The camp has been erased for a reason.

[SHADOWBAT69]

But I sometimes wonder, if we continued to get TAS year after year, would it still be as special as it is to us today? and would it be able to survive this long without killing itself? I see no reason why we couldnt get a DTV TAS project, but for current television animation, I see nothing wrong with BTBATB.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

Batman: The Animated Series was so great there is no reason not to resurrect it and continue it. Why settle for anything less?

Because rehashing the same thing over and over will get stale.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

No criticisms allowed? If you don't like what I'm saying, that's fine. I'm still entitled to express my opinions. We don't all have to blindly conform and support this series.

Criticism is allowed, but all the complaints against this show has basically boiled down to the detractors wanting the show made specifically for them. I mean we get it; you like TAS more. It's widely available on DVD, so just go and watch that instead of whining.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Because rehashing the same thing over and over will get stale.

If it's new episodes we've never seen before with characters from the DCU we've never seen on the show and story lines we have never seen on the show before it wouldn't be "rehashing the same thing over and over." The potential for Batman: The Animated Series is practically limitless. There are so many more story lines from the comics that could be adapted onto the show that just wouldn't fit this lighter Brave and Bold series with this lighter version of Batman.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Criticism is allowed, but all the complaints against this show has basically boiled down to the detractors wanting the show made specifically for them. I mean we get it; you like TAS more. It's widely available on DVD, so just go and watch that instead of whining.

I am not whining, I am merely criticizing this show. Of course people want the new Batman show to appeal to them, and many people prefer their Batman dark and mysterious, so we happen to be disappointed with this new show. And yes, I watch my Batman: The Animated Series DVD's often and I would love it if new episodes would be made someday.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

If it's new episodes we've never seen before with characters from the DCU we've never seen on the show and story lines we have never seen on the show before it wouldn't be "rehashing the same thing over and over." The potential for Batman: The Animated Series is practically limitless. There are so many more story lines from the comics that could be adapted onto the show that just wouldn't fit this lighter Brave and Bold series with this lighter version of Batman.

It's not limitless. Look at the Simpsons, for example. The newer shows aren't terrible, but there are still plenty of detractors. And there are plenty of story lines that couldn't be adapted for a more serious series, so it's a rather moot point anyhow.

I am not whining, I am merely criticizing this show. Of course people want the new Batman show to appeal to them, and many people prefer their Batman dark and mysterious, so we happen to be disappointed with this new show. And yes, I watch my Batman: The Animated Series DVD's often and I would love it if new episodes would be made someday.

You're not really criticizing the show, though. You're just complaining that this show isn't TAS, which is something it's not trying to be.

 

[theMan-Bat]

It's not limitless. Look at the Simpsons, for example. The newer shows aren't terrible, but there are still plenty of detractors.

Your comparing Batman: The Animated Series to the Simpsons? Poor comparison. Completely different kinds of shows. The only thing in common is they are both animated. I never watch the Simpsons. I could never get past the fact that they are yellow and the fact that they just annoy me. Why are they yellow?

And there are plenty of story lines that couldn't be adapted for a more serious series, so it's a rather moot point anyhow.

Which Batman story lines are your referring to that couldn't be adapted for the serious series?

You're not really criticizing the show, though. You're just complaining that this show isn't TAS, which is something it's not trying to be.

And that's a shame. It should be aspiring to achieve the greatness that is Batman: The Animated Series. And I am criticizing the show. I'm point out what are, in my opinion, the faults of the show.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Your comparing Batman: The Animated Series to the Simpsons? Poor comparison. Completely different kinds of shows. The only thing in common is they are both animated. I never watch the Simpsons. I could never get past the fact that they are yellow and the fact that they just annoy me. Why are they yellow?

That is a silly criticism and it would be wise of you not to say something like that again, if you criticize the Simpsons for being yellow you open your argument for all sorts of responses and makes you appear as if you would hate this show for immature reasons as well.

Which Batman story lines are your referring to that couldn't be adapted for the serious series?

How about the one where Batman must defeat Kite man in his own Whirly Bat across the airline of Gotham and still make it to Robin's birthday in time? Granted this is a ridiculous example, but it just goes to show that it is unrealistic to expect all translations to equal a mature and dark content. Neither are they better through it.

