The Dark Knight The Realism Debate thread

[Solidus]

You know the word realistic is thrown around a lot when it comes to BB lol.

But this is how I feel, BB is realistic, but realistic in the movie world. There is no such thing as a realistic movie, even ones based off of real events or people, Hollywood no matter what even with documentaries spices it up, cuts out the "reality" in anything. Saving Private Ryan was based off of real events and depicted WWII realisticaly but it was made with fictional characters.

To me there is no realistic in the terms that people are using in this thread. But as terms of Hollywood Realistic, yes I believe BB actually stays very grounded in it and thats why I loved it a lot. Though yes it is VERY unlikley that some man is going to dress up as a bat and fight ninja's, it is very very very improbable. But the way Nolan made it, it is not impossible. Most of the stuff in the movie is based in real technology and who knows if Bill Gates might run around dressed as something fighting people lol. But as I see it, Nolan made it believable, and not "impossible" feeling. In all the other Batman films I was like "Impossible." Half the stuff that happens in those four movies were.

But I think Nolan brought a gritty feel of realism, and no over the top stuff. Is it based in our real reality? To a point yes. But is is truly real life realistic? No. No movie is or ever will be.

 

[Porygon]

You know the word realistic is thrown around a lot when it comes to BB lol.

But this is how I feel, BB is realistic, but realistic in the movie world. There is no such thing as a realistic movie, even ones based off of real events or people, Hollywood no matter what even with documentaries spices it up, cuts out the "reality" in anything. Saving Private Ryan was based off of real events and depicted WWII realisticaly but it was made with fictional characters.

To me there is no realistic in the terms that people are using in this thread. But as terms of Hollywood Realistic, yes I believe BB actually stays very grounded in it and thats why I loved it a lot. Though yes it is VERY unlikley that some man is going to dress up as a bat and fight ninja's, it is very very very improbable. But the way Nolan made it, it is not impossible. Most of the stuff in the movie is based in real technology and who knows if Bill Gates might run around dressed as something fighting people lol. But as I see it, Nolan made it believable, and not "impossible" feeling. In all the other Batman films I was like "Impossible." Half the stuff that happens in those four movies were.

But I think Nolan brought a gritty feel of realism, and no over the top stuff. Is it based in our real reality? To a point yes. But is is truly real life realistic? No. No movie is or ever will be.

Basically, in Batman Begins everything appears credible. But not necessarily realistic.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

Basically, in Batman Begins everything appears credible. But not necessarily realistic.

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

 

[TheLongestDay]

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

i like that...

and as for being on top of a skyscraper-maybe he was up there collecting his thoughts and planning his next move

 

[Gianakin_]

If the skycraper scene hadn't been there, many would be complaining about not enough iconic shots. They do even now, imagine if that scene never existed.

 

[Solidus]

I see where you're going. But even 'credible' is a bit, hmmm.
How about "More-suspension-of-disbeliefability"?

What were some of the most unbelievable things to you guys?

Oddly, the microwave emitter theory was more plausible than one would think.

For me it was stuff like Bruce using one arm to bicep curl Liam Neesons entire body when he saved him on the cliff.

Also, climbing all the way to the top of the sears tower or whatever simply to sit there. How convenient is it to strike at crime from that vantage point? You are at the top of a skyscraper Bruce. The criminals are all on the first floor. I get that its good to have a vantage point, but when everyone looks like ants?

Little things, s'all.

First with the arm curl, that stuff does happen. I mean the woman who lifts her car to save her child, and just things you read about all the time. When your adrinelane is pumping, man you can lift a lot more then you think. First he's buff to begin with, and add a lot of adrinelane and you something like that, that could possibly happen.

As for the climb, to me it was more symbolic and more emotional for him, not for looking for crooks. It was dawn, so he's done for the night, no more fighting crime for his first day. It was more symbolic where he is Gotham's new protector. And to me it was Bruce almost looking at the city he is going to save. It was more emotional then hunting crooks.

 

[TheLongestDay]

First with the arm curl, that stuff does happen. I mean the woman who lifts her car to save her child, and just things you read about all the time. When your adrinelane is pumping, man you can lift a lot more then you think. First he's buff to begin with, and add a lot of adrinelane and you something like that, that could possibly happen.

As for the climb, to me it was more symbolic and more emotional for him, not for looking for crooks. It was dawn, so he's done for the night, no more fighting crime for his first day. It was more symbolic where he is Gotham's new protector. And to me it was Bruce almost looking at the city he is going to save. It was more emotional then hunting crooks.

agreed on all points!:bat:

 

[A Dark Knight]

First with the arm curl, that stuff does happen. I mean the woman who lifts her car to save her child, and just things you read about all the time. When your adrinelane is pumping, man you can lift a lot more then you think. First he's buff to begin with, and add a lot of adrinelane and you something like that, that could possibly happen.

As for the climb, to me it was more symbolic and more emotional for him, not for looking for crooks. It was dawn, so he's done for the night, no more fighting crime for his first day. It was more symbolic where he is Gotham's new protector. And to me it was Bruce almost looking at the city he is going to save. It was more emotional then hunting crooks.

