The camp has been erased for a reason.

[Grommers]

If "The Batman" was so bad, why did it last for 5 seasons :S

 

[Evil Twin]

If "The Batman" was so bad, why did it last for 5 seasons :S

Plenty of terrible shows have been financial successes. Plenty of quality shows have been cancelled after 1 season or less. What's your point?

Heck, being based on Batman gives every show a leg up as far as the potential for success.

For those wanting a darker Batman cartoon, where's it going to air? Cartoon Network isn't interested in dark cartoons. HBO no longer shows cartoons. Saturday morning cartoons are rapidly disappearing. The only real niche is direct to DVD, which WB/DC is filling with stuff like Gotham Knight. Really, you have your dark movies, your dark cartoons, Gotham Knight, and your light cartoons. And the problem is?

 

[3dman27]

late night SCI FI?

 

[Grommers]

Plenty of terrible shows have been financial successes. Plenty of quality shows have been cancelled after 1 season or less. What's your point?

Heck, being based on Batman gives every show a leg up as far as the potential for success.

For those wanting a darker Batman cartoon, where's it going to air? Cartoon Network isn't interested in dark cartoons. HBO no longer shows cartoons. Saturday morning cartoons are rapidly disappearing. The only real niche is direct to DVD, which WB/DC is filling with stuff like Gotham Knight. Really, you have your dark movies, your dark cartoons, Gotham Knight, and your light cartoons. And the problem is?

I dunno, I personally liked "the batman". Not my favourite take, but definetly not my worse. But alas, I prefer numbers to do the talking, and numbers show that this was show that many liked for it to be a financial success. So, how was it a bad show? This show obviously had success, it got points across. Generally quality shows stay in air because more than one person think they are quality and if they are quality they usually get brought back if they get taken off accidently or before they get steam (I.e. batman tas, family guy etc.)

Like I said if B: B&B is a big success, then good for it. I was wrong, I have no problem admitting to it, but I could actually stand watching a "The Batman" episode, what I can't stand is watching B: B&B, but its not my opinion that matters by itself, its a community that does.

 

[Darkseid1]

Campiness DOES NOT WORK.

really? It seemed to work fine in the 60's show. Anyway, this show is not "campy". Again, another person who does not understand the meaning of the term. So, this comment means nothing.

The character has evolved. The audience has evolved. The medium to which Batman is delivered has evolved. The market has evolved.

The character has evolved, yes, and it will continue to do so. Whos to say this isnt the next stage? The medium has evelved? You mean animation? Yes, it has. Whats your point on this? This show has some pretty good animation. The market? You mean the market for children? This show is directed towards them. Please elaborate on this, whats it have to do with Brave and the Bold?

There is a reason why the all the Batman/Bruce Timm series including Justice League have been so critically acclaimed.

Is there also a reason Nickelodian cartoons are acclaimed and won awards too? Again, whats your point?

Simply put, Batman-The Camp does not work and Batman-The Dark Knight does.

When directed towrads what group? Children? No, it does not. TDK was not for young children. So, it did not work.

Case and point, how many people watched the movie Batman and Robin starring, Clooney and O'Donnell. Hardly anyone. That movie, with all it's special effects was meant to attract children. LOL...well, guess what folks. Children flocked to watch the Jurassic Park & Star Wars trilogy, but not Batman and Robin.

Really? Whats this based on? Half the posters here on SHH have admited to liking Batman and Robin when they were kids. They all say how they had the toys. This is just from the people on this board. So this comment, just like the previous ones, holds no water. Only your own opinion on something you dont like.

What needs to be done is a Batman cartoon series re-booted from the ground up that can attract kids from the 8th grade and beyond. A Dark Knight style that can tell the story of Batman from origin to the Robins to Oracle to The Birds of Prey to Justice League......a soap opera style show that can take years to complete rather then it's usual 3-5 year run.

Why? This cartoon is directed towards a younger audience. Younger than 8th grade. Do you know anything about why this show was made and the reasons?

Some, if not most of the arguments for Brave and the Bold, are outright terrible.

Yours isnt much better my friend. The pro arguments are far better and on the mark than the nays.

I remember growing up, little boys were into shows like GI Joe, Transformers, etc... Isn't it a no-wonder why kids of that same age group are so "into" the anime style cartoons of today?

Yeah. So was I. And I look at them now, and they were goofy. Im sure the older teens and young adults saw it that way too back then, just as you are seeing BATB. That makes them different how? I also hate to burst your bubble, not every kid is into anime.

Batman: Brave and the Bold is not going to attract more Batman fans. How can it, when today's cartoons are more hi-tech and imaginative then ever before. LOL...not unless you want Batman to attract the market of kids that need babysitters to watch over them.

That is exactly the target age they gunning for. Do your research before you post.

