The Asylum: The Realism Thread

[DKDetective]

We all know that old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again, but expecting a different outcome the second time. For the last 20 years we have debated how and why certain villains are too fantastic, Sci Fi, or unrealistic for Nolan, Snyder, Reeves, etc.'s "grounded" or "gritty" takes on Batman. Well, this thread is for those who want another ride on the merry-go-round.

All further discussions of the topic are confined to this thread. Any and all breaches will result in the poster getting a week off.

 

[Sawyer]

Pre-Gunn’s hiring, I held onto the belief that the more larger than life villains could still be a possibility, but with two takes on Batman running parallel (and one seemingly leaning more into the superheroic side of things), I can accept that certain things are probably a no-go as far as Reeves and Pattinson go.

Man-Bat is out. The whole Ra’s/Lazarus Pit/League of Assassins business is probably out (especially since we already got a relatively stripped down version with Nolan).

Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze… I’ll put them in the “toss up” pile.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Since I KNOW I can talk about it here (don't want to risk getting on DKDetective's bad side), I am just going to repeat what I've said in that other thread that I don't see Reeves using any super powered or supernatural type villains in his Batman movies.

I think any chance of Mr. Freeze or Clayface or Poison Ivy in a Matt Reeves Batman movie ended when Gunn and Safran got put in charge of creating their own DCU with a Grant Morrison inspired Batman project being announced. And to be honest, if Reeves really was ever open to doing those type of Batman stories, I think we would be seeing his Batman being integrated into the DCU instead of being labeled as an "Elseworlds" saga.

 

[Eddie Dean]

 

[Sawyer]

Since I KNOW I can talk about it here (don't want to risk getting on DKDetective's bad side), I am just going to repeat what I've said in that other thread that I don't see Reeves using any super powered or supernatural type villains in his Batman movies.

I think any chance of Mr. Freeze or Clayface or Poison Ivy in a Matt Reeves Batman movie ended when Gunn and Safran got put in charge of creating their own DCU with a Grant Morrison inspired Batman project being announced. And to be honest, if Reeves really was ever open to doing those type of Batman stories, I think we would be seeing his Batman being integrated into the DCU instead of being labeled as an "Elseworlds" saga.

Reeves is surely a factor in this not being integrated in the DCU, but I feel like a bigger one is Pattinson.

The kind of career he’s built for himself post-Twilight, does anyone really think he’s interested in clocking in a dozen-ish appearances as the same character in a decade’s time?

 

[Invader Joker]

I feel the existence of Brave and the Bold combined with all of the previous comments by Matt Reeves settles the debate. We won't see any super fantastical elements in this world.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I don't buy that, really.

I think Reeves will do what he wants, now that we know there's going to be separation.

His films will still look, feel, and be so different that having sci-fi or fantasy elements could be done in such a way that it doesn't feel remotely related or similar to what Gunn has going on.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I don't buy that, really.

I think Reeves will do what he wants, now that we know there's going to be separation.

His films will still look, feel, and be so different that having sci-fi or fantasy elements could be done in such a way that it doesn't feel remotely related or similar to what Gunn has going on.

I don't think Reeves wants to do sci-fi or fantasy elements. I think he wants to do crime drama stuff and film noir detective stuff and keep it "grounded".

 

[HydraSith12]

I think Todd Phillips Joker 1 Movie is the most Realistic Movie in the Batman World for now but i think Folie a Deux will have more action and more Fantastic Elements than the First One maybe it was because was Rated R i dont know but it would be Weird to see a Batman in that World

 

[Kane52630]

The whole Ra’s/Lazarus Pit/League of Assassins business is probably out (especially since we already got a relatively stripped down version with Nolan).

Also it's going to be in Brave in the Bold considering it's got Damian.

 

[Sawyer]

Also it's going to be in Brave in the Bold considering it's got Damian.

That too.

 

[Iceman]

Reeves is surely a factor in this not being integrated in the DCU, but I feel like a bigger one is Pattinson.

The kind of career he’s built for himself post-Twilight, does anyone really think he’s interested in clocking in a dozen-ish appearances as the same character in a decade’s time?

