Thanos = This Generation's Darth Vader

[TraditionalHero]

Thanos had the benefit of being a pre-existing character with several decades worth of lore and his own cult following. Not to mention he had been built up over several years as the "big bad" of what was already a massively popular film franchise.

Vader was a completely unknown creation before Star Wars and instantly became a sensation from his first introduction.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, Vader as a specific character did not exist prior to Star Wars, but he drew on quite a well of established themes and imagery from existing pop culture sources. Black knights and evil wizards were not exactly unknown archetypes, not even when applied in a space fantasy context.

Conversely, I wouldn't over-exaggerate the benefits for Thanos, in terms of being a pre-existing character. To the vast majority of the audience, he was as much an unknown as Vader.

 

[Boy Scout]

I don’t think he’ll reach the level of Vader, but I do think he’ll be remembered as one of the greats.

 

[TraditionalHero]

Eh, Vader as a specific character did not exist prior to Star Wars, but he drew on quite a well of established themes and imagery from existing pop culture sources. Black knights and evil wizards were not exactly unknown archetypes, not even when applied in a space fantasy context.

Conversely, I wouldn't over-exaggerate the benefits for Thanos, in terms of being a pre-existing character. To the vast majority of the audience, he was as much an unknown as Vader.

Sure maybe in 2012 but not in 2018. By the time he made his entrance in full everyone was already waiting in anticipation to see what he was about. He had already been built up over several years and had multiple cameos in other popular films.

Vader had no such introduction but you knew he was an evil mofo from the moment you saw him. Yes that has a lot to do with his design but that only speaks to the brilliance of that design, and just one of the many reasons why I think Vader is the superior villain of the two. Star Wars brilliantly communicates not only the power and authority of Vader, but the evil as well... and they accomplish this in 5 seconds without him having to say a single word.

When you factor in how Thanos was introduced, he actually has more in common with the Emperor. Yes the Emperor was a great villain all on his own, but he also had the benefit of being introduced a film prior as Vader's master. That blew everyone's mind. Vader was the most evil dude there was and yet he took orders from someone higher. That helped lay the foundation for the Emperor to succeed in a huge way.

 

[jmc]

I kinda think Endgame nerfed Thanos.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Wasn't he already nerfed? Him succeeding in IW was partly due to the heroes being disorganized.

 

[Boy Scout]

I’m not familiar with his strength level in the comics, but as far as the MCU is concerned, I look at it as a testament to how strong the heroes are together than how weak Thanos is as an antagonist.

 

[metaphysician]

Actual discussion from last night.

"So, question for the table. Is Thanos the Darth Vader of this generation?"

"Hmm. . . no, not really. He was practically the first thing seen in Star Wars, and then despite knowing nothing about him, the series was all about him. He got more ties to the cast, a redemption arc, an origin. . ."

"Huh. So what your saying is, *Loki* is the Darth Vader of this generation?"

". . . yeah, pretty much."

 

[Filmfreak]

Personally speaking I loved Thanos in Infinity War but I think Endgame left a very sour taste of the character to even have this conversation. Of course, it didn't affect other people so obviously my personal opinion doesn't say all that much. I aggree, though, as others have said, that it is way to early to know. We'll have to wait and see how he stands the test of time.

 

[Abudefduf]

Nah, you're right. I'd say Endgame just ensured that Thanos won't be this generation's Vader.

 

[Iceman]

I’m not familiar with his strength level in the comics, but as far as the MCU is concerned, I look at it as a testament to how strong the heroes are together than how weak Thanos is as an antagonist.

Yeah, without Luke there was no hope in Star Wars. But there are many big hitters who were needed and banded together to deal with Thanos.

 

[Iceman]

Nah, you're right. I'd say Endgame just ensured that Thanos won't be this generation's Vader.

And that’s even before Jake Lloyd and Hayden get a shot at playing Thanos in his backstory!

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Sure maybe in 2012 but not in 2018. By the time he made his entrance in full everyone was already waiting in anticipation to see what he was about. He had already been built up over several years and had multiple cameos in other popular films.

