The Brave and the Bold News and Discussion Thread

[SwordOfMorning]

If Legacy along with some other movies on the slate are a success and Brave & The Bold isn't then one assumes they'd just march forward and build their Batman up in ensemble films. Which might be where he'll primarily be seen anyway. It would absolutely not be as catastrophic as Legacy tanking because in this theoretical timeline where Legacy is a success and Brave & The Bold isn't then there is something to fall back on and signs of audience interest in the broader story they're telling.

 

[FunkMiller]

If it could be after The Batman Part 3, that’d be lovely

 

[SwordOfMorning]

There is something pretty funny about how clearly this movie exists solely as an obligation because they have to make a Batman movie for their big last ditch effort at a cinematic universe even though they literally just started a popular and successful new franchise.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I’m really not feeling the idea of the Authority being introduced in Superman Legacy. It’s way too soon, I think it’s really a dumb idea to bring that team in BEFORE the Justice League. Horrible idea.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I’m really not feeling the idea of the Authority being introduced in Superman Legacy. It’s way too soon, I think it’s really a dumb idea to bring that team in BEFORE the Justice League. Horrible idea.

I can see the logic. Cold be they're introduced as Stormwatch and explicitly a Government run team with a very different way of doing things than the JL, especially if Gunn's Superman has a bit of a hostile relationship with the government like young Clark does in some versions. There are a few ways I can see it working, its not what I'd put in a first Superman movie but ultimately I want to be surprised by a creators original take on the material more than I want my own personal fan checklist filled out.

Part of the fun for me is seeing these characters and their relationships with each other remixed in wildly different ways.

 

[emielaen]

I don't see why there being no JL means you can't have another group of people as pro/antagonists. I also imagine there will be an actual opposing threat that both The Authority and Superman will want to eliminate. The conflict between the two will be in their approaches to defeating it. That's pretty simple and a JL isn't needed to make that make sense. On paper at least. I get what you mean optically, but eh. Storytelling wise, it ain't inherently harmful.

Them being players here makes more sense right now then them even having their own film.

But even then, The Authority are cool and i'm tired of Zod and Lex (I want Lex here as a small but formaidble player), the former moreso. Brainiac could be cool, but could also be an even bigger bad. You could say the same about The Authority too really. Characters like Metallo or Parasite led by whomever is also fine, but it's just kinda standard. The Authority doesn't seem standard to me. It seems exciting. I'm thinking about how cool they could look and who could portray them and how interesting it could be given their philosphy to world-saving.

 

[Invader Joker]

If Legacy along with some other movies on the slate are a success and Brave & The Bold isn't then one assumes they'd just march forward and build their Batman up in ensemble films. Which might be where he'll primarily be seen anyway. It would absolutely not be as catastrophic as Legacy tanking because in this theoretical timeline where Legacy is a success and Brave & The Bold isn't then there is something to fall back on and signs of audience interest in the broader story they're telling.

Is there something to fall back on though? Because even if Legacy is a success, the chances of The Authority being a success and Supergirl making more than 500 million are filmsy at best. Swamp Thing would be lucky to crack 150 million. Aside from Legacy, the only other film they have that could make them more than 600 million dollars is pretty much just Brave and the Bold. (Also it's the only other film that'll have merchandising sales worth anything, as Batman merch always sells)

And the chances of Superman being a mega homerun are also quite slim because of how the DC brand has been devalued. I do think the film will be good enough it'll have decent run overall, but as I've said in the Superman thread, I think the chances of it opening super high are really, really low. It'd be a pretty safe bet to assume, right now, that Legacy will make at most 600 million or something like that, which with a good reception would be a step in the right direction, but that can hardly carry the weight on its own of a new universe. They'll need another big gun to support this universe, and it sure as hell ain't gonna be The Authority, Supergirl or Swamp Thing. All those 3 films will be lucky to break even. (And breaking even would be enough to mark those 3 films as successes)

Superman and Batman both having critically acclaimed movies back to back with 600-700 million would, however, be more than enough to boost this universe enough to make it relevant. If Brave and the Bold fails it'd be a lot more complicated because if their Batman can't make more than 700 million... then what the **** can? It also makes things a lot more complicated for team-ups since their Batman wouldn't be a draw, and the whole point of connected universe is that each character can be a draw of their own.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

To be nervous about Gunn’s DCU is perfectly natural. Aside from a few examples of lightning in a bottle, audiences are not feeling DC. It’s just a fact, and it’s going to be an uphill battle for Gunn.