And that's a shame. It should be aspiring to achieve the greatness that is Batman: The Animated Series. And I am criticizing the show. I'm point out what are, in my opinion, the faults of the show.

It is aspiring to achieve the greatness that is BTAS by doing something daring and new. It would of surely failed had it tried what you would have wanted. Fortunately they surprised us with a refreshing take on the caped crusader with snappy dialog and a Batman who isn't constantly reminding us his parents are dead, while still remaining in character.

If you are to point out criticisms try and find them in dialog, plotting, animation and scripts as opposed to constantly mocking the fun premise.

 

[theMan-Bat]

That is a silly criticism and it would be wise of you not to say something like that again, if you criticize the Simpsons for being yellow you open your argument for all sorts of responses and makes you appear as if you would hate this show for immature reasons as well.

Oh, I will say something like "Why are the Simpsons yellow?" again all I like. I really don't get why they are yellow, and I'm not afraid to admit that I've never liked the Simpsons. I don't hate them, I just don't find them entertaining. We don't all have to like the same things.

How about the one where Batman must defeat Kite man in his own Whirly Bat across the airline of Gotham and still make it to Robin's birthday in time?

What issue is that? And by the way, there are sillier ones than that. Much sillier. In the 1950s Jack Schiff converted him -- you know, a Rainbow Batman, he went to other planets, all kinds of awful stuff got done to the character.

Granted this is a ridiculous example, but it just goes to show that it is unrealistic to expect all translations to equal a mature and dark content. Neither are they better through it.

I never stated that I expect all translations to equal a mature and dark content.

It is aspiring to achieve the greatness that is BTAS by doing something daring and new.

Doing something daring and new? There is really nothing new about this Batman. This is the 1950s/1960s Silver Age Batman who still existed on TV in the 1970s on the Super Friends and The New Adventures of Batman cartoon shows I watched when I was a kid. And team ups are nothing new or daring.

It would of surely failed had it tried what you would have wanted.

How do you figure that?

Fortunately they surprised us with a refreshing take on the caped crusader with snappy dialog and a Batman who isn't constantly reminding us his parents are dead, while still remaining in character.

There is nothing refreshing or new about this Super Friends take to me. And the Batman in Batman: The Animated Series isn't constantly reminding us his parents are dead.

If you are to point out criticisms try and find them in dialog, plotting, animation and scripts as opposed to constantly mocking the fun premise.

Alright, since you asked, in my opinion the dialogue is really bland and generic, Batman is goofy looking, the theme song is ridiculously peppy for Batman, and the plotting and scripts are is far too light, silly and whimsical for my tastes without being truly funny. With Batman - he can either be dark and mysterious, or he can become softer, mushier, nicer, in which case he just don't work as a character because the whole point of becoming Batman is to become a frightening creature of the night striking terror. They seem to have castrated the character in this series for kids. Batman only really works as a character if the world is essentially a malevolent, frightening place.

 

[Evil Twin]

The Brave and the Bold is a perfectly reasonable adaptation of Bob Haney's Brave and the Bold. Heck, they haven't gotten nearly as far out and unbeholden to continuity and consistent characterization as Haney did. Go check out a plot synopsis of most of Haney's run, if you think I'm exagerrating.

Considering that The Brave and the Bold Batman teamups had a nearly 20 year history with the majority of it written by Bob Haney, that's a significant chunk of Batman's history that hadn't been touched by animation, and certainly the teamups we've gotten in animation prior captured none of the energy and spirit of Haney's work.

Do people criticize the Johnny DC line for not being adult oriented? Because, that's what I'm getting here from the critics. Not a criticism of the specific shows, the animation quality, the plotting, the action, the dialogue, the characterization, the themes, but merely the fact that it's aimed at kids.

Edit: FWIW, I thought the Kite Man sequence in the second episode indicated that they have much more flexibility in presenting Batman in this series than is suspected. A few shadows thrown around here and there does make a difference. I could easily see a Phantom Stranger team up working.

 

[Syncos]

But I sometimes wonder, if we continued to get TAS year after year, would it still be as special as it is to us today? and would it be able to survive this long without killing itself? I see no reason why we couldnt get a DTV TAS project, but for current television animation, I see nothing wrong with BTBATB.