Bring back The Dark Knight style cartoons and not this "Smurf-like"/"Underdog" kind of show.

They are there. In DTV format.

 

[Darkseid1]

So you are saying that the strategy of "THE BATMAN" cartoon series didn't work?

If it didn't work for that show, despite a weird looking Joker, an over the top Penguin, and a comedic Robin and Batgirl........guess what? It's not going to work now.

5 seasons, a successful toy and merchandising line. Id say it worked.

 

[Grommers]

I went looking to find out if I can find a televisions show ratings, if you know of a site that has access to that please inform !

I ended up at tv.com

"The Batman" - http://www.tv.com/the-batman/show/22102/summary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;1 (ended up with an 8.2)

"Batman : TAS" - http://www.tv.com/batman-the-animat...mary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;6 (8.8)

"Batman beyond " - http://www.tv.com/batman-beyond/show/321/summary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;2 (9.0)

&

"Batman Brave & Bold" - http://www.tv.com/batman-the-brave-...mary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;9

An astonishing....5.2

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

I'd wait for Nielson ratings instead of going by a website.

 

[Darkseid1]

ah, yeah.

They are also comparing a brand new show with only 4 epsiodes under its belt to 3 other shows that ran for multiple seasons.

They also put Beyond ahead of BTAS. C'mon.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I went looking to find out if I can find a televisions show ratings, if you know of a site that has access to that please inform !

I ended up at tv.com

"The Batman" - http://www.tv.com/the-batman/show/22102/summary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;1 (ended up with an 8.2)

"Batman : TAS" - http://www.tv.com/batman-the-animat...mary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;6 (8.8)

"Batman beyond " - http://www.tv.com/batman-beyond/show/321/summary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;2 (9.0)

&

"Batman Brave & Bold" - http://www.tv.com/batman-the-brave-...mary.html?q=batman&tag=search_results;title;9

An astonishing....5.2

That rating was established BEFORE the show was on air. TV.com is hardly a reliable site.

 

[Evil Twin]

That rating was established BEFORE the show was on air. TV.com is hardly a reliable site.

I wonder how many of those voters screamed "Camp!" and gave it a 1 without even watching an episode. Probably the same juvenile fans who decided that they desperately needed TDK #1 on IMDB and started giving 1s to things like The Godfather.

 

[Grommers]

Just because you don't think its camp, doesn't make it not camp. And either way, i'm pretty sure majority rules if this show is successful or not, and clearly it isn't being looked at on a positive note on a grand scale. At the end of the day this is a marketting show, like everything else, and although it may be a show you like, or dislike, it's everyone collectively who decides if it stays, and as of right now the statistics we do have access too aren't looking good.

 

[Jack Ups]

Now i have and always will love the Dark Batman, thats who i like to read about and where my love the character comes from, but i also love this show, and i dont like the 60's Batman(though i still respect it) In this cartoon IS Batman, he knows what he is doing and even though he abit funnier many Bat books show him with sense of humour, i struggle to realise why peeps think this is so bad.

 

[Ion Kenshin]

Regardless of what people think I really enjoy this show. I completely intend on watching for however long it may last. It's fun and entertaining. So if it lasts one season great. More? Well so be it. Honestly if I based my tv watching off of what everyone thought is a crap tv show I'd probably never watch television. So hate it if you must. Beg for your dark gritty Batman if that is what you desire. I myself am open to different interpretations of things and while this may not be the perfect one I will continue to enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Darkseid1]

Just because you don't think its camp, doesn't make it not camp.

What? Its not "camp". This show is no way in the definition of "camp". "Camp" is intentinal humor being played straight. This show has obvious humor and is being presented as such. So, it is not "camp".

And either way, i'm pretty sure majority rules if this show is successful or not, and clearly it isn't being looked at on a positive note on a grand scale. At the end of the day this is a marketting show, like everything else, and although it may be a show you like, or dislike, it's everyone collectively who decides if it stays, and as of right now the statistics we do have access too aren't looking good.

This is based on what? One unreliable website that put up a rating before the show even was shown? Or on the few posters on this board that dont like it? It seems to me that the majority so far is liking this, and not only on this board, but also on others as well.

 

[Grommers]

Actually, that "1" unreliable source has yet to be proven its unreliable, its a matter of someones opinion if someone cheated on it or not, if you want to contact tv.com and find out from them the exact voting/times of votes etc, feel free too and provide it in your response, but as of now that is the only "factual" information we have until otherwise proven.