The Authority is the last thing I would be focusing on when trying to establish a new DC Universe. And i know he’s not confirmed for the movie but I absolutely hate Manchester Black, he’s such a boring villain who is little more than a plot device to showcase Superman’s morality.

I think there’s a really good chance that Gunn’s DCU crashes and burns. I don’t want that to happen, but I could see his DCU being critically successful but not financially.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

To be nervous about Gunn’s DCU is perfectly natural. Aside from a few examples of lightning in a bottle, audiences are not feeling DC. It’s just a fact, and it’s going to be an uphill battle for Gunn.

The Authority is the last thing I would be focusing on when trying to establish a new DC Universe. And i know he’s not confirmed for the movie but I absolutely hate Manchester Black, he’s such a boring villain who is little more than a plot device to showcase Superman’s morality.

I think there’s a really good chance that Gunn’s DCU crashes and burns. I don’t want that to happen, but I could see his DCU being critically successful but not financially.

Critically successful but not financially is honestly my bet as well, I don't think any of his slate will be as successful as the two upcoming Elseworlds films will be. Would be happy to be wrong though, his slate is a lot more appealing to my personal DC fandom than I ever would have expected.

Ultimately that doesn't really matter to me - I'd take a handful of really interesting well regarded movies that peter out over a long running franchise that isn't as interesting, I truly do not need a DC universe on film. It's a fun idea but feels doomed to devolve into a reactionary mess the second something goes wrong. I want to see these characters given to filmmakers with strong authorial voices that reshape them in unique and striking ways, a rigidly overseen cinematic universe is anathema to that.

Agreed about Manchester Black. I like him a lot as a supporting character in recent Superman comics but that's because Morrison and other writers made him an actual person and not a strawman punching bag.

 

[Invader Joker]

To be nervous about Gunn’s DCU is perfectly natural. Aside from a few examples of lightning in a bottle, audiences are not feeling DC. It’s just a fact, and it’s going to be an uphill battle for Gunn.

The Authority is the last thing I would be focusing on when trying to establish a new DC Universe. And i know he’s not confirmed for the movie but I absolutely hate Manchester Black, he’s such a boring villain who is little more than a plot device to showcase Superman’s morality.

I think there’s a really good chance that Gunn’s DCU crashes and burns. I don’t want that to happen, but I could see his DCU being critically successful but not financially.

I think it can be succesful, but they kinda need to play their hands right with the order. If both Batman and Superman succeed, the rest will become much, much easier. And I do think he needs both of them to succeed, not just one or the other. Same with Wonder Woman when he gets around to her.

 

[solidsnake86]

There is something pretty funny about how clearly this movie exists solely as an obligation because they have to make a Batman movie for their big last ditch effort at a cinematic universe even though they literally just started a popular and successful new franchise.

It's all very interesting and I would be curious to see if the original intention when Hamada was around was to eventually bring in Matt Reeves' batman through a crisis movie. It also seems clear to me that they were setting up Gunn's superman to be like the batman movie as well, that is, before Gunn became the boss.

I'm sure Gunn approached Reeves and truthfully, why would you ever agree to integrate your Batman when you haven't even seen what your Superman movie looks like and if it's accepted. I don't think we see this movie until the third batman movie is in production. There is no way they get a great script without a few years of working on it.

 

[Invader Joker]

It's all very interesting and I would be curious to see if the original intention when Hamada was around was to eventually bring in Matt Reeves' batman through a crisis movie. It also seems clear to me that they were setting up Gunn's superman to be like the batman movie as well, that is, before Gunn became the boss.

I'm sure Gunn approached Reeves and truthfully, why would you ever agree to integrate your Batman when you haven't even seen what your Superman movie looks like and if it's accepted. I don't think we see this movie until the third batman movie is in production. There is no way they get a great script without a few years of working on it.

