The Che Guevara Thread

[The Senator]

But they're not comparable at all. The person they overthrew is the monster and much closer to Pol Pot. How can you people ignore this???

The "civilians" that were executed under Castro were instrumental in Pol Po---err I mean Batista violent and tyrannical oppression. They were tried for war crimes and found guilty. It's like executing a Nazi sympathizer who helped keep the Nazis in power long enough for the final solution. Completely understandable for the time and place. If there were no executions the Cuban people were going to form mobs and exact revenge themselves. Batista had murdered 20,000 of their friends and family out greed.

Oh, I see. So killing civilians who were not formally tried (and yes, Che Guevara instructed his revolutionaries to kill civilians who were NOT tried ) is ay-okay, simply because they supported a brutal government?

Does that mean when Barack Obama is elected, he should go around executing every Republican who disagrees with him? Including civilian voters who are only affiliated with the party and have played no role in governmental corruption?

Wow, I mean, this is simply astonishing. You don't consider someone who killed innocent bystanders a monster, he's a hero solely because he overthrew an even worse regime. A-m-a-z-i-n-g.

 

[SuBe]

Oh, I see. So killing civilians who were not formally tried (and yes, Che Guevara instructed his revolutionaries to kill civilians who were NOT tried ) is ay-okay, simply because they supported a brutal government?

Does that mean when Barack Obama is elected, he should go around executing every Republican who disagrees with him? Including civilian voters who are only affiliated with the party and have played no role in governmental corruption?

Wow, I mean, this is simply astonishing. You don't consider someone who killed innocent bystanders a monster, he's a hero solely because he overthrew an even worse regime. A-m-a-z-i-n-g.

This guy probably thinks Hitler was a good guy too, considering Germany did come out of a Depression while Hitler was in power, so he's not "ALL BAD".

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But what you fail to realize Jman is that Che killed less people, so he's better than those other Tyrants.

If you fail to put things in context then bombing Hiroshima would be just as bad as what Pol Pot did.

The people who were killed under Che were tried and found guilty of war crimes. If they did not try and execute those instrumental to Batista's tyranny the people of Cuba would've done far worse with revenge mobs.

 

[CaptainClown]

Che is kinda like Luke Skywalker.

Imagine Luke Skywalker went a bit mad and killed some dissenters after the overthrow of the Empire.

He is Anakin Skywalker

 

[kainedamo]

But what you fail to realize Jman is that Che killed less people, so he's better than those other Tyrants.



I don't understand how anyone can Justify Evil, No Matter how cool he looks on a T-Shirt.

It's because evil is a matter of perspective. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

And Che represents a certain ideal. Very intelligent student who traveled South America and wrote some beautiful stuff, gave a passionate speech to the UN, overall he was a very influential figure of the 20th century.

I'd like to research him more because there is so much "he said, she said" in regards to his actions.

 

[CaptainClown]

It's because evil is a matter of perspective. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

And Che represents a certain ideal. Very intelligent student who traveled South America and wrote some beautiful stuff, gave a passionate speech to the UN, overall he was a very influential figure of the 20th century.

I'd like to research him more because there is so much "he said, she said" in regards to his actions.

His biography is pretty amazing, especially since he sacrificed so much. I have found though that people that know his history don't wear his shirts.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Oh, I see. So killing civilians who were not formally tried (and yes, Che Guevara instructed his revolutionaries to kill civilians who were NOT tried ) is ay-okay, simply because they supported a brutal government?

Civilians who were instrumental to that brutal government should've been tried. Most were. I have no idea how many civilians Che ordered dead without trail and frankly neither do you.

Does that mean when Barack Obama is elected, he should go around executing every Republican who disagrees with him? Including civilian voters who are only affiliated with the party and have played no role in governmental corruption?

If republicans killed 20,000 democrats then I would completely understand if hundreds were found guilty of war crimes during regime change.

Wow, I mean, this is simply astonishing. You don't consider someone who killed innocent bystanders a monster, he's a hero solely because he overthrew an even worse regime. A-m-a-z-i-n-g.

Innocent? A Nazi sympathizer who ratted on Jewish families, would you consider them innocent after the war?

 

[Handsome Rob]

Comparing Che to Hitler is idiotic.

Plenty on the right wing roll their eyes when Bush is compared to Hitler. Ridiculous comparisons are stupid.

What's stupid is whitewashing the actions of a butcher simply because you happen to agree with much of his ideology.

The ends justify the means, huh?

 

[Addendum]

But when laws change, you can't go around rounding up people for something that was legal that is now illegal.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Innocent? A Nazi sympathizer who ratted on Jewish families, would you consider them innocent after the war?

On an earlier post in this thread, you said:

"Che executed Batista sympathizers which was revenge for all the rebels Batista's dictatorship executed over years of tyranny. This is standard for any coup in 20th century Latin and South America."

Given that ratting on Jews in Nazi Germany was standard practice in Nazi Germany at the time, I guess you could consider their actions justified--you know, using your reasoning on Che's actions.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What's stupid is whitewashing the actions of a butcher simply because you happen to agree with much of his ideology.

The ends justify the means, huh?

