The Batsuit Master Thread

[darklord1967]

Then in that case, Nolan ****ed up big time with that ending. I'm not saying that I don't want to see Batman and his universe portrayed realistically, but when you come up with something that makes no sense at all, WTF? I still think that Batman Begins is the best Batman film so far, but what you just said gives another strike to TDK for me.

Do try to remember that all of this is (for the most part) NOTHING MORE than my (incredibly long-winded) opinion. And even though I am VERY opinionated on all things Batman, i certainly have no interest in taking away anyone's enjoyment of anything.

But as for the costume, I don't see why if Batman had access to all of this equipment, he wouldn't try to use it to his advantage.

Seems like a perfectly valid question to me.

A friend of mine on DeviantArt, Nick (A.K.A. BlackDragon85), recently did some concept drawings of Batman and Bane and just a couple of days ago, posted one of both in action:

I must say that is a VERY cool illustration!! Beautifully done.

He also did some Batmobile, grapple gun, and villain concepts (along with some Transformers and Superman stuff) over at his DeviantArt page:

http://black-dragon85.deviantart.com/

I just think his design is, in my opinion, what Batman SHOULD look like on the big screen.

Fair enough. Like I've said before, there is PLENTY of room for different interpretations of the Batman. We each have our favorites.

 

[The Shape]

Can't believe the mods allowed pages of this thread to be filled with one poster's completely PRETENTIOUS explanations. Everyone has the right to personal opinion, but jeez, Nolan's films are supposedly "pretentious"? Read over the same of things this guy said and we'll all get our fair share of unjustified/excessive claims for this month.

 

[Mr. Finger]

I wholeheartedly respect your opinion although I obviously disagree with it. In my view, movie comic book heroes have become far too much about increased elaborate-ness and sculpting of "the costume" and less about "the character". The result has been superhero films that are far less interesting to me.

Weak script... perhaps. But bad acting? I'd take Clark Batram's portrayal of The Batman (in Batman: Dead End) ANY DAY OF THE WEEK versus Christian Bale's hammy, constipated, ridiculously forced delivery.

Bad looking costume? Again, we'll have to agree to disagree.





Well I'm glad you enjoyed Batman Begins. And I certainly have no interest in taking that away from you.

By "we" I don't refer to comic book fans in general. I refer to those of us (usually older comic book fans) who grew up with Richard Donner's Superman: The Movie, and consider it (to this day) to be one of the finest super-hero productions of all time, featuring a tour-de-force physical and psychological performance by the acting leading man (Christopher Reeve) that is un-matched by anything we had seen before or since.

In my view, "Batman Begins" is only second to "The Dark Knight" as one of the worst, most pretentious Batman films ever made.

i have enjoyed catching up with this thread.. also with the inclusion of the Dark Lord himself... enjoyable rants...

agree on most parts, but i will be honest. You seem to leave out Burton's Bat films when you are discussing the "flaws" , "not paying attention to source material"... and other "crimes" of the other live action films.

The worst "Batman" films to me will always be the Schumaker films... no contest...
The biggest "F" up as far as source material?... Burton is guilty from his very first film... the absence of Joe Chill... and source of the parents death.

I like what Nolan has done.. it's a different take... and he pays a lot more attention to the source material overall i would say than the other Directors ever did... but i do agree on the "Batman" himself not being done right yet..

oh ya.. "Deadend" ? pajama's... please.. i like the colors. The cowl is ok... but it looked like what it was. An Adam West suit with a different cowl.. with backwards pointed ears...

i digress...
I agree with your no armor view... i also do think that Batman should be much more like a Ninja... quiet... and operate much more in the shadows...
That said... i think Nolan is the only guy to get close to that so far... the first time Batman shows up in "Begins" was fun... to me, the movie lost a bit after Falcone was strapped to the signal... but before that... i thought they had it.

