Superman's power level

[Marvin]

Ironman, with the help of droids(I'm sure if asked, Tony Stark of all people could muster them up after the events of IM2), could have handled that invasion on his own. Especially if he considered the nuke option earlier. (the real difficulty would have been closing the portal).

Cap/Thor and the rest of them really were just around for cool moments..but I digress.


Something I love about Zack Snyder is that he actually follows source material(obviously watchmen's ending needed changing). His casting and characterization are good examples of this. Unlike say a Nolan, who isn't using the current batman in his films, or a raimi, who's spidey was..different.

I expect Snyder to really take note of Superman true strength level/speed level etc.

Last I check, superman could lift the great pyramid.

 

[Blue Sugar]

Well this is not like 300 or Watchmen where he adapted an existing story. Here he will have to tell a new one, so the source-material is as vast as every story ever told about Superman. Plus of course the hopefully all new things they bring to the table.

I want Snyder's Superman, I don't want current comics Superman. Just like Nolan's Batman is great in his own way and context, without having to be a boring carbon copy of his comic-book version.

 

[BigThor]

Yeah Hulk was definately uber strong in The Avengers, seriously did people not see that epic punch that stopped the first leviathan?

I think Thor could've handled the chitauri by himself as well, he took out the most aliens and they never even landed an attack on him.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Yeah Hulk was definately uber strong in The Avengers, seriously did people not see that epic punch that stopped the first leviathan?

I think Thor could've handled the chitauri by himself as well, he took out the most aliens and they never even landed an attack on him.

Yep, Thor too. It's why I thought the threat (The Chitauri) was bantam and limited. I never felt The Avengers were in any trouble.

While I want Superman to perform amazing feats, I also want Superman to struggle in his battles with Zod and his loyal soldiers. I don't want the win to appear easy at all.

 

[antonydelfini]

Yep, Thor too. It's why I thought the threat (The Chitauri) was bantam and limited. I never felt The Avengers were in any trouble.

While I want Superman to perform amazing feats, I also want Superman to struggle in his battles with Zod and his loyal soldiers. I don't want the win to appear easy at all.

Really? Although Thor and Hulk are stronger than the army, its the sheer number of the army that makes them formidable. They just kept coming and coming, and that's why the gate needed to be closed. Thor is the only Avenger who didn't struggle with the Chitauri, even Hulk was overwhelmed towards the end, so was Iron Man before he flew to the missile, Cap was almost killed, Hawkeye barely escaped from them as well. So the claim that they weren't in trouble sounds strange to me.

 

[BigThor]

Really? Although Thor and Hulk are stronger than the army, its the sheer number of the army that makes them formidable. They just kept coming and coming, and that's why the gate needed to be closed. Thor is the only Avenger who didn't struggle with the Chitauri, even Hulk was overwhelmed towards the end, so was Iron Man before he flew to the missile, Cap was almost killed, Hawkeye barely escaped from them as well. So the claim that they weren't in trouble sounds strange to me.

Yeah if Black Widow didn't close the portal I'm pretty sure the Avengers would've eventually been overwhelmed.

They basically just fought the first wave of the invasion, they're were still a huge number of soldiers that never even made it through the portal.

 

[The Morningstar]

Hulk was shot to **** and was clearly in pain when he saw Stark fly up to the portal. I think that segment towards the end of the battle really showed that although the Avengers were fighting gallantly, it was getting too much for them.

Anyway yea Supes. I think what i've read and heard so far is good. Applying some real world logic, in terms of physics, is a good thing. As long as they don't go too far and become pedantic.

 

[elgaz]

Forgetting Superman's raw physical power, what about his intelligence?

I'd like - for once - for a live action Superman to be depicted as being above normal human intelligence/IQ. That's something I don't think we ever really saw in previous films. Both the Reeve and Routh incarnations, as good as they were, never really came across as being vastly more intelligent than the average human. It's similar in effect to how some people feel that the Batman films (both Burton and Nolan) haven't done testament to his title as the world's 'greatest detective'.

The reason I bring it up was while watching Superman/Doomsday last night (the animated one), there's a scene where Superman expresses frustration at how he can do some pretty amazing things, but he still struggles to find a cure for human cancer, despite intensive research using technology at the Fortress. He doesn't just want to be a strongman - he wants to use his knowledge as well as his physical powers.