I've already expressed my disapproval of this show, and how I think it is a flop and the wrong direction to go in, but I also would never think to make Titanic, and nor did I like Titanic, but I can't help but agree it did spark much more interest in the boat, as well as was very successful and a well made movie. So, like I said if this show ends up being successful and lasts many seasons (i'd say 4+) then yeah, good for it, I was wrong, doesn't mean I'll like it, but I was still wrong and it would of been a good direction to take the Batman in for younger generations, but like I said the downwards trend this show has right now, its not looking good, and seems like a very poor choice of direction to take this character, but we won't know till a couple of seasons anyways.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

Just because you don't think its camp, doesn't make it not camp.

You thinking it's camp doesn't make it camp, either.

 

[Grommers]

You thinking it's camp doesn't make it camp, either.

I agree, and I'm open to the suggestion that it isn't camp, but it appears so far that majority is saying it is Camp.

 

[batpawn]

it's really funny. people on this thread complain about this facknuts who are whinning about "how they could possible make a childrens television show and not a dark an gritty one for us". still, the only guy who is whinning about this is grommers while everyone else is beating the living pulp out of him. i'm asking my self what people think what pathetic really is?

 

[Evil Twin]

I agree, and I'm open to the suggestion that it isn't camp, but it appears so far that majority is saying it is Camp.

You have a funny definition of "majority". The majority of this thread, people that have actually watched the show, disagrees with you. Nobody is suggesting it isn't "light", but that's not the same as "camp". You might as well suggest it's "slapstick" or "screwball" as you'd be just as accurate.

Pretty simple request, define "camp" and articulate how this show meets that definition by giving examples.

 

[The_Riddler?]

Hm. I see that someone has already defined "camp", but it seems that many are disregarding it. The term camp came into popularity with Batman because of the way the 60's series was presented. To deliberately act a certain way when it is obvious that the style of which it is being presented is already known. Meaning, in the instance of the 60's series, to play over the top comedy straight. That simply is not the case with this carton series. It is light hearted, yes, funny, at times, but it is not being presented as being serious in any way except when it is meant to be. The comedy or funny or humor is there, in your face, from the beginning, and it is not being avoided in any way. One thing that I am finding very amusing is that the ones who seemed to have this strong argument as to why this show should not be made or is "wrong", are very quick to disappear. My opinion as to why? They really do not have a solid basis for their argument. All they have is their own personal bias.

 

[Grommers]

Hm. I see that someone has already defined "camp", but it seems that many are disregarding it. The term camp came into popularity with Batman because of the way the 60's series was presented. To deliberately act a certain way when it is obvious that the style of which it is being presented is already known. Meaning, in the instance of the 60's series, to play over the top comedy straight. That simply is not the case with this carton series. It is light hearted, yes, funny, at times, but it is not being presented as being serious in any way except when it is meant to be. The comedy or funny or humor is there, in your face, from the beginning, and it is not being avoided in any way. One thing that I am finding very amusing is that the ones who seemed to have this strong argument as to why this show should not be made or is "wrong", are very quick to disappear. My opinion as to why? They really do not have a solid basis for their argument. All they have is their own personal bias.

Disappear is far from it, both sides have stopped because its futile to debate whether this was a good direction to take batman again or not, both sides have stated there arguments, what else is there to discuss?



e.g. the aquaman episode, where the dolphin comes and grabs his cape, batman is serious when he tells aquaman to let the dolphin let go over his cape, and even calls the dolphin annoying? (i think it was annoying), and he says that all dead serious...

would that not be camp by your definition? or is it the art that doesn't make it camp? because frankly if I think if the same scenario would happen to adam west...e.g. there is a shark attached to leg, and he tells robin to give the shark repellent to give him off, that would come across as camp.



as in response to "most people" to tv.com are saying its camp, according to one of the posters and probalby giving it a 1 before even watching it. well, wouldn't that be majority then?

 

[Darkseid1]

I think the fact that this is a cartoon directed towrads young children changes the whole aspect as to what is considered "camp". It is the intention to put Batman in these"sci fi" adventures and do it in a fun and kid friendly manner. 60's show was intended for both young and old alike and was therefore given the straight and comedic aspects to appeal to both. If you argue the point of Batman telling a dolphin that he finds annoying to let go of his cape, this type of situation could also be applied to instances in JL/JLU. Was that show meant to be "campy"?

As for TV.com, you can say the majority of THAT site say no, but for SHH, the majority say YES. Even on other sites such as LOG, it seems to be getting a warm response. So the majority there is YES. That seems to be 2 to 1. So whats the majority now.


I hope this all came out right. Ima little buzzed. happy new year.

 

[Evil Twin]

as in response to "most people" to tv.com are saying its camp, according to one of the posters and probalby giving it a 1 before even watching it. well, wouldn't that be majority then?

Sure, it would be an uninformed majority. Why should we give any credence to the opinions of someone who never watched the show?

There were people back in 1992 that were opposed to a Batman cartoon before they even saw an episode. Did that make them right?

 

[CConn]

Whoever doesn't like camp isn't a real Batman fan.