I too grew up watching Superman by Donner in the theaters... a great experience it was, but i remember thinking that the second half of the film was REALLY campy. Christopher R. did a great job in the lead... but even watching it then.. the camp that entered the film after it arrived in Metropolis went south a bit in my book. The first half of Donner's Superman was epic... with the fall of his father.. epic... just like the first half of "Begins" to me. Nolan handled the first half and the Death of the Wayne's really well to me.
They both get a bit "for the masses" after that... but the first half of both of those films i hold in high regard. "Superman" got the hero dead on... but as a film?... i regard it in the same book as "Begins". Batman as the character just hasn't been nailed yet... after so many films?... i'm still waiting..

and i have to question anyone that says "Begins" or "Knight" are worse films than "Forever" or "B and R"?
even "Returns" is kind of crap when watched again... "Begins" or "Knight" worst ever?... to each their own i guess... but you ARE the only person i've ever heard say those words.

I think that Nolan had far more potential than any of the other films so far... got more of it right than any of the others so far...

I have to say though...
i do agree with your view on the Batman character...
they haven't got that one right yet in any of the films... "Begins" got pretty close in the first half... but didn't carry it through...

Less talking... even hardly any at all...
He shouldn't have to "TELL" people who he is.. if i see another Bat film where the character has to actually say... "I'm Batman"... i mean come on. Isn't that the point?.. Scare the **** out of them... kick their ass and subdue the bad-guy... and bail in to the shadows like a ghost... poooof....
no more explaining it with words...

and as far as the topic... the suit?
i really like the renderings done using Cap's suit from Avengers..
I will always want to see a black and grey suit...
no oval please... and no yellow belt that looks like it came from a costume shop.
a black Bat over grey... do the bad guys need to see it?... no... not at all.
no trunks...
I don't think it needs to have armor, but it needs to look like it has some substantial thickness to it.. as in the material. Perhaps to help with the elements... hanging out all night in the rain on a roof-top could get chilly if one was only in spandex or pajama's...

so far that CA manip is the most impressive one so far...
cowl wise, i think the "panther" sculpt was the closest to Neal Adams for me.. before the foam shrank and had a hard time fitting around Val's head..
But i liked the original sculpt. Something like that design... blended in to the cape... right over the CA manip...
done... my $.02...

 

[regwec]

Can't believe the mods allowed pages of this thread to be filled with one poster's completely PRETENTIOUS explanations. Everyone has the right to personal opinion, but jeez, Nolan's films are supposedly "pretentious"? Read over the same of things this guy said and we'll all get our fair share of unjustified/excessive claims for this month.

With respect, I don't understand complaints of this nature. You say that DL67 has a right to an opinion, but you seem to think that his opinions are too detailed or unusual to be admissible. I find it extremely refreshing when someone takes the time and the effort to articulate their thoughts properly, especially when their thoughts are relatively original and insightful. These boards are a much duller and less intelligent place than when I first joined them, so I would make every effort to encourage detailed, original and controversial posts.

 

[kit1982]

oops wrong thread....

 

[The Shape]

With respect, I don't understand complaints of this nature. You say that DL67 has a right to an opinion, but you seem to think that his opinions are too detailed or unusual to be admissible. I find it extremely refreshing when someone takes the time and the effort to articulate their thoughts properly, especially when their thoughts are relatively original and insightful. These boards are a much duller and less intelligent place than when I first joined them, so I would make every effort to encourage detailed, original and controversial posts.

I agree with you and appreciate a good debate as much as the next guy, but in the Batsuit Master Thread? No, that's not cool. His long-winded rants would have been better served somewhere else.

 

[darklord1967]

Everyone has the right to personal opinion, but jeez, Nolan's films are supposedly "pretentious"? Read over the same of things this guy said and we'll all get our fair share of unjustified/excessive claims for this month.

I agree with you and appreciate a good debate as much as the next guy, but in the Batsuit Master Thread? No, that's not cool. His long-winded rants would have been better served somewhere else.

You may be right. Perhaps this conversation was more appropriate elsewhere. And I'll be the first to admit I'm long-winded when it comes to The Batman. I have a lot to say.