Actually the opposite is just as unacceptable. Demonizing a revolutionary simply because you disagree with his ideology.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

On an earlier post in this thread, you said:

Given that ratting on Jews in Nazi Germany was standard practice in Nazi Germany at the time, I guess you could consider their actions justified--you know, using your reasoning on Che's actions.

Depends if they ratted out Jews for survival or for money/power.

 

[The Senator]

Civilians who were instrumental to that brutal government should've been tried. Most were. I have no idea how many civilians Che ordered dead without trail and frankly neither do you.

The fact that you used the word "most" in the above post shows that you are aware that Guevara has killed innocent civilians, and you simply do not care that he did. Congratulations, you have basically just said that it is ay-okay to idolize murderers

If republicans killed 20,000 democrats then I would completely understand if hundreds were found guilty of war crimes during regime change.

But Che Guevara killed innocent civilians whose only crime was supporting the opposing regime

Innocent? A Nazi sympathizer who ratted on Jewish families, would you consider them innocent after the war?

I would not consider their actions worthy of a bullet in the head, considering most Nazi sympathizers at the time were forced to support the Nazi regime or suffer the same fate as the Jews.

 

[The Senator]

Actually the opposite is just as unacceptable. Demonizing a revolutionary simply because you disagree with his ideology.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, the only thing you find unacceptable is that we disagree with idolizing a mass murderer whom you simply adore :heart:

It has NOTHING to do with his ideology. In fact, if he was a diplomatic force, I would see why Guevara was worthy of idolization. However, he was a blood-thirsty guerrilla who murdered INNOCENT people in the process.

How you can idolize such a monster is beyond me.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, the only thing you find unacceptable is that we disagree with idolizing a mass murderer whom you simply adore :heart:

It has NOTHING to do with his ideology. In fact, if he was a diplomatic force, I would see why Guevara was worthy of idolization. However, he was a blood-thirsty guerrilla who murdered INNOCENT people in the process.

How you can idolize such a monster is beyond me.

There you go again throwing around the word mass murderer. Che overthrew a real mass murderer, Batista. A fact those who want to vilify him choose to conveniently ignore.

Just as some innocent people are executed in our country due to an imperfect justice system I'm sure some innocent people got caught up in the war crime allegations since they were far-reaching but to say Che is a mass murderer is a gross exaggeration that is an effort to demonize him and anyone like him.

I acknowledge that there were very possibly some innocent people caught up in the mob mentality following the immediate overthrow of Batista because 93% of the public wanted blood. However you act as if Che personally killed hundreds of people who had nothing to do with Batista's death squads. The truth is you don't care because you've been conditioned to hate the man regardless of the unknowns such as how many purely innocent civilians he's responsible for killing.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But Che Guevara killed innocent civilians whose only crime was supporting the opposing regime

You have no idea the full extent of the "innocent's" involvement in Batista's death squads. You can't definitively say they were innocent because you simply don't know.

 

[Addendum]

Nor can we definitely say that they were guilty.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Batista may be a monster, but Che was just one of the monsters that overthrew him.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

and Che overthrew a dictator who killed 20,000 people in the name of imperialism. Che's actions backed his words whole hardily. He even went to the Congo to fight imperialism.

He went to the Congo, in his words, to start World War III.

 

[The Senator]

There you go again throwing around the word mass murderer. Che overthrew a real mass murderer, Batista. A fact those who want to vilify him choose to conveniently ignore.

Just as some innocent people are executed in our country due to an imperfect justice system I'm sure some innocent people got caught up in the war crime allegations since they were far-reaching but to say Che is a mass murderer is a gross exaggeration that is an effort to demonize him and anyone like him.

I acknowledge that there were very possibly some innocent people caught up in the mob mentality following the immediate overthrow of Batista because 93% of the public wanted blood. However you act as if Che personally killed hundreds of people who had nothing to do with Batista's death squads. The truth is you don't care because you've been conditioned to hate the man regardless of the unknowns such as how many purely innocent civilians he's responsible for killing.

So, basically, because Che Guevara overthrew a mass murderer, his crimes are totally acceptable and we should ignore all the innocent people his regime murdered.

I see.

 

[The Senator]

You have no idea the full extent of the "innocent's" involvement in Batista's death squads. You can't definitively say they were innocent because you simply don't know.

Yeah, I'm certain Che Guevara ONLY killed the bad guys.

He's just like the Punisher.

(speaking of which, has anyone noticed a resurgence of the "Punisher" skull t-shirts lately? I have seen a few in the past couple of weeks...)

 

[Gilpesh]

There you go again throwing around the word mass murderer.

Sarah Palin? Is that you?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

*winks*

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yeah, I'm certain Che Guevara ONLY killed the bad guys.

He's just like the Punisher.

(speaking of which, has anyone noticed a resurgence of the "Punisher" skull t-shirts lately? I have seen a few in the past couple of weeks...)

Punisher has a new movie coming out soon.

 

[The Senator]

Punisher has a new movie coming out soon.

I know, and it will probably be as horrendous as the last two. Sadly, I think that is one character which should remain in print and never be adapted to the big screen, because no one seems to be able to do it right.