The England Riots

[hopefuldreamer]

Don't know if anyone outside of England will have heard of this, but I was glued to the TV about this last night.

Basically from what i've gathered this morning, people were protesting about a fatal police shooting last night and it turned into this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14434766

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14434771

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14434616

So far i've heard 26 policeman where injured in the chaos.

 

[The Morningstar]

This is all because of some gangster wannabe drug dealer got shot by police. Tottenham is such a **** hole.

 

[chamber-music]

My Aunt and Uncle live down in Tottenham its nuts. My uncle was driving to work and saw people looting TVs from shops.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

Literally just down the road from me. Some of my friends got invites to a group titled "Riot for justice" or some crap like that.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

 

[Marvolo]

Another example of human stupidity. Screw using those batons. The cops should have shot the bastards.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Another example of human stupidity. Screw using those batons. The cops should have shot the bastards.

That's a little far...

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I think Mob Mentality is probably easy to take over, when the majority of the population are pretty pissed off at the establishment right now.

Not condoning it... but totally understand it. Sometimes I just wanna smash stuff up too!

 

[chamber-music]

Basically this is what I heard from my cousin that drug dealer guy got shot he was friends with one of the local gangs they contacted another gang and basically teamed up and went on a rampage. Then it got out on social media and people started turning just looking to smash stuff up and go at police.

So some of the people were not even from Tottenham.

Cross community you have a hatred or distrust of police in tottenham basically due to how they treat people in the area. Alot of people feel the police have been heavy handed and target too many innocent young people who get constantly stopped and searched.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Someone call Harry Brown.

 

[Marvolo]

That's a little far...

Destruction of property, looting, assaulting officer's, no, I think that is just about right. This mentality that people have that they can do whatever they want and only receive a slap on the wrist is the reason why this **** happens. Start surprising them and putting a bullet through their kneecap and they will think twice. I have absolutely zero tolerance for gangs and people who hurt cops. Rioting because some dumbass gang member got shot is ****ing ******ed. If they want to act like animals they should be treated like animals.

 

[chamber-music]

More like someone call Jack Carter

 

[chamber-music]

Destruction of property, looting, assaulting officer's, no, I think that is just about right. This mentality that people have that they can do whatever they want and only receive a slap on the wrist is the reason why this **** happens. Start surprising them and putting a bullet through their kneecap and they will think twice. I have absolutely zero tolerance for gangs and people who hurt cops. Rioting because some dumbass gang member got shot is ****ing ******ed. If they want to act like animals they should be treated like animals.

Well they wouldn't be able to just shoot people because a its illegal and anyway innocent people live above and around those shops plus some people were innocent and had just come out to see whats going on or protect their own property they would be hurt if a crossfire broke out.

When police do have groups they come across intent on violence and looting personally I have no problem with police shooting them with rubber bullets or grabbing them and beating the living daylights out of them with nightsticks.

 

[Victarion]

I blame the yuppies in their gated communties. We want your women and they want us!

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Destruction of property, looting, assaulting officer's, no, I think that is just about right. This mentality that people have that they can do whatever they want and only receive a slap on the wrist is the reason why this **** happens. Start surprising them and putting a bullet through their kneecap and they will think twice. I have absolutely zero tolerance for gangs and people who hurt cops. Rioting because some dumbass gang member got shot is ****ing ******ed. If they want to act like animals they should be treated like animals.

The reason why it's not okay to just start shooting people in the middle of a riot, is that every single person in that crowd is subjective and deserves to be judged for what it has been PROVEN they have done.

You don't just go into a situation like that going 'Oh well, all those people in the crowd must be responsible for the fires, the looting, the injuries to officers, so let's just mow em down.'

And personally, I don't think Criminal Damage, Looting or Assault are reasons to be shot. They are reasons to be arrested. I personally have a Criminal Damage charge on my record for writing a poem on a wall when I was 16... do you think I should have been shot for my destruction to property?

Look, I am just as frustrated as you when people don't pay properly for their crimes. Pedophiles, rapists, murders, who only get a couple of years and then are back on the streets repeating their crimes... that's disgusting.

But if you wanna live in the kind of country where they shoot you in the kneecap first and ask questions later, then I am very very happy you are not in charge.

 

[Marvolo]

Well they wouldn't be able to just shoot people because a its illegal and anyway innocent people live above and around those shops plus some people were innocent and had just come out to see whats going on or protect their own property they would be hurt if a crossfire broke out.

When police do have groups they come across intent on violence and looting personally I have no problem with police shooting them with rubber bullets or grabbing them and beating the living daylights out of them with nightsticks.

I don't know how things work in Britian, but I know if a riot of this scale happened in the States the FBI would be sent out and possibly National Guard. Once that happened the rioters would be neutralized by any means necessary. The area would be shut off, and it would be treated like hostile territory. I don't understand how it is illegal to shoot people causing this much destruction and mayhem. They are criminals enciting fear, violence, and destruction. That is a form of terrorism. If you run at a cop here with any weapon at all they will tazor you or shoot you. I feel we have become to lenient on criminals. If you want to deterr people from doing stuff like this show them no mercy, and make an example of a couple of them. As for the innocent people coming out to see what is happening, if they get shot or hurt its their own stupid fault. Who in their right mind would go near a window or go outside in a situation like this? They must have very much intelligence. They should stay in their houses or get the hell out of the area as quick as possible.