But it seems to me that the issue you have is not my long-windedness, but the fact that you do not agree with my viewpoint. Which is fine.

This thread is about The Batsuit. That is true. But like any other conversation, on any other message board, the topic may wander a bit into semi-related points. This is only natural. After all, the "topic wandering" of this conversation cannot happen without the contributions of others.

But I do think it's laughable for you to reduce my posts to "pretentious explanations"... especially when I don't take MYSELF nor my opinion nearly that seriously.

I fully realize how ridiculous I am. Do you realize how ridiculous YOU are? After all, we are ALL pretty ridiculous (to one degree or other) by discussing the finer points of a fictional character who dresses as a bat.

The bottom line is I took the time to carefully flesh out my opinions with examples of moments from the films so that they WOULDN'T exist un-supported, in a pretentious vacuum.

I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about. I've given it a LOT of thought when it comes to this subject. I've though about it for a good chunk of my 44 years which, again, makes me pretty ridiculous.

But i also know enough to realize (as I've said several times before) that my opinion is no more valuable nor superior to anyone else's.

 

[darklord1967]

i have enjoyed catching up with this thread.. also with the inclusion of the Dark Lord himself... enjoyable rants...

Why thank you sir. You are most kind. t:

... agree on most parts, but i will be honest. You seem to leave out Burton's Bat films when you are discussing the "flaws" , "not paying attention to source material"... and other "crimes" of the other live action films. The worst "Batman" films to me will always be the Schumaker films... no contest...The biggest "F" up as far as source material?... Burton is guilty from his very first film... the absence of Joe Chill... and source of the parents death.

Well I didn't go into detail on it. But in one of my previous posts, I did point out Burton's hand in all of this. Here is what I said:

But to be fair, Nolan isn't entirely at fault, here. This entire Bat-disaster started back in 1989 when Tim Burton (another non-comic book reader), in his infinite wisdom, decided that he should cast a short, balding comedian as Bruce Wayne / The Batman. The tone for all of this wildly diverging Batman "creative license” on film was set then. Schumacher and Nolan just took that ball and ran with it.

I like what Nolan has done.. it's a different take... and he pays a lot more attention to the source material overall i would say than the other Directors ever did... but i do agree on the "Batman" himself not being done right yet..

oh ya.. "Deadend" ? pajama's... please.. i like the colors. The cowl is ok... but it looked like what it was. An Adam West suit with a different cowl.. with backwards pointed ears...

"Pajamas"!! Good one!! Look, I know cloth tights is not for everyone. I understand that. Really i do. But, for me... I definitely prefer tights to ugly sculpted armor. One of this things I LOVE so much about the Dead End suit is how simple and Low-Tech it appears. As I articulated before, It's how I see the character optimally.

i digress... I agree with your no armor view... i also do think that Batman should be much more like a Ninja... quiet... and operate much more in the shadows... That said... i think Nolan is the only guy to get close to that so far... the first time Batman shows up in "Begins" was fun... to me, the movie lost a bit after Falcone was strapped to the signal... but before that... i thought they had it.

Mmmm... I would agree with that.

I too grew up watching Superman by Donner in the theaters... a great experience it was, but i remember thinking that the second half of the film was REALLY campy.

Wow. Really? Alright. Fair enough.

Christopher R. did a great job in the lead... but even watching it then.. the camp that entered the film after it arrived in Metropolis went south a bit in my book. The first half of Donner's Superman was epic... with the fall of his father.. epic... just like the first half of "Begins" to me. Nolan handled the first half and the Death of the Wayne's really well to me. They both get a bit "for the masses" after that... but the first half of both of those films i hold in high regard. "Superman" got the hero dead on... but as a film?... i regard it in the same book as "Begins". Batman as the character just hasn't been nailed yet... after so many films?... i'm still waiting..