The point isn't to remake TAS. The point is that the series should be a series that gives people, including kids the benefit of the doubt. They're not stupid, they don't need camp or dumbed down series. The show should be written on a level that anyone can enjoy it. TAS was. With that bar set, it's kinda hard for a show targeted at a demographic to hit it.

Why target a show towards toddlers, when you can have a show that toddlers, children, preteens, teens, and adults can all enjoy equally?

Criticism is allowed, but all the complaints against this show has basically boiled down to the detractors wanting the show made specifically for them. I mean we get it; you like TAS more. It's widely available on DVD, so just go and watch that instead of whining.

People aren't looking for a show tailor made for them.
You think the adults posting here want an adult oriented Batman? Possibly. But that sure as hell isn't TAS, which everyone is comparing it to.

People want the show to be good, and be able to enjoy it for more than just nostalgia when they rewatch it in 10 years.

 

[theMan-Bat]

The Brave and the Bold is a perfectly reasonable adaptation of Bob Haney's Brave and the Bold. Heck, they haven't gotten nearly as far out and unbeholden to continuity and consistent characterization as Haney did. Go check out a plot synopsis of most of Haney's run, if you think I'm exagerrating.

Considering that The Brave and the Bold Batman teamups had a nearly 20 year history with the majority of it written by Bob Haney, that's a significant chunk of Batman's history that hadn't been touched by animation, and certainly the teamups we've gotten in animation prior captured none of the energy and spirit of Haney's work.

I love some of those Bob Haney/Neal Adams/Jim Aparo Brave and Bold team ups myself. But that wasn't the lighter Dick Sprang Batman or Super Friends Batman their presenting in this show, he was the darker Neal Adams version in those comics. Denny O'Neil's Batman basically, more in line with Batman in Batman: The Animated Series.

Do people criticize the Johnny DC line for not being adult oriented? Because, that's what I'm getting here from the critics. Not a criticism of the specific shows, the animation quality, the plotting, the action, the dialogue, the characterization, the themes, but merely the fact that it's aimed at kids.

Why aim the show just at the kids? Why not aim it at everyone?

Edit: FWIW, I thought the Kite Man sequence in the second episode indicated that they have much more flexibility in presenting Batman in this series than is suspected. A few shadows thrown around here and there does make a difference.

I agree. That sequence was a little better.

I could easily see a Phantom Stranger team up working.

If they darken it up appropriately and not brighten it up for the kids and make it too juvenile.

 

[spiderfan970]

They aren't dumbing this down. This is the show that they wanted to make. If they wanted to make another BTAS or another show that might appeal more to both adults and children, they obviously could.

Actually, if they're making it for anyone, it's themselves! They're focusing on a different version of Batman that they grew up with, (FROM THE COMICS) and focusing on different aspects of the character. This is the kind of show that they would love to watch, and it's also the kind of show that I would love to watch.

On a side note, I can't see how anyone was surprised that it would be a Dick Sprang Batman when James Tucker was announced as a producer after seeing what he story-boarded in the TNBA episode "Legends of the Dark Knight" He did that entire retro 50s Batman vs. the Joker section. He has a passion for this version of Batman and it's just as legitimate a passion as ours for a darker Batman. So let him make the cartoon that he's wanted to make.

People here are looking at this like it's the end of the world. This is NOT the last Batman cartoon series, there will be more. This is a stepping stone in the history of an icon. This is one person's take combining two eras into one great action cartoon.

If it isn't your cup of tea...then move along. That's what I did with The Batman. At first, yeah, I didn't like it right away so I didn't watch it. Then later on some episodes were appealing to me so I watched them and enjoyed them. But don't come into the part of the board made for everyone that enjoys the show and post rants about how Batman needs to be "darker."

These criticisms aren't constructive, they're just whiney.

 

[theMan-Bat]

These criticisms aren't constructive, they're just whiney.

Legitimate critique demands improvement while useless whining demands only discontent. I've been pointing out what I think should be improved, plus I've been just expressing my opinions about this. That's what these boards are for.

 

[spiderfan970]

Legitimate critique demands improvement while useless whining demands only discontent. I've been pointing out what I think should be improved, plus I've been just expressing my opinions about this. That's what these boards are for.

