The Agnostic Thread - Home of the Unsure

[Hotwire]

I figure if we have threads for believers and non-believers, why not a thread for those of us on the fence?

For starters, what makes you want to believe even though you don't?

 

[Doctor Evo]

Who says agnostics want to believe?

 

[Hotwire]

Who says agnostics want to believe?

I'm sure some do. Not all but, some. Others I'm sure already believe and find themselves wishing they didn't. Either way, it's just discussion amongst people who are unsure.

 

[Doctor Evo]

I'm sure some do. Not all but, some. Others I'm sure already believe and find themselves wishing they didn't. Either way, it's just discussion amongst people who are unsure.

This raises an interesting question: how do you define agnosticism?

This is an appropriate starting-point for this thread.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I indietnified myself as agnostic for a while, before going full dark side.

Good times.

 

[ThePhantasm]

How can I be sure this thread really exists?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I can only speak for myself. Yes, I would love to believe. I was raised Catholic and as a child and young person I was very reassured by the cosmic view I had inherited. One of the great ideals I was taught was to embrace truth and to discount falsehoods. As I grew older the logical fallacies within my own and other religions were just too much. Now, that is not to say that a totally, iron clad rational/logical world view is the end all be all to me. We are not creatures with a purely rational nature. But to continue to act as though the cosmic view I had learned was true is just not an option. I think, ultimately, the bad does out weigh the good of believing in something that is simply no so. What I wish some atheists and agnostics would at least be more cognizant of is that this is in no ways an easy way to live. It's not, especially if you do still believe in right and wrong on some level of your psyche. It also does little to comfort one in times of struggle and pain.

 

[R0rschach]

Agnostics like to sit in the middle of the field atop a termite mound. That way we can see all sides, gather all relevant information. We are the "independents" of the spiritual world. We do not deal in absolutes. We are loyal to no party. We want to believe yet we know we only wish to do so because it is part of our very nature. It is part of who we are but the logical part of ourselves can not allow us to fool ourselves into thinking there is an absolute God/Super Creator. We stick with science/mind but remain in touch with our soul/heart. We are forever in limbo...because there are to many questions and so few answers. We are processing information. Please hold.

 

[R0rschach]

I can only speak for myself. Yes, I would love to believe. I was raised Catholic and as a child and young person I was very reassured by the cosmic view I had inherited. One of the great ideals I was taught was to embrace truth and to discount falsehoods. As I grew older the logical fallacies within my own and other religions were just too much. Now, that is not to say that a totally, iron clad rational/logical world view is the end all be all to me. We are not creatures with a purely rational nature. But to continue to act as though the cosmic view I had learned was true is just not an option. I think, ultimately, the bad does out weigh the good of believing in something that is simply no so. What I wish some atheists and agnostics would at least be more cognizant of is that this is in no ways an easy way to live. It's not, especially if you do still believe in right and wrong on some level of your psyche. It also does little to comfort one in times of struggle and pain.

You are correct sir, ignorance is indeed bliss. My parents are both very religious and they find comfort in God, I can not count the times I have heard my mother say; I leave it Gods hands, God will find a way. As agnostics we can't simply push issues away to be handled by a higher power as we contemplate that that higher power might not even exist. No, we have to deal with reality as it is instead of how we would wish it to be. We are forever in limbo.

 

[The End]

At the risk of sounding patronizing, there is a school of thought that says that some agnostics are not identifying themselves properly.

I was a theist throughout childhood, started to have doubts when I was about 11, called myself atheist (a very hard atheist I was) throughout my teens. At some point I realized I couldn't actually be sure a god didn't exist, so I called myself an agnostic for a few years.

Then I learned more about definitions and realized that atheism describes my position just fine. I find that many atheists are agnostic atheists. They're not mutually exclusive terms. And I have indeed encountered online the occasional agnostic who, from the description of their positions, seem more like agnostic atheists than strict agnostics.

Agnosticism addresses knowledge.
Atheism addresses belief.

An agnostic says, "I don't know". An atheist says, "I don't believe". The thing is you don't wait to know before you believe or disbelieve. I don't know for sure that no gods exist, I also don't believe that any gods exist as I've never heard any convincing argument for the existence of one or seen any convincing evidence. So I'm an agnostic atheist.

 

[R0rschach]

At the risk of sounding patronizing, there is a school of thought that says that some agnostics are not identifying themselves properly.

I was a theist throughout childhood, started to have doubts when I was about 11, called myself atheist (a very hard atheist I was) throughout my teens. At some point I realized I couldn't actually be sure a god didn't exist, so I called myself an agnostic for a few years.

Then I learned more about definitions and realized that atheism describes my position just fine. I find that many atheists are agnostic atheists. They're not mutually exclusive terms. And I have indeed encountered online the occasional agnostic who, from the description of their positions, seem more like agnostic atheists than strict agnostics.

Agnosticism addresses knowledge.
Atheism addresses belief.

An agnostic says, "I don't know". An atheist says, "I don't believe". The thing is you don't wait to know before you believe or disbelieve. I don't know for sure that no gods exist, I also don't believe that any gods exist as I've never heard any convincing argument for the existence of one or seen any convincing evidence. So I'm an agnostic atheist.