I see what you're saying. I do think think that it is only fair to point out, though, that Superman's world of Metropolis is a much, much "lighter" place than The Batman humorless cesspool of Gotham. Maybe a little levity was more appropriate in a Superman film?

and i have to question anyone that says "Begins" or "Knight" are worse films than "Forever" or "B and R"?
even "Returns" is kind of crap when watched again... "Begins" or "Knight" worst ever?... to each their own i guess... but you ARE the only person i've ever heard say those words.

Well, I think they are ALL wildly off the mark, and pretty bad in my book. But admittedly, in my zeal, I may have over-stated things a bit. There is certainly much more substance and respect for The Batman character in Nolan's films than there is in Schumacher's.

I think that Nolan had far more potential than any of the other films so far... got more of it right than any of the others so far...

I don't know. Perhaps he did. But when you dislike ALL of these films as intensely as I do (for the myriad of reasons that I do), their shortcomings all start to blend together in your mind after a while.

I have to say though... i do agree with your view on the Batman character... they haven't got that one right yet in any of the films... "Begins" got pretty close in the first half... but didn't carry it through...

Less talking... even hardly any at all... He shouldn't have to "TELL" people who he is.. if i see another Bat film where the character has to actually say... "I'm Batman"... i mean come on. Isn't that the point?.. Scare the **** out of them... kick their ass and subdue the bad-guy... and bail in to the shadows like a ghost... poooof....no more explaining it with words...

Exactly. In fact, I think it's supremely CORNY for these (one-screen) superheroes to even consciously give themselves a name! It seems a little vain to me. I think Richard Donner understood this when he made Superman: the Movie. He had Lois Lane (a media reporter) coin the phrase "What a Super man... SUPERMAN!" This is one of those areas of "creative license that I think worked beautifully in that film: The "S" logo NOT being an "S" at all but a Kryptonian El-family crest (one that is mistaken for the letter "S" by newspaper publisher Perry White). That costume having no revealed Earthly origin...

Similarly, In The Batman universe, I think it is the press (or the Police) who should be the ones to come up with the general PROFILE DESCRIPTION (not name) "The Bat-Man". I love how at the start of Tim Burton's first film, street thugs referred to this spooky urban legend as "The Bat". It made perfect sense. It gave the character a mystical aura. But shortly after that, Michael Keaton showed up and ruined it all by opening his mouth and saying "I'm Batman". Groan!!!!!!

and as far as the topic... the suit?
i really like the renderings done using Cap's suit from Avengers..
I will always want to see a black and grey suit...no oval please... and no yellow belt that looks like it came from a costume shop.
a black Bat over grey... do the bad guys need to see it?... no... not at all.
no trunks...

Aww... No yellow belt or oval? Come on. One does want a hint of color.t:
And No trunks? For me, the trunks help break up the visual asethetic that would otherwise make The Batman look overly tall and lanky. But again, that's just me.

I don't think it needs to have armor, but it needs to look like it has some substantial thickness to it.. as in the material. Perhaps to help with the elements... hanging out all night in the rain on a roof-top could get chilly if one was only in spandex or pajama's...

Again with the "pajamas"! LOL! LOL! You're killin' me...

so far that CA manip is the most impressive one so far... cowl wise, i think the "panther" sculpt was the closest to Neal Adams for me.. before the foam shrank and had a hard time fitting around Val's head..But i liked the original sculpt. Something like that design... blended in to the cape... right over the CA manip...
done... my $.02...

Yes, the "Panther" sculpt WAS very yummy!! An AWESOME-looking cowl!

 

[kit1982]

I agree with you and appreciate a good debate as much as the next guy, but in the Batsuit Master Thread? No, that's not cool. His long-winded rants would have been better served somewhere else.

The problem is this thread is really the only place where you can view your doubts about a Nolan film. If he said any of this in TDKR section he'd have people pitchforks and all at his door within 5 seconds of hitting the post button. I've just been reading some of the posts in there, I mean someone puts a perfectly civil post on why they don't like the sound of TDKR ending and is met with a volley of abuse. Post the same thing in this thread and you can actually have a discussion about it.

