The Dark Knight Rises Talia for Batman 3?

[The Major]

Nolan has set her up beautifully in Batman Begins. With or without a return of Ra's.

They don't even have to make her Ra's daughter to work. Just a dedicated cult member of the League of Shadows who was another student he had a close relationship with.

 

[chaseter]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

 

[Fanticon]

I'm more for this than I am for Catwoman...it can work.

 

[d-roc]

Nolan has set her up beautifully in Batman Begins. With or without a return of Ra's.

They don't even have to make her Ra's daughter to work. Just a dedicated cult member of the League of Shadows who was another student he had a close relationship with.

I hope you are willing to give credit where credit is due. I came up with that idea in other threads. I don't want to be a glory hog, but I do pride myself on having good ideas every now and then.

Read Batman 3 title thread and what would you do if you were Nolan for the next movie thread.

 

[The Major]

I hope you are willing to give credit where credit is due. I came up with that idea in other threads. I don't want to be a glory hog, but I do pride myself on having good ideas every now and then.

Sorry, if its any use I don't read the Batman forum very much and I didn't read your idea before I posted it.

I apologize in any case.

Read Batman 3 title thread and what would you do if you were Nolan for the next movie thread.

Okay.

 

[d-roc]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

I do agree with Tahlia in Bat-3 because she is the most logical femme fatale. Catwoman is too predictable and doesn't fit.

I'd call it Shadow of the Bat

It would be about facing your inner demons

Tahlia Al Ghul - Femme Fatale / Represents the League of Shadows, ready to avenge her father's death and finish what he started, which was to destroy Gotham.

Penguin - Mob boss who seizes the opportunity to take over Gotham's underbelly.

Two-Face - The reason the League of Shadows is back and on Batman's tale. Much like the Scarecrow was on the League's payroll, so is Two-Face as he discovers how to take Gotham down for good. He also plots to destroy Batman by making him fall in love with Tahlia only to find out she is going to kill him. Sweet revenge for a lover scorned as Two-Face makes Batman pay like he did when Rachel Dawes died.

Batman always has a balancing act to perform because at every choice lies an unexpected outcome. If he fixes something here, something else will rear it's ugly head over there. Can he continue to strike fear in the hearts of his foes and have them not react to it. I think that question was answered in TDK with the Joker. Can he continue to take on a persona that is deeper and darker and bigger than himself and still come out on the other side? That remains to be seen...

Are you truly redeemed if you don't forgive yourself?

 

[az824]

double post

 

[az824]

sorry, talia would come off as a very stupid character in the audience's eyes. Nolan failed to mention her or make any nods to her in Batman Begins, the closest we got was that Ra's had a wife long ago.

how would it look to the public who dont know of her if a random woman showed up and said that she was the daughter of the villain in the first movie?

to me that would seem stupid, soap opera like, unoriginal and unrealistic. plus if she were trying to return to destroy gotham it would seem redundant

and how does Catwoman not fit? she is one of the most realistic characters in the Batman universe

and of course she's predictable, she's been superglued to the Batman mythos. any Batman mythos should include 3 characters (at least) Alfred, Joker and Catwoman. She's been the only consistent love and interest and her popularity is second only to Joker

 

[The Major]

sorry, talia would come off as a very stupid character in the audience's eyes. Nolan failed to mention her or make any nods to her in Batman Begins, the closest we got was that Ra's had a wife long ago.

It's unfortunate but hardly difficult to fix.

how would it look to the public who dont know of her if a random woman showed up and said that she was the daughter of the villain in the first movie?

She doesn't have to be Ra's daughter for Talia to work.

She could be another one of his prize students who was doing other things with her own squad when Ra's attacks Gotham with his crew.

They could develop her relationship with Ra's in flashbacks or non-linear scenes like they did to Batman with the first movie. They could have her meet Bruce in these when he's training.

When Ra's dies she could assume the role since she could be the second in command of the organization. Only instead of using the entire Ra's al Ghul rank she keeps her first name but puts "al Ghul" at the end.

to me that would seem stupid, soap opera like, unoriginal and unrealistic. plus if she were trying to return to destroy gotham it would seem redundant

They don't need to destroy Gotham. It could simply be a revenge deal.

and how does Catwoman not fit? she is one of the most realistic characters in the Batman universe

Talia would fit in Nolan's universe because he's already laid some groundwork for her to appear with Ra's. With Catwoman they'd have to start from scratch.

and of course she's predictable, she's been superglued to the Batman mythos. any Batman mythos should include 3 characters (at least) Alfred, Joker and Catwoman.