Asides from the animated series, Superman has been depicted in many other incarnations as being extremely intelligent, with a photographic memory, etc.

Kryptonians are evolved beyond humans, so it stands to reason their brainpower will be equally evolved. For someone to be able to move at speeds beyond human perception, and for their brain to be able to process and react to information at this speed, we have to assume their brain can work at a similar pace when tackling problems which take us much longer to think about.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Really? Although Thor and Hulk are stronger than the army, its the sheer number of the army that makes them formidable. They just kept coming and coming, and that's why the gate needed to be closed. Thor is the only Avenger who didn't struggle with the Chitauri, even Hulk was overwhelmed towards the end, so was Iron Man before he flew to the missile, Cap was almost killed, Hawkeye barely escaped from them as well. So the claim that they weren't in trouble sounds strange to me.

How is it strange? It's an opinion that has been stated perfusely, and a very reasonable one. I've watched the film three times now, and even the great God of Mischief [Loki] was dispensed of effortlessly via thrashing from The Hulk.

I'm sorry, but I never thought The Avengers were in any trouble during the invasion. The Chitauri army felt too droid-like. I honestly believe had the portal remained opened, Hulk, Iron Man and Thor would have wiped out or placed The Chitauri on the endangered species list by sun down.

The suspense involving the numbers-gain wasn't handled well, in my opinion. Take a look at Matrix: Revolutions or Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. Now that's how you handle the numbers-gain. Like I stated though, that's just me (and several others) who believed The Chitauri were a minuscule threat.

 

[The Guard]

The whole "Is he stronger in MAN OF STEEL than in SUPERMAN RETURNS" will probably only be solved if he lifts something larger than a small continent. Routh's Superman was pretty darn strong.

 

[Marvin]

The whole "Is he stronger in MAN OF STEEL than in SUPERMAN RETURNS" will probably only be solved if he lifts something larger than a small continent. Routh's Superman was pretty darn strong.

The direction of that film was just disproportional and inconsistent is more like it. At points he would struggle and at other points he wouldn't. There are some who would say that was merely a sun supercharged superman lifting that land mass at the end. I say to them...so in Singers mind/world all superman needs to be to enter "sun dipped superman" power levels is fly above the sky line(something I'm sure he never does, even in that film))? Like I said inconsistent.

Now I'm sure MOS will be weaker, the more modern the incarnation the weaker. Just seems that's the trend. Plus it will make for more conflict and drama by my estimation.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Routh's Superman was essentially omnipotent. He lifted a country sized hunk of Kryptonite around 80 miles into space with another piece wedged into his chest.

I'd rather see Superman lower powered so he can be more visceral in his battle with Zod and co.

 

[The Morningstar]

It's because Superman Returns was a rehash of Donner's Superman, who was Pre Crisis Superman, who could pull powers out of his ass to fit the plot.

There is a reason the Crisis happened.

 

[Marvin]

Lifting a car over his head is something spiderman uses two arms for.
...singer.

 

[BigThor]

Routh's Superman was essentially omnipotent. He lifted a country sized hunk of Kryptonite around 80 miles into space with another piece wedged into his chest.

I'd rather see Superman lower powered so he can be more visceral in his battle with Zod and co.

I'm with you on that, I'd rather see Superman use his powers cleverly in battle more than SR's "oh look here, I can lift heavy things".

Having a character's power level lowered is not always a bad thing, because in SR ol' Supes could pretty much do whatever he wanted.

 

[Marvin]

Imagining an avengers film with the same direction of Returns.

-Heroes all but mumble to themselves(as opposed to what Joss had them saying)
-Villain(Loki) grabs some human henchmen and proceeds to acquire some social economic profit.(and kill the heroes to it's not all bs granted)
-Hero(s) spend half the film pursuing love interest from a patient distance
-Hero(s) save a public craft with love interest and 6 people on board(yes and baseball stadium)
-Villain de-powers heroes and has goons stomp them then drown them, only to be saved by love interest(s)
-Heroes lift killer land mass into space.
-Heroes spend last 20min in hospital ward.

...and people say that film wasn't made to loose money.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I felt more tension and danger in the Hellcarrier attack than the entirety of the final battle (even if more spectacular). I not even once felt the Avengers were in danger during the Chitauri attack or even those big transformer creature things. More importantly, I never felt the citizens were in danger because we hardly even saw them in danger, and the reluctance to show any human collateral damage also weakened the threat level. They relegated that to news clips.