 

[Vigilant]

I love the black and grey outfit and I would love to see something like this in the reboot. I think, the black/grey-combination can work very well on the silver screen.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Too smooth and texture-less for my taste. Also, not liking the Adam West belt and the trunks aren't necessary on that suit.

 

[The Shape]

The problem is this thread is really the only place where you can view your doubts about a Nolan film. If he said any of this in TDKR section he'd have people pitchforks and all at his door within 5 seconds of hitting the post button. I've just been reading some of the posts in there, I mean someone puts a perfectly civil post on why they don't like the sound of TDKR ending and is met with a volley of abuse. Post the same thing in this thread and you can actually have a discussion about it.

Wrong, anyone can make a thread or start a discussion outside of the TDKR forum. If someone wants to discuss (in length) their issues with Nolan's 2 Batsuits, this is the thread. If someone wants to dissect every problem aspect of his 2 films, this is simply not the place.

 

[The Shape]

That suit is awesome and looks like it was literally ripped from the comics. For the next film, I think I'd like a little more variation in certain places.

 

[cryptic name]

Oh I think I understand The Batman character QUITE well. And I never once said The Batman ended up being "fooled". Not sure where you got that.

I only questioned what the (dramatic) point was of speeding toward The Joker in the Bat-Pod (complete with a warrior yell), and NOT even finding a clever way of capturing or incapacitating him... especially with all that technology and training at his disposal.

That's not loyalty to the comics, by the way. That's just plain ol' good action story-telling / staging, dude.

I am not suggesting (in either example) that The Batman should have just killed The Joker. I'm well aware that The Batman does not kill. I would not want to see that.

But the slick, elegant guy from the comics would have maybe somersaulted off of the bike at the last second and knocked The Joker out with a deftly timed kick, a punch, or a sleeper hold... anything!

But skidding and breaking his ass?? Really???


Speaking of "heightened reality": Even if I bought the logic that any dirt on Harvey Dent would result in the release of the criminals he has put away (which I most certainly do NOT), that would have ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on what happened to him and the crimes he perpetrated as Two-Face.

That is not based in any kind of "reality" that I know of, (and, FYI, I spent 10 years working in Federal Law Enforcement). Short of the arising of new evidence that indicates evidence against defendants was manufactured or falsified during trial, or that there was prosecutorial misconduct, surpressed or planted evidence, improper investigations by law-enforcement, or false accusations to begin with, criminals CANNOT just arbitrarily be set free. It never works that way.

Harvey Dent going nuts and killing a bunch of people is all a defense attorney would need to get a more favorable ruling in appeals. Not to mention the more pressing reason they gave for hiding the truth was protecting Harvey's legacy with the people of Gotham.

Also, this idea you you have that Batman is ALWAYS cool, calm, and collected just doesn't jive with any interpretation of the character. I would even say the best Batman stories involve him getting emotional at some point, as would be the case if he learned that the woman he'd loved since he was a boy was about to be blown up. I would say that was even what's so great about the Joker, he's able to get under Batman's thick skin and get a reaction out of him. Afterall, who wants to watch a movie where the main character is a complete emotional flatline? We love Batman because he is damaged, he is often stoic and tries to hide everything behind a cold veneer, but he's a passionate man (as anyone who puts on a batsuit and fights crime would be) and sometimes that shows through.

I also have to comment on the on the interrogation scene. The point of the way that scene is staged, with the bright light you hate so much, is that it's a part of the an overarching theme. Batman begins this movie thinking that he has become something of an honorary cop, kind of losing sight of what the Batman persona is and is supposed to be. It's about Bruce learning that Batman can't work that way, as evidenced by what happened to Harvey Dent. And the "staging" of that scene is part of that arc. All that said, in my opinion it's just a badass scene that perfectly captures the relationship between Batman and the Joker.