Hmm interesting.
I do believe in a form of existence beyond this one. One that I will never be able to prove, ofcourse. Guess I believe in something of which I am not sure is real ha ha.

 

[SV Fan]

I would consider myself agnostic, my take on god is if a god like thing exists no religion in today's word has a good grasp of him/it.

 

[Feenix]

I indietnified myself as agnostic for a while, before going full dark side.

Good times.

Same here. Ah, the life of a youth, so full of wonder.

I'm happily an adult cynic now

 

[XSpidercideX]

I would consider myself agnostic, my take on god is if a god like thing exists no religion in today's word has a good grasp of him/it.

Thats my stance as well but I recognize myself as an atheist. Although I don't go around making that public. If there is a God, humanity probably does not have it pinned down as far as it's definiton and nature.

I find it almost impossible for an agnostic to not also be an atheist if you look at the true definiton of atheism.

Atheism is not a hard stance that no god exists. It is simply a lack of belief in one. I don't know if a god exists, and I don't claim to believe in any particular god out there. There could be one, but I don't know of one, therefore I don't believe in one until there is evidence to indicate one exists.

 

[Piper Maru]

I was brought up Catholic many years ago. But I would consider myself an agnostic atheist.

 

[SV Fan]

I find it almost impossible for an agnostic to not also be an atheist if you look at the true definiton of atheism.

Atheism is not a hard stance that no god exists. It is simply a lack of belief in one. I don't know if a god exists, and I don't claim to believe in any particular god out there. There could be one, but I don't know of one, therefore I don't believe in one until there is evidence to indicate one exists.

Fair enough I am atheist but not a fundamentalist atheist. lol

I would say I would back my opinion no god exists with 80% certainty, and if a god does exist I would say 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% chance no religion has a good grasp of it.

 

[Warhammer]

Atheism is not a hard stance that no god exists. It is simply a lack of belief in one. I don't know if a god exists, and I don't claim to believe in any particular god out there. There could be one, but I don't know of one, therefore I don't believe in one until there is evidence to indicate one exists.

Yeah, I feel as though many people confuse an atheist as someone who's gonna roll up and say "There is no god and you are stupid to believe that" versus "I don't believe a god exists." I just wish people weren't so damn smug about their beliefs (or disbelief).

 

[Lantern Venom]

Fair enough I am atheist but not a fundamentalist atheist. lol

I would say I would back my opinion no god exists with 80% certainty, and if a god does exist I would say 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% chance no religion has a good grasp of it.

There is a considerable difference between an atheist and an anti-theist, even though the latter falls within the definition of the first. Atheism is the rejection of the supernatural, but that might be a strictly personal stance. Anti-theism (sometimes called "militant" atheism) states that all religion is dangerous and must ultimately be eliminated for humanity to advance.

 

[KevanG]

Personally I don't find myself caring if I believe in any higher power. I don't know if there's any afterlife and besides people wanting there to be so there's no definitive proof. I figure I'll find out when I'm dead but I'm in no hurry to see. I'm fine if people want to believe in things and I'm not interested in telling people that they're idiots unless I think it's bad for them and will wind up hurting them. All in all I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist but I really don't think there's any higher power than what we would choose for us to govern ourselves in our daily lives.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm a theist after being an agnostic in my twenties and an atheist in my teens.

I'm pretty certain there's a God who created the universe and guides me but I think it's impossible to say what God is thinking or what God wants.

I don't know why more people don't identify as theist.

 

[jmc]

Fence sitters.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Fence sitters.

The religious claim that God is real without proof.

Atheist claim God is impossible without proof.

Agnostic is the only reasonable position.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There is a considerable difference between an atheist and an anti-theist, even though the latter falls within the definition of the first. Atheism is the rejection of the supernatural, but that might be a strictly personal stance. Anti-theism (sometimes called "militant" atheism) states that all religion is dangerous and must ultimately be eliminated for humanity to advance.

Shouldn't be called anti-religion since a theist doesn't necessarily have to adhere to an organized belief system.

 

[XSpidercideX]

The religious claim that God is real without proof.

Atheist claim God is impossible without proof.

Agnostic is the only reasonable position.

The atheist claim is NOT that God is impossible without proof. That's ridiculous. It is surely possible that there is a god, but it seems unlikely or irrelevant because we have not experienced it or it has not revealed itself to us.

It is simply that without proof, or evidence, we see no grounds for belief in such an extraordinary claim.

PS. Many religoius would also claim that there is a lot of "proof" for God. So they are not claiming that God is real without "proof" either.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The atheist claim is NOT that God is impossible without proof. That's ridiculous. It is surely possible that there is a god, but it seems unlikely or irrelevant because we have not experienced it or it has not revealed itself to us.

It is simply that without proof, or evidence, we see no grounds for belief in such an extraordinary claim.

PS. Many religoius would also claim that there is a lot of "proof" for God. So they are not claiming that God is real without "proof" either.

It's not ridiculous. Many atheist act as if God is a laughable concept.

Your description describes an agnostic rather than an atheist.