I agree, amazing things happen when the adrinelane is pumping. I agree again, Bruce had been fighting all night, he was looking over his city, and that was just a great symbolic shot in the film for the fans.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I liked the shot of him on the sears tower or whatever, but what I didn't like was how ridiculously long his cape was in that scene. The cape was hanging like 5 feet below his own feet.

 

[Samurai Pasta]

The Sears Tower? What the hell? That building was so much shorter than the Sears Tower.

 

[Solidus]

I liked the shot of him on the sears tower or whatever, but what I didn't like was how ridiculously long his cape was in that scene. The cape was hanging like 5 feet below his own feet.

Hmm I just re-watched it, and to me even though it's really dark, the cape seems normal length. We are talking about the scene after Gordon finds Falcone right?

The only scene where the cape looks long, is where he is looking for the drug drop off in the Narrows, but in that shot he is crouching.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

i read somewhere that the costume designers used capes of different length, depending on the scene, for dramatic effect.

 

[TheLongestDay]

i read somewhere that the costume designers used capes of different length, depending on the scene, for dramatic effect.

and it worked IMO

 

[Cyrusbales]

BB sets upa world where we are supposed to belive what happens is actually possible, whilst highly unlikely. The scientific element and reductionism of everything down to the basic level, setting up the world as our own in terms of physics and suchlike, but with a few exceptional people and things, not impossible, just highly improbable.

Obviously the micro-emitter craps all over the set up.

 

[TheLongestDay]

BB sets upa world where we are supposed to belive what happens is actually possible, whilst highly unlikely. The scientific element and reductionism of everything down to the basic level, setting up the world as our own in terms of physics and suchlike, but with a few exceptional people and things, not impossible, just highly improbable.

Obviously the micro-emitter craps all over the set up.

I respectfully disagree

 

[Hole Shot]

I liked the shot of him on the sears tower or whatever, but what I didn't like was how ridiculously long his cape was in that scene. The cape was hanging like 5 feet below his own feet.

I noticed that too and just always assumed he's crouching since it's dark and he is a little hunched over.

 

[Rorschach II]

I thought the shot on the tower was a symbolic thing and more for imagery than anything else. Singer had a lot of "comic book" style images in Returns that weren't necessarily logical or precisely realistic but they looked cool. Nolan didn't have much of that, but that shot was one of them.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

I thought the shot on the tower was a symbolic thing and more for imagery than anything else. Singer had a lot of "comic book" style images in Returns that weren't necessarily logical or precisely realistic but they looked cool. Nolan didn't have much of that, but that shot was one of them.

Yeah, and thats fine. Bugs me only a bit. Anyway, its been explained that he is there meditating after a nights work. Case closed. But the fact of it being solely for imagery is what would bug me. Content is a two fold beast. Composition and content. Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about? Good. Cuz I don't. Art schmart. Whatever gets you off.

Anyway...it's just those UNQUALIFIED gratuitous scenes that bug me. Worst offender was B89 with the ship stopping in front of the moon and then dropping back to earth. Totally broke the third wall for me. Utter schlock.

 

[TheLongestDay]

Yeah, and thats fine. Bugs me only a bit. Anyway, its been explained that he is there meditating after a nights work. Case closed. But the fact of it being solely for imagery is what would bug me. Content is a two fold beast. Composition and content. Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about? Good. Cuz I don't. Art schmart. Whatever gets you off.

Anyway...it's just those UNQUALIFIED gratuitous scenes that bug me. Worst offender was B89 with the ship stopping in front of the moon and then dropping back to earth. Totally broke the third wall for me. Utter schlock.

its a double edged sword with shots like that,for instance the "action comics #1" shot was cool in superman returns-but also looked too obviously posed

 

[BubbaGump]

If the skycraper scene hadn't been there, many would be complaining about not enough iconic shots. They do even now, imagine if that scene never existed.

Think about all the iconic shots that never made it into the movie. Good thing we were able to salvage THAT one.

 

[Gianakin_]

Think about all the iconic shots that never made it into the movie. Good thing we were able to salvage THAT one.

Well, if you're being ironic to me, I'm not saying that the above was my opinion, I'm saying what people are and would have been saying.
I actually think that there were enough and well-placed iconic shots.

 

[CaptainClown]

the cool scenes in superman returns really still didn't save it for me, or even show a glimmering light of hope for the sequel if the director returns (his name eludes me at present)

 

[El Payaso]

If the skycraper scene hadn't been there, many would be complaining about not enough iconic shots. They do even now, imagine if that scene never existed.

That makes me think about the famous shot of Batman with spreaded wings coming down towards the camera (which made it as one of the posters of the movie indeed). The shot was great, iconic and all. Sadly the terrible editing practically made it unexistant in the movie. Less than half a second and the very frame that made it to the poister is not visible. I pray for Nolan realizing this.

 

[Mr. Socko]

This?

Used in posters:

lol @ how Batman's cape obviously isn't that long when it's not rigid. Kinda like how Keaton's cape would magically suspend in the air stiffly.

 

[dark_b]

they used like 4 different capes. the same with superman.
its to make it more cool. not everythign is realistic. and nolan never said that it was.