Nolan's movies are anything but predictable. His first movie didn't have any A-list villains in it at all and he was able to create a great movie with them.

We've already had one movie where the two of them had a relationship. This could be Talia's.

The Catwoman movie damaged her reputation, as well.

She's been the only consistent love and interest and her popularity is second only to Joker

Talia's been a love interest. Just not as long. I'd say she's the second connected to Bruce. They've even managed to have a child together in the comics.

 

[az824]

yeah after she got him dozed with something so that he didnt really know what he was doing

and to include Talia and ignore the fact that her father is Ra's would be bad

 

[The Major]

yeah after she got him dozed with something so that he didnt really know what he was doing

I didn't say she had his consent.

and to include Talia and ignore the fact that her father is Ra's would be bad

Considering how much they altered Ra's this isn't that big a change for her.

Talia doesn't need to be blood related for him to care about her like a daughter, either.

 

[elgato]

As much as I love the character and she could easily be played by Rachel Weisz or Mia Maestro...

UGH!!! I mean, why using Talia Al Ghul? if it's a character that anyone from the general public know and you already have Selina Kyle who is the most important woman in Batman mythos!!!! Tho a cat fight between both would be aweeeesome

 

[The Major]

As much as I love the character and she could easily be played by Rachel Weisz or Mia Maestro...

Nice choices for the role.

UGH!!! I mean, why using Talia Al Ghul?

She is an interesting villain.

She's connected to Ra's from Batman Begins.

She could take Batman down a darker path now he's on the run from the law then Catwoman.

She's never appeared in a big budget film before.

It's better Nolan use her then Justice League.

if it's a character that anyone from the general public know

The general public never knew Ra's existed before Batman Begins. Scarecrow wasn't much better.

It worked fine.

and you already have Selina Kyle who is the most important woman in Batman mythos!!!!

She's already had her turn in film. Talia could appear here if Nolan wants to use her.

Tho a cat fight between both would be aweeeesome

 

[elgato]

Selina Kyle didn't had her chance in a film, Patience Phillips had what I mean is that CINO (Catwoman in name only) didn't even included the true catwoman, I just think Catwoman is better than Talia, tho as I said before, both in a film would be sweet (anyone remember hush?)

 

[The Major]

Selina Kyle didn't had her chance in a film,

She did in Batman Returns.

Patience Phillips had what I mean is that CINO (Catwoman in name only) didn't even included the true catwoman,

I don't count that as a Catwoman movie. It barely rates as a movie, period.

I just think Catwoman is better than Talia, tho as I said before, both in a film would be sweet

Normally I'd agree with you, but I just see Talia fitting Nolan's universe at this stage before Selina.

Though if Talia and Catwoman both show up at some point in Nolan's films I'll be happy.

(anyone remember hush?)

Hush was okay. It was overrated IMO. They should have just called it Batman Team-Up Only Everyone Forgets Batgirl Exists.

 

[flickchick85]

While I see that Talia may be more likely, I think she's less interesting than Catwoman, so I'd much rather see Selina. But yes, I agree that Talia could be a logical addition for Nolan's trilogy (if that's what he's making).

Thematically, though, I can see how Catwoman could be a very logical next step in the story, so I've still got my fingers crossed that it'll go that way.

 

[TheVileOne]

I would love to see a good Talia story, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Melkay]

Okay, I agree with EVERYTHING az824 said. I was gona say every one of those arguments, except the sopa opera thing... which you gotta admit is pretty spot on.

Thalia was NOT introduced in Batman Begins... she's not even connected to it. Her existence was NOT EVEN implied. Ra's was in it, and he's dead now. To make her show up now is an example of cheap storytelling and poor planning ahead, somethign the public dislikes very much.

Besides, to make her something else than Ra's daughter is wrong. Much of her strength as character stems from the fact that she is Ra's Al Ghul's daughter. If she's not related to him, she has no point whatsoever. It's even worse than showing Harley Quinn but not the Joker.