Vader had no such introduction but you knew he was an evil mofo from the moment you saw him. Yes that has a lot to do with his design but that only speaks to the brilliance of that design, and just one of the many reasons why I think Vader is the superior villain of the two. Star Wars brilliantly communicates not only the power and authority of Vader, but the evil as well... and they accomplish this in 5 seconds without him having to say a single word.

When you factor in how Thanos was introduced, he actually has more in common with the Emperor. Yes the Emperor was a great villain all on his own, but he also had the benefit of being introduced a film prior as Vader's master. That blew everyone's mind. Vader was the most evil dude there was and yet he took orders from someone higher. That helped lay the foundation for the Emperor to succeed in a huge way.

As someone who loves Vader I have to say that I don't think he's that special in ANH. It's in ESB that he rises to real greatness.

What's mind-blowing about that Vader has a master? Vader looks subordinate to Tarkin (as Tarkin makes all the big decisions and gives Vader an order) in the first film and the latter also mentions that there is an emperor, which is obviously the title of the leader of the Empire as a whole. Vader has consistently been the top enforcer of the Empire in all the films in my view.

 

[Tony Stark]

As someone who loves Vader I have to say that I don't think he's that special in ANH. It's in ESB that he rises to real greatness.

What's mind-blowing about that Vader has a master? Vader looks subordinate to Tarkin (as Tarkin makes all the big decisions and gives Vader an order) in the first film and the latter also mentions that there is an emperor, which is obviously the title of the leader of the Empire as a whole. Vader has consistently been the top enforcer of the Empire in all the films in my view.

I totally agree with you. In ANH Vader is a henchman, it's really Empire where he becomes the Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

[TraditionalHero]

As someone who loves Vader I have to say that I don't think he's that special in ANH. It's in ESB that he rises to real greatness.

What's mind-blowing about that Vader has a master? Vader looks subordinate to Tarkin (as Tarkin makes all the big decisions and gives Vader an order) in the first film and the latter also mentions that there is an emperor, which is obviously the title of the leader of the Empire as a whole. Vader has consistently been the top enforcer of the Empire in all the films in my view.

Tarkin was not Vader's master in the original film. Vader was a hired gun. The emperor at that point in time wasn't conceived as sith lord or Vader's master either. That was a retcon for ESB.

As for Vader being 'better' in ESB? Well he's pretty much the exact same character so I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I guess you could argue he was a more ruthless because he wasn't just killing rebels but also his subordinates... but in the end he was pretty much the same Vader. Same eloquence, same domineering presence. Still a master strategist, still undeniably self assured.

 

[The Endless]

The MCU is undoubtedly the Star Wars of this generation. It cant even be debated anymore. Its cemented itself into pop culture now.

Is Thanos the Darth Vader of this generation? Still hard to say. Like I said before, if Thanos is still a major force in pop culture in 20-30 years, then the answer is yes.

I dont think Endgame nerfed Thanos. He was still a huge threat and overpowered most of the heroes. But it did make him more vulnerable and as much as I loved the finale, he couldve had a more interesting send off.

 

[Abudefduf]

His power level wasn't the issue. The issue was replacing him with a less interesting version of himself who had never even met the heroes of the movie.

After IW, everyone on the internet was raving about Thanos. The only people talking about Endgame Thanos are the ones complaining about how disappointing he was and the ones in denial about it.

And that’s even before Jake Lloyd and Hayden get a shot at playing Thanos in his backstory!

I'm now picturing young Thanos with kid Anakin's haircut. That's my new headcanon.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Tarkin was not Vader's master in the original film. Vader was a hired gun. The emperor at that point in time wasn't conceived as sith lord or Vader's master either. That was a retcon for ESB.

As for Vader being 'better' in ESB? Well he's pretty much the exact same character so I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I guess you could argue he was a more ruthless because he wasn't just killing rebels but also his subordinates... but in the end he was pretty much the same Vader. Same eloquence, same domineering presence. Still a master strategist, still undeniably self assured.

You specifically wrote "Vader was the most evil dude around yet he was taking orders from someone higher" as a big thing, which he already did in ANH. He also definitely wasn't more evil than Tarkin, who ordered the destruction of an entire planet.