The reason why it's not okay to just start shooting people in the middle of a riot, is that every single person in that crowd is subjective and deserves to be judged for what it has been PROVEN they have done.

You don't just go into a situation like that going 'Oh well, all those people in the crowd must be responsible for the fires, the looting, the injuries to officers, so let's just mow em down.'

And personally, I don't think Criminal Damage, Looting or Assault are reasons to be shot. They are reasons to be arrested. I personally have a Criminal Damage charge on my record for writing a poem on a wall when I was 16... do you think I should have been shot for my destruction to property?

Look, I am just as frustrated as you when people don't pay properly for their crimes. Pedophiles, rapists, murders, who only get a couple of years and then are back on the streets repeating their crimes... that's disgusting.

But if you wanna live in the kind of country where they shoot you in the kneecap first and ask questions later, then I am very very happy you are not in charge.

These people burned down buildings, destroyed cars, assaulted police. As I said I have absolutely zero tolerance for gangs and people who hurt cops. The people in this mob joined it to create havoc. People were hurt and property was destroyed. There is no excusable or subjective reason to be involved in that mob. No reason at all. What are they doing it for their dying mother? Lol, they did it to break ****, and that is all. They are all criminals. What they created was a war zone, and in a war zone every militant can not be arrested and put on trial.

 

[Teelie]

You obviously do not understand mob mentality or the theory behind it. Shooting them is excessive. Tasering should be sufficient if it warrants it. No one should be shot unless they're an actual danger to someone.

The problem with these things is they happen and people literally are caught up in the moment. They lose inhibitions they normally would have. It's not a case of them just getting a chance to freely loot and riot although some no doubt take advantage of it. If put in a situation such as this, people will lose control of themselves to some extent which is why it's always best to avoid them when they happen.

Rioting is not a spectator sport. Even supposing you aren't involved, just being in the vicinity can get you into trouble. And what of those people who are genuinely caught up in a riot who had either no idea or no choice but to be there? Live on the block and a riot goes off, what do you do? Staying in doors is the safest bet but what if they start banging on your windows, trying to vandalize your yard or car?

Saying just shoot them all is a really simplistic solution and not worth the extra fatalities that will assuredly happen.

 

[Mandalore464]

If you want to deterr people from doing stuff like this show them no mercy, and make an example of a couple of them. As for the innocent people coming out to see what is happening, if they get shot or hurt its their own stupid fault. Who in their right mind would go near a window or go outside in a situation like this? They must have very much intelligence. They should stay in their houses or get the hell out of the area as quick as possible.

One of the scariest posts I've read on these boards. I'll just assume you are young and angry. Please don't tell me if you're not.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

while i don't think shots should have been fired, there certainly should have been some form of force used like tasers or tear gas.

 

[Marvolo]

You obviously do not understand mob mentality or the theory behind it. Shooting them is excessive. Tasering should be sufficient if it warrants it. No one should be shot unless they're an actual danger to someone.

The problem with these things is they happen and people literally are caught up in the moment. They lose inhibitions they normally would have. It's not a case of them just getting a chance to freely loot and riot although some no doubt take advantage of it. If put in a situation such as this, people will lose control of themselves to some extent which is why it's always best to avoid them when they happen.

Rioting is not a spectator sport. Even supposing you aren't involved, just being in the vicinity can get you into trouble. And what of those people who are genuinely caught up in a riot who had either no idea or no choice but to be there? Live on the block and a riot goes off, what do you do? Staying in doors is the safest bet but what if they start banging on your windows, trying to vandalize your yard or car?

Saying just shoot them all is a really simplistic solution and not worth the extra fatalities that will assuredly happen.

You say people lose their inhibitions in a riot. How do you solve this problem? You don't let riots happen. You make it so that the very idea of rioting scares the living **** out of anyone who would dare consider it. Losing one's inhibitions because your rioting is no excuse. The person should not have been doing it in the first place. Some here seem to think I am saying lay waste and murder everyone. To those, calm down and stop with the hyperbole. I am not advocating that or saying it is the only option. What I am saying is that this idea that you can fight an angry mob with only batons is stupid. Also, stop putting all crime in a bubble. I believe there are areas of grey. That being said, rioting is a powder keg waiting to go up. If not stopped as soon as possible it can lead to many deaths. In these situations I believe in doing what is necessary. Obviously, their tactics in this riot didn't work judging by the injuries and destruction. You can't dick around with these situations. You can't play nice and expect to stop it. If one rioter must die so that no innocents die it is the right decision. Its a sad outcome, but it is what it is. There are times when a person must be putdown or stopped. You can't stop and think about their motivation. You say they lose their inhibitions which mean they are less likely to be stopped by police calling