If she's just a League member, what is she in movie for? Because she's hot? I don't even like her in the comics, I find her motivations towards Batman... Extremely Corny. If we just want to see a hot dangerous girl, let's give the opportunity to a better character. Let's give the opportunity to Catwoman.

Having something related to the League again is getting redundant. TDK was an extraordinary film without any mention of the League Of Shadows. B3 can be that way too.

 

[Melkay]

sorry, talia would come off as a very stupid character in the audience's eyes. Nolan failed to mention her or make any nods to her in Batman Begins, the closest we got was that Ra's had a wife long ago.

how would it look to the public who dont know of her if a random woman showed up and said that she was the daughter of the villain in the first movie?

to me that would seem stupid, soap opera like, unoriginal and unrealistic. plus if she were trying to return to destroy gotham it would seem redundant

and how does Catwoman not fit? she is one of the most realistic characters in the Batman universe

and of course she's predictable, she's been superglued to the Batman mythos. any Batman mythos should include 3 characters (at least) Alfred, Joker and Catwoman. She's been the only consistent love and interest and her popularity is second only to Joker

Bravo.

 

[Two-Face]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

I do agree with Tahlia in Bat-3 because she is the most logical femme fatale. Catwoman is too predictable and doesn't fit.

What do you mean Selina doesn't fit?


1. She has a costume a bit like Batman.

2. Bruce Wayne/Batman Selina Kyle/Catwoman relationship it's a like they bound to be together.

3. She has no superpowers like Batman.

4. Selina hasn't lived thousand of years like Talia.

But I'm not saying Talia doesn't if you take out Lazarus Pit stuff and cast someone that is could be Liam Neeson's daughter.

 

[Melkay]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

I do agree with Tahlia in Bat-3 because she is the most logical femme fatale. Catwoman is too predictable and doesn't fit.

After reading this, I have three possible theories:

1) You're a troll.

2) You donate much of your time to the mentally challenged.

3) You're on crack.

And since I pressume you're neither a troll nor an idiot (Same thing) then I'd like to have some of that stuff you're smoking, cuz' it's gotta be gooood....

When you say "femme fatale" right after "logical" aren't you admitting that Thalia is the most predictable of the two?

Oh no, of course, she's unpredictable. Of course, we already know she's a member of the League of Shadows... she's attracted to Batman.... she's Ra's daughter... she's hot....... but there's still a world of possibilities with her character, right?

Right?

Not right.

She's probably the most predictable character of the comics.

What the hell, even Gordon is more unpredictable than her.

Catwoman can have any background we want. And she's as realist as we can get... she's just a Cat-burglar after all. And if there's something unpredictable out there... that's she. At least she's ambiguous enough to prevent Batman from ever figuring her out.

And Catwoman can be properly introduced in this film...
... as opposed to "I'm the daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, the man that died two films ago and never mentioned me or even implied my mere existence" Thalia.

Wanna make a soap opera? Bring Thalia.
Wanna make a film? Bring Selina.

 

[Melkay]

^ Oh, and don't do this -> . It's annoying.

 

[Gianakin_]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

I do agree with Tahlia in Bat-3 because she is the most logical femme fatale. Catwoman is too predictable and doesn't fit.

Wasn't Joker one of THE most predictable aspects of TDK (in the sense that we knew it was gonna be him)? I know I'm exaggerating since he was setup at the end of BB, but still.

And how would Catwoman not fit? Talia could serve some purposes (mostly cinematical, ie. the no3 of a trilogy harkens back to no1, in some aspects), but now that Batman's on the run, his dynamic with Catwoman could never have more potential:

He serves justice, despite its instruments (ie. cops) being after him. She serves her interests. He tries to make the right choice by hunting her, but he also falls in love with her, knowing that he found someone who, unlike Rachel, "gets" it. Catwoman gets how Batman feels when he's doing his thing behind a mask.
But at the same time she's doing the wrong thing. So, she's an outlaw. Batman tries to bring her in, but he's also an outlaw. Her very presence poses him a dilemma.

 

[d-roc]

I'm not saying I don't like Catwoman. I just don't agree with making her the next choice. I would like to see Tahlia because we haven't seen her in a movie yet and because of her romantic interest in Bruce Wayne.

I'm tired of seeing bad interpretations of Catwoman on film.

 

[Gianakin_]

Fair enough. I take it you didn't like Burton's version, huh?