Vader has more to do and is put more in focus as the big threat in ESB, as he's the one in charge of the imperial forces that are shown in the film. In ANH it was the Death Star that was the threat, and Tarkin the commander that made the decisions. Vader is used much better and gets some extra meat on him to make him more of a character. He's also written to have a more interesting tie to the protagonist instead of just being the generic bad guy that wants to stop the heroes because he works for the evil Empire.

ANH Vader is a very cool villain, but it's not until after that film that I think he becomes a great villain that stands the test of time.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I'm now picturing young Thanos with kid Anakin's haircut. That's my new headcanon.

"I'm a Titan and my name is THANOS!"

ANH Vader is a very cool villain, but it's not until after that film that I think he becomes a great villain that stands the test of time.

Indeed. Great little moments like showing the back of his head without the bucket on, really added to his mystique.

 

[Abudefduf]

"I'm a Titan and my name is THANOS!"

(Kills half the universe) "Now this is balancing!"

 

[metaphysician]

Tarkin was not Vader's master in the original film. Vader was a hired gun. The emperor at that point in time wasn't conceived as sith lord or Vader's master either. That was a retcon for ESB.

As for Vader being 'better' in ESB? Well he's pretty much the exact same character so I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I guess you could argue he was a more ruthless because he wasn't just killing rebels but also his subordinates... but in the end he was pretty much the same Vader. Same eloquence, same domineering presence. Still a master strategist, still undeniably self assured.

Also, the movies did a fairly good job of contrasting Tarkin with the various replacements. Tarkin had the presence and demeanor that you could easily believe Vader respecting him. The various admirals in ESB? Not so much.

 

[metaphysician]

As for Endgame, what *exactly* did Endgame change? Thanos was exactly the same person as he was in Infinity War: a fanatic willing to kill half the universe. The only difference in the finale was that he wasn't winning, so he was more bitter and spiteful towards those standing in his way. He otherwise still evinced the same beliefs.

( And in the beginning, he didn't bother to fight, because he was a fanatic who had already won. Being indifferent to his own life so long as the cause is served fits exactly with his prior behavior, too. )

 

[Abudefduf]

Thanos was exactly the same person as he was in Infinity War

But he wasn't. He wasn't the Thanos who turned half the universe into dust. He wasn't the Thanos who threw his daughter off a cliff. He wasn't the Thanos who killed Loki, Heimdall and the Asgardians in front of Thor. He wasn't the Thanos who cruelly resurrected Vision only to kill him off again.

Endgame Thanos was the dude seen sitting on a floating chair in the first GotG.

 

[The Endless]

But he wasn't. He wasn't the Thanos who turned half the universe into dust. He wasn't the Thanos who threw his daughter off a cliff. He wasn't the Thanos who killed Loki, Heimdall and the Asgardians in front of Thor. He wasn't the Thanos who cruelly resurrected Vision only to kill him off again.

Endgame Thanos was the dude seen sitting on a floating chair in the first GotG.

Well yea, Endgame Thanos hadn't reached that point yet.

But he did more than sit in a floating chair.

The criticism of him is strange. Infinity War was basically Thanos' film. He was a villain protagonist. He had fantastic dialogue and an understandable ethos. Plus great scenes like forcing Quill to kill Gamora, only to troll him. In Endgame obviously the focus was on the heroes and their heist. This Thanos is more of a one dimensional antagonist, but still a huge threat. I mean we all knew that Endgame would be all about the heroes.

 

[Abudefduf]

The criticism of him is strange. Infinity War was basically Thanos' film. He was a villain protagonist. He had fantastic dialogue and an understandable ethos. Plus great scenes like forcing Quill to kill Gamora, only to troll him. In Endgame obviously the focus was on the heroes and their heist. This Thanos is more of a one dimensional antagonist, but still a huge threat. I mean we all knew that Endgame would be all about the heroes.

That's not the point. The point is that the Thanos fought by the Avengers in Endgame wasn't the Thanos that Infinity War made us care about... he was the dude in a floating chair from GotG.

Imagine how lame it would've been if Darth Vader had been killed at the beginning of Return of the Jedi and replaced by a pre-Star Wars version of himself. That's what Marvel did with Thanos.