Well, it is perfectly plausible if they have great people working on it.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I agree, if they have great writers on the script, it will increase the chances of getting a great script.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

After seeing Across the Spider-Verse, I hope this movie goes wild when it comes to the look of the film.

TBH for Damien, I think big-budget animation would be better than live action.

 

[emielaen]

I need to know who’s writing and that won’t be revealed for a while. By then, we could even have a new director.

Although he’s hit or miss for me, Edgar Wright seems like a cool choice. But idk. I’d like someone interesting, like Lowery, for example.

 

[squeekness]

After seeing Across the Spider-Verse, I hope this movie goes wild when it comes to the look of the film.

TBH for Damien, I think big-budget animation would be better than live action.

Looking at that art I'd have to very much agree. Yummy.

 

[SonsOfKrypto]

I just don't get it. Why start with Damien and not Dick? We've never had a proper adaptation of Dick Grayson's Robin.

I would've liked to have seen Dick actually *become* Nightwing, and us start with Barbara as Batgirl, and Bruce new to having a Robin.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I just don't get it. Why start with Damien and not Dick? We've never had a proper adaptation of Dick Grayson's Robin.

I would've liked to have seen Dick actually *become* Nightwing, and us start with Barbara as Batgirl, and Bruce new to having a Robin.

Because Damian is a great, funny, weird, dynamic character and Bruce's messy, complicated dynamic with Dick as Nighwing is the most interesting part of their relationship. It'd be nice to see the Robin origin story play out on screen but, tbh, Grayson has been Nightwing for so long in the comics now that it's the primary identity I associate with him.

It also makes the world feel lived in and like it has a history.

 

[Boom]

I just don't get it. Why start with Damien and not Dick? We've never had a proper adaptation of Dick Grayson's Robin.

I would've liked to have seen Dick actually *become* Nightwing, and us start with Barbara as Batgirl, and Bruce new to having a Robin.

It's a way of grandfathering the Bat Family into the DCU without having to do a ton of setup.

 

[TMP98]

With those Mission reviews, I can't even imagine how perfect someone like McQ would be on an action-oriented Bat-film. All things being equal, him and Stahelski made the most amount of sense even though there was like a 1% chance either would even consider it

 

[SonsOfKrypto]

It's a way of grandfathering the Bat Family into the DCU without having to do a ton of setup.

Because Damian is a great, funny, weird, dynamic character and Bruce's messy, complicated dynamic with Dick as Nighwing is the most interesting part of their relationship. It'd be nice to see the Robin origin story play out on screen but, tbh, Grayson has been Nightwing for so long in the comics now that it's the primary identity I associate with him.

It also makes the world feel lived in and like it has a history.

But the MCU didn't get where it is by taking the easy way out, and skipping set up, world building. No, Feige put in the work, to actually build the MCU, and audiences rewarded him.

Rushing things is how we got BvS

 

[Invader Joker]

But the MCU didn't get where it is by taking the easy way out, and skipping set up, world building. No, Feige put in the work, to actually build the MCU, and audiences rewarded him.

Rushing things is how we got BvS

You want another young Batman story after we're already into that with Reeves version? lol This was the best option they had for a DCU Batman.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

But the MCU didn't get where it is by taking the easy way out, and skipping set up, world building. No, Feige put in the work, to actually build the MCU, and audiences rewarded him.

Rushing things is how we got BvS

It isn't not putting in the work it is just starting at a later point in the timeline. There have been literal decades of Batman stories where he's got a fully established Bat Family and Dick is Nightwing. The dynamic between the Bat Family is wonderful, rich and complicated and at its best when it is fully formed - why waste multiple movies setting it up when you can just immediately explore it? You're just starting at the most interesting part of the story.

If anything a world where you already have these characters fully established to explore opens more opportunities for world building. I would love to see the whole story arc of Bruce and Dick play out in detail but it is a perfectly valid, functional choice to start later on.

 

[emielaen]

BvS wasn’t bad because it was rushed. It’s because it was bad.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

BvS wasn’t bad because it was rushed. It’s because it was bad.

I'd also argue BvS had massively insufficient world building. A late career Batman with no surviving Bat Family? Apart from the classic Dead Robin costume all you really got about his history were vague comments - nothing substantive.