with the Lester cut like the throwing & the memory kiss to name but a few, I still prefer his version.

Yeah, I suppose it’s not totally fair to blame Donner for the poor scenes in that version because he may have scrapped some of the stuff that didn’t work in the end, had he been able to finish it. But as it stands... I just didn’t like what I saw. The Lester cut has its moments like the ones you mentioned, and Luthor’s jailbreak is slapstick stupid, but it still has a lot of charm and Reeve in particular really shines in it.

 

[Batmannerism]

Tough choice, but for me Batman Returns edges it. As a few others have pointed out while Reeve's Superman films, particularly the first 2, are iconic & will always hold a special place in my heart, they have not aged well.. nor have Keaton's Batman films to be fair, however they've aged slightly better.

To this day, this particular version of this scene, I believe it's from Lester's version of the film not Donner's, is still one of my favourite superhero 'dramatic return/entrance' moments from any superhero film -

Totally agree with all of that. Batman Returns starts strong, and IMO Michelle Pfeiffer is just magic - but the whole child catcher thing in the 3rd act is just weird.

The key issue, as above is that Returns has aged better than Superman 2. In defense of the first 2 Superman films, they were made in the late 1970s, so film technology really wasn't up to the task of showcasing Superman's powers - and the tone of films was a little more campy than today.

Love that clip of Superman's reappearance. It is the Lester version - because in the Donner version he says something really lame " General, haven't you heard about the freedom of the press ?"

Totally agree about the Donner cut - no disrespect to the guy, Superman the Movie is magic and Donner has directed some great films....but his cut of Superman 2 is an unfinished mess that doesn't hold together.

I have always been skeptical of the whole "Director's cut" thing. Sometimes the excessive parts of a Director's grand vision actually make a film worse. I strongly doubt the mythological Snyder cut of Justice League is going to change it from a mediocre film into a good one - although I will admit the longer cut of Watchmen was better than the theatrical release.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Superman II has some stupid nonsense, but it is mostly better sorted out and handled in the story side of things.

 

[Tg11]

Superman 2 is a classic like how is it not getting more votes