No, but that’s also why I didn’t expect him to want to do Batman at all in the first place.

 

[Invader Joker]

This discussion has never been more settled lol

-The Batman seems much more inclined towards Nolanian "realism" than towards the Burtonian funfair.
MR: It is certain that we are very far from the tone of Tim Burton's films... Realism was in my specifications, it was for me the only way to tell this story as I envisioned it.

 

[Eddie Dean]

And there are many things in The Batman that are more fantastical than the Nolan films. They are both "realistic" and both have "fantastical" elements.

 

[Invader Joker]

And there are many things in The Batman that are more fantastical than the Nolan films. They are both "realistic" and both have "fantastical" elements.

Name one. There is absolutely nothing in The Batman that's more ludicrous than the microwave device of the third act of Batman Begins, or even the SONAR thing from TDK. And Reeves went out of his way to put Batman in a wingsuit instead of the Nolan gliding cape because of realism. He even went so far as to put a parachute on it, which is what Nolan's Batman would've needed to land safely.

I'm not saying Reeves Batman is completely realistic, of course it isn't, it's an action flick at the end of the day so things like characters surviving scenarios they should not survive are a given, but there's nothing in it that struck me as more out there than the things in the Nolan films. And by all of Reeves statements it seems it was his intention to be more realistic than Nolan.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I'm sorry, but a movie where there's a newsreport that reads "MASKED KILLER THREATENS CITY HALL!" is not a realistic movie. Or the part where Batman runs perfectly down a multli level building? Or the cyberpunk eye recording contacts Batman has? Or the green goo energy shot?

What Reeves is talking about is INTERNAL LOGIC. It's not saying that fantasy elements can't happen, it's that what happens in the movie has to make sense within the world. He says the exact same thing about the Apes movies, you know, the movies where humans and talking monkeys are at war with each other?

 

[Invader Joker]

I'm sorry, but a movie where there's a newsreport that reads "MASKED KILLER THREATENS CITY HALL!" is not a realistic movie. Or the part where Batman runs perfectly down a multli level building? Or the cyberpunk eye recording contacts Batman has? Or the green goo energy shot?

What Reeves is talking about is INTERNAL LOGIC. It's not saying that fantasy elements can't happen, it's that what happens in the movie has to make sense within the world. He says the exact same thing about the Apes movies, you know, the movies where humans and talking monkeys are at war with each other?

You said The Batman was more fantastical in some aspects than the Nolan films. I asked you for an example lol The eye recording things exist in real life and don't get anywhere close to the ridiculousness of the sonar device from TDK. The energy shot was adrenaline; and it may not look green in real life but that's an extremely trivial thing to point out, and again, it doesn't come close at all to, for example, the way that Bale's Bruce healed his back in TDKR.

Also the literal justification they gave for not using the wingsuit was because it didn't fit their movie in which they were trying to be "super realistic and super grounded". That was their exact quote. So yes, they were indeed trying to be realistic. It's been their explicit intent from day one. It's as realistic as an action film based on Batman can be, but it is their intent to be realistic. To look at those quotes, and to look at the quotes in which Reeves plainly said realism was "one of his specifications" and still claim that wasn't his intent seems like a pretty hopeless exercise to me.



Also to point out Apes is extremely pointless since Reeves said that he tried to go further with being grounded/realistic in this than he ever did in that.

 

[Eddie Dean]

The eye contacts do not work like that irl are you serious lol

 

[Invader Joker]

The eye contacts do not work like that irl are you serious lol

Again: The point isn't whether or not it's 100% realistic. It's a movie, it's an action movie, and even the more realistic one of those is bound to have some proposterous elements. The point is whether or not Reeves intended to be realistic, and to that end, even more realistic than even the Nolan films, the answer of which seems to be 100% yes based on the statements coming from Matt Reeves and his team.