Your only "critique" seems to be you saying over and over again that the cartoon show should be more appealing to older people. Maybe this show will evolve into that as the episodes go on, I don't know. I do know that there will be appearances by characters that seem "darker" (i.e. Etrigan, Deadman) Maybe you'll like those more.

 

[Jochimus]

Your only "critique" seems to be you saying over and over again that the cartoon show should be more appealing to older people. Maybe this show will evolve into that as the episodes go on, I don't know. I do know that there will be appearances by characters that seem "darker" (i.e. Etrigan, Deadman) Maybe you'll like those more.

I doubt that this show is going to "evolve" into something darker when the whole point of it is to make Batman a more inviting character, especially to that group whose parents are not likely to let them watch "The Dark Knight"; besides, by going back into dark it would just run the risk of becoming another B:TAS knockoff - even if the plots and villains do take a more sinister turn, I suspect this show's version of Batman would remain the snappy wiseacre that he is now just to keep things bright, which WOULD diminish the character as then he would essentially be reduced to comic relief.

The group that dislikes this show so vocally was NEVER going to like it no matter what, either because it's not dark or it's not B:TAS. And the funny thing is, the producers practically went out of their way to make sure Batman fans were aware of the drastic change in tone beforehand, whether by comprehensive interviews on fan sites or by little promo blurbs in TV Guide in the weeks before it aired. We were warned. Period.

 

[spiderfan970]

Haha, I'm just trying to give him something to work with here, but yeah I agree with you.

 

[Grommers]

Um, and we were complaining as soon as we read the first interviews saying it was a bad idea, we watched the episodes...realized its STILL a bad idea. Really it would be nice to take a bunch of the arguments and make both points in the main post, post arguments and counter-arguments. To see where we currently stand. I guess its kind of wrong of me to ask someone to do this, but I'm quite lazy, and currently am enjoying Batman : TAS. But I also think we'd get someone biased to do it. What else will be interesting to see how many seasons this show lasts...to me it failed if it lasts 2-3 seasons. Even "The Batman" lasted longer than that, we'll see though..only time will tell, unless they signed a contract guarenteeing them five, which then only ratings to me would be the deciding factor.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

Um, and we were complaining as soon as we read the first interviews saying it was a bad idea, we watched the episodes...realized its STILL a bad idea.

But can you at least see why complaining about it like a broken record can be annoying to those that *are* enjoying this show?

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Well, the fact of the matter is, Batman TAS is done. Its not going to be brought back or remade. Deal with it. All these "critiques" are nothing more than suggestions of how to turn it into TAS. It isnt going to happen. So coming on here *****ing and moaning about how this show is "campy", "dumb downed" story telling or sub par animation (which it isnt) isnt going to do any good. The creaters of this show stated up front exactly what it was they wanted to do. Bring back a more fun filled, action adventure Batman remniscent if the 60's show and comics. Thats what we got. Thats what we're going to have. All of the people complaing that this show isnt serious enough, dark enough, brooding enough, etc., are no different than the ones who have been complaining that the Batman shows/comics/cartoons werent fun enough, silly enough, or lite enough. Personally, I enjoy Batman in all his forms. Even if its not my favorite version, I can still enjoy it. Its really a shame that so many cant seem to get past the most modern version of Batman and grasp that there is a 70 year history of this character, and immerse themselves in such a colorful history of a pop culture icon.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Well, the fact of the matter is, Batman TAS is done. Its not going to be brought back or remade. Deal with it. All these "critiques" are nothing more than suggestions of how to turn it into TAS. It isnt going to happen. So coming on here *****ing and moaning about how this show is "campy", "dumb downed" story telling or sub par animation (which it isnt) isnt going to do any good. The creaters of this show stated up front exactly what it was they wanted to do. Bring back a more fun filled, action adventure Batman remniscent if the 60's show and comics. Thats what we got. Thats what we're going to have. All of the people complaing that this show isnt serious enough, dark enough, brooding enough, etc., are no different than the ones who have been complaining that the Batman shows/comics/cartoons werent fun enough, silly enough, or lite enough. Personally, I enjoy Batman in all his forms. Even if its not my favorite version, I can still enjoy it. Its really a shame that so many cant seem to get past the most modern version of Batman and grasp that there is a 70 year history of this character, and immerse themselves in such a colorful history of a pop culture icon.