 

[The Shape]

I also have to comment on the on the interrogation scene. The point of the way that scene is staged, with the bright light you hate so much, is that it's a part of the an overarching theme. Batman begins this movie thinking that he has become something of an honorary cop, kind of losing sight of what the Batman persona is and is supposed to be. It's about Bruce learning that Batman can't work that way, as evidenced by what happened to Harvey Dent. And the "staging" of that scene is part of that arc. All that said, in my opinion it's just a badass scene that perfectly captures the relationship between Batman and the Joker.

Yeah, the interrogation scene is the best in the film. The poster who started this debate claimed it was "pretentious" because the Joker said to much and explained his philosophy to Batman. Well, guess what? THAT'S WHAT THE JOKER ALWAYS DOES. He is constantly giving long-winded speeches and monologues, trying to **** with Batman in any way that he can. This goes not only for the comics, but for the much revered animated series of the 90s.

Batman sits there listening to the Joker's mad rambles, but he also knows that everything the Joker says is completely true...that's what makes the scene so great. Then, Batman becomes and enraged and is literally beating the Joker to a pulp, powerless to this madmen who just LAUGHS at him. Straight out of the comics. Who gives a flying **** is the lights are on?

 

[regwec]

The Joker's conversation with Two Face in the hospital was a more effective version of the same scene, in my opinion.

 

[cryptic name]

The Joker's conversation with Two Face in the hospital was a more effective version of the same scene, in my opinion.

To a point, and that is also an awesome scene. But the interrogation scene gives more insight into Joker and Batman's relationship as an almost symbiotic organism.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, the interrogation scene is the best in the film. The poster who started this debate claimed it was "pretentious" because the Joker said to much and explained his philosophy to Batman. Well, guess what? THAT'S WHAT THE JOKER ALWAYS DOES. He is constantly giving long-winded speeches and monologues, trying to **** with Batman in any way that he can. This goes not only for the comics, but for the much revered animated series of the 90s.

Batman sits there listening to the Joker's mad rambles, but he also knows that everything the Joker says is completely true...that's what makes the scene so great. Then, Batman becomes and enraged and is literally beating the Joker to a pulp, powerless to this madmen who just LAUGHS at him. Straight out of the comics. Who gives a flying **** is the lights are on?

Exactly.

I remember in The Killing Joke where Joker was rambling on to Batman about insanity and how one bad day is all it takes. Even making analogies to how World War 1 started over telegraph poles.

 

[Young Superman]

I love the black and grey outfit and I would love to see something like this in the reboot. I think, the black/grey-combination can work very well on the silver screen.

I like this.

 

[isaias7]

Can someone do one with Superman's MOS new costume, that would be perfect, just a bit of an armor look like the Batman suit in Arkham City. iFried's pic of MOS would be perfect.

 

[Jochimus]

Also, this idea you you have that Batman is ALWAYS cool, calm, and collected just doesn't jive with any interpretation of the character.

Adam West's was...and I'm not totally joking, either.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I love the black and grey outfit and I would love to see something like this in the reboot. I think, the black/grey-combination can work very well on the silver screen.

i'd love something like that for the next set of films. only i'd make it look more armor like. kind of how it looks in the Arkham games.

 

[regwec]

I think that would just end up being another rubber wetsuit.

I don't quite understand some people's admiration for the "Arkham" Batsuit. I suspect it might just be a product of its association with some great games. The suit itself, in my opinion, is just the modern comic book Batsuit made to look really ugly by a pin-head and absurd gorilla-glove gauntlets.

 

[isaias7]

I think that would just end up being another rubber wetsuit.

I don't quite understand some people's admiration for the "Arkham" Batsuit. I suspect it might just be a product of its association with some great games. The suit itself, in my opinion, is just the modern comic book Batsuit made to look really ugly by a pin-head and absurd gorilla-glove gauntlets.

I think the the Arkham suit has some problems but what I like about it is that is not an armor/rubber suit but the details on the suit makes it look bullet-proof.

 

[Two-Face]

did anyone see Batman AC's suit on Wii U? He's armored ‎like AA Bats.