And even then you haven't answered my question: What in The Batman is more unrealistic than the microwave device in Begins, the cape glider, the "bullet fingerprint recreation" scene in TDK, or the sonar device in TDK? Eye contact cameras that are able to livestream that way may be a bit of a stretch (and I mean, are they really? Wouldn't be surprised if they came to market in a few years, it's hardly revolutionary technology as really small cameras already exist and it's not like Bruce's ones were mega HD. They didn't even have proper color and were blurry and low res) but they're nowhere near the stretch that Nolan took for his own sci-fi.

 

[Eddie Dean]

The sonar device has the same relation to actual gps devices that the eye contacts do to google glasses or whatever. You absolutely cannot wear tiny little contacts that cross reference facial recognition software with police records. Sonar might be more realistic tbh.

 

[Invader Joker]

The sonar device has the same relation to actual gps devices that the eye contacts do to google glasses or whatever. You absolutely cannot wear tiny little contacts that cross reference facial recognition software with police records. Sonar might be more realistic tbh.

Samsung Patents Smart Contact Lenses With Built-in Cameras | by d‘wise one | Chip-Monks | Medium

The sonar is not more realistic than this lol. Maybe the one he used in the Hong Kong scene with a special cellphone or whatever, what was stupid was the scene where he turned every single telephone into a sonar.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Whatever.

 

[C Prometheus]

And there are many things in The Batman that are more fantastical than the Nolan films. They are both "realistic" and both have "fantastical" elements.

No disagreements that there's fantastical stuff sure, albeit in the general context of being depicted in a realistic vein, but I struggle to think of anything in The Batman that's significantly more fantastical than the Nolan films.

IMO the closest contenders would be Bruce tanking both a bomb detonation point blank and the wingsuit crash and practically shrugging the whole thing off. But like @Invader Joker said, it's not like Nolan's trilogy was above that either with how Bruce's broken back is fixed in TDKR.

Mileage will vary though if a person enduring what should be fatal or severe injuries is significantly more fantastical than a bizarre insta-cure for a broken spine.

This discussion has never been more settled lol

-The Batman seems much more inclined towards Nolanian "realism" than towards the Burtonian funfair.
MR: It is certain that we are very far from the tone of Tim Burton's films... Realism was in my specifications, it was for me the only way to tell this story as I envisioned it.

It's been settled for ages; a lot of fans online just don't want to accept the answer Reeves is giving them, even though they're already getting a more fantastical iteration of Batman with The Brave and the Bold.

 

[Invader Joker]

No disagreements that there's fantastical stuff sure, albeit in the general context of being depicted in a realistic vein, but I struggle to think of anything in The Batman that's significantly more fantastical than the Nolan films.

IMO the closest contenders would be Bruce tanking both a bomb detonation point blank and the wingsuit crash and practically shrugging the whole thing off. But like @Invader Joker said, it's not like Nolan's trilogy was above that either with how Bruce's broken back is fixed in TDKR.

Another example that comes to mind is the scene where he's lit up on fire in Batman Begins and his mouth doesn't get burned even tho it's completely exposed, or the scene in which he falls with Rachel in TDK and isn't even hurt by the fall. It's just action movie logic, heroes are gonna survive and come unscathed from stuff maybe they shouldn't.

 

[C Prometheus]

Another example that comes to mind is the scene where he's lit up on fire in Batman Begins and his mouth doesn't get burned even tho it's completely exposed, or the scene in which he falls with Rachel in TDK and isn't even hurt by the fall. It's just action movie logic, heroes are gonna survive and come unscathed from stuff maybe they shouldn't.

Plus... Nolan's depiction of Bruce's origin story in Batman Begins is also a little fantastical too.

We're talking about a secret society of ninjas appropriating an abandoned Buddhist monastery somewhere up in Nepal, led by a white man appropriating a Middle Eastern moniker. That's several conflicting cultures all in one presented as Bruce's primary source of tutelage ahead of becoming Batman.

Then again, a white man stealing multiple cultural concepts for his own ends is a tale as old as time!

(In all seriousness, regardless of how fantastical the scenario itself is, the whole point of both Nolan and Reeves' depictions of the mythology is treating the overall mythos of Batman as if it were realistic. So obvious logical fallacies aside, the origin still works.)