Exactly. There are people stating left and right how they are "true fans" of Batman but the only version they'll accept is the modern dark one. Heck, some won't even accept an element of supernatural or a villain like Freeze in their stories. The fact of the matter is that this Batman is just as relevant as TAS or Burton's or Nolan's. You can enjoy an interpretation more than another, but to hate on one just because it is a lighter vision is ridiculous and reeks of selfishness for a single version that is actually infinitely flexible. A target demographic is not a crime and this series is still enjoyable for adults too, especially with some of the amusing dialog.

 

[Grommers]

Guys honestly....stop with the selfish comments, "SELFISH" doesn't make sense..
definition of selfish
Self"ish\, a. 1. Caring supremely or unduly for one's self; regarding one's own comfort, advantage, etc., in disregard, or at the expense, of those of others.


You guys don't care about the people who like the darker style t.v. show which would apply to EVERYONE. So honestly stop using that as an argument.


As for the broken record comment, to be honest reading through these posts, the people defending the show are the ones that are sounding more and more like a broken record..i'm pretty sure I've seen a counter argument to everyone of your guys arguments.

Such as

"Thats how the show is supposed to be."
- That doesnt make the show a right direction to take the character

"Its made for 8 years olds"
- Well, sorry to say but B:TAS is still watched by 8 year olds, even 3 year olds like my nephew, who calls two-face ... toothpaste

"Selfish..."

Wait what? You want a show that only applies to one generation, as opposed to everyone?




Come on! keep the arguments coming! I'm having a blast

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Guys honestly....stop with the selfish comments, "SELFISH" doesn't make sense..
definition of selfish
Self"ish\, a. 1. Caring supremely or unduly for one's self; regarding one's own comfort, advantage, etc., in disregard, or at the expense, of those of others.

Ive never used the selfish comment so I wont reply to this.

You guys don't care about the people who like the darker style t.v. show which would apply to EVERYONE. So honestly stop using that as an argument.

Who said I didnt care? I absolutely love TAS. However I dont want to see it copied or presented to us with nothing new to offer. And after 17 years, it wouldnt have anything new to offer if it was still running.I would love to see an animated show based directly on the art style of the 70's comics. Can you imagine an animated Marshall Rogers Batman? Awesome.

As for the broken record comment, to be honest reading through these posts, the people defending the show are the ones that are sounding more and more like a broken record..i'm pretty sure I've seen a counter argument to everyone of your guys arguments.

Really? All we've seen from you is TAS this and TAS that. There has been a counter to all your "darker" or "TAS" comments as well. Broken records all around then I guess.

"Thats how the show is supposed to be."
- That doesnt make the show a right direction to take the character

Neither does doing a show darker. And who to say this isnt a right direction? You? Thats personal preference.

"Its made for 8 years olds"
- Well, sorry to say but B:TAS is still watched by 8 year olds, even 3 year olds like my nephew, who calls two-face ... toothpaste

So? As stated before, this show was made to target one particular demographic. Kids watch Batman because its Batman. They just made this in the style that they think may be more appealing for them. You know, something new. Which is something you dont want, and have proved time and time again.

"Selfish..."

Wait what? You want a show that only applies to one generation, as opposed to everyone?

No one has said this is what we want. Youre twisitng everything around to continue your arguement about this not being TAS or a clone. We're saying this is the show that is being presented and why its being done so. And obviously, it is for more than one generation, as its taken directly from the silver age, which the creaters of this show grew up on. So those fans who di d grow up on the period, as well as new, younger fans, as well as people who like Batman in general, can enjoy it. And they are.

Come on! keep the arguments coming! I'm having a blast

Because now youre just becoming a troll. Which is something SHH doesnt really tolerate.

 

[Mister J]

Come on! keep the arguments coming! I'm having a blast

This points more toward transparency than anything else and it won't be tolerated. There are a few people whom have managed to voice their discontent of the show in a manner that isn't antagonistic or trollish. You don't appear to be one them.

 

[The Joker]

I love the tone of this show. I think the amount of camp that was used was just right.