 

[The Morningstar]

Well you just have to put 2 and 2 together. Civilians definitely died with all the buildings getting levelled and strafing runs on the streets. You don't need to see civilians burning to death or getting blown up, and you probably couldn't see that in a PG-13 film.

 

[GreenKToo]

I felt more tension and danger in the Hellcarrier attack than the entirety of the final battle (even if more spectacular). I not even once felt the Avengers were in danger during the Chitauri attack or even those big transformer creature things. More importantly, I never felt the citizens were in danger because we hardly even saw them in danger, and the reluctance to show any human collateral damage also weakened the threat level. They relegated that to news clips.

Agreed. Some folks may not like the idea of it in a Superman film, but if you really want a feeling of ''doom and gloom'' when Zod attacks, then showing or having news-casters report thosands of civilian causualties will make it more realistic.
There is no way two superpowered beings could fight without hundreds/thousands of people nearby getting injured or killed, especially so in a large city.
I somehow doubt Zod will be kind enough to wait for the city to be evacuated.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

When you constantly talk about war with a serious look on your face, not showing the ultimate consequence of one does disservice to the term. Plus, film is a visual medium; sure I put two and two together, but without any visuals to convey it, there was little tension when the climax came.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I dont want Superman to be realistic per say. I want everything AROUND him to be as believable as possible in order for it to FEEL real for the bigger awe-inspiring impact.
That means the world around him including the "science" of picking up a truck so it actually looks like a 15.000 pound truck and not a plastic toy. Superman should not be affected by that, but the car probably would be by its own weight.

You hit the nail on the head.

Hulk's strength was not lowered by any measure, in my opinion. No way. The Hulk, from what I saw, could handle the entire Chitauri Army by himself (with perhaps Iron Man aiding in air support).

So either the invaders were fragile brainless drones or Hulk was the superior being (in terms of strength) in the Milky Way Galaxy, at the time. I think it's a combination of both but Ima take the latter.

After what Hulk did to the first Leviathan he faced, I don't know how anyone could think he was not in the comic book realm of power. Those things must have been well over 300 tons.

Some of you know me as a hardcore Hulk fan, but I do want them to get this film correct. I truly believe if people are going to empathize with Superman, the special effects and action sequences should be Fleischer-like. Supermen walking into 50 caliber bullets and not blinking does not resonate on any emotional or real level with people in general. Gnats can't harm us, but they can annoy the hell out of you, especially when they get around your eyes. Sure it looks cool to a comic book fan...but it will destroy the franchise.

 

[The Morningstar]

Hulk couldn't take the whole Chitauri army. That part where they had him pinned down and like, 100 ships started firing on him, he was in trouble. You could see he was in pain when he looked up at Stark with the missile.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Hulk couldn't take the whole Chitauri army. That part where they had him pinned down and like, 100 ships started firing on him, he was in trouble. You could see he was in pain when he looked up at Stark with the missile.

I'm not going to turn this into a Hulk thread...but you know the story...the madder Hulk gets the stronger he gets and there is no limit to his anger. He had a bloody nose but he was fine by the time he caught IM seconds later.

What's your thoughts on the Man of Steel. Do you prefer Superman as a non emotional physical threat or do you think he should show be closer to the Fleischer animation shorts?

 

[The Morningstar]

My point is i thought just before the nuke was fired the film showed that the Avengers were starting to get overwhelmed. Hawkeye was out of arrows and had to make a daring escape from his "nest" and was injured. Cap took a blast to the gut. Stark was getting surrounding and shot to ****. Hulk got utterly blasted.

As for Supes? I've said before, something around God Neo levels. Hypersonic flight speed and reflexes, easily class 100 strength. Give him Hulk level durability.

But the key thing is consistency. His power level needs to be consistent. None of this Pre Crisis ******** where his powers are whatever the plot dictates. That's lazy writing.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

While it appeared that way, it just didn't feel like it. There was no part for me where The Avengers were being overwhelmed by The Chitauri at all, especially with Hulk, Thor and Iron Man kicking ass and taking names. The thought of The Avengers possibly losing the war never crossed my mind.

Loki and The Leviathans were no match for The Hulk himself. It didn't matter if he was getting blasted because he's known to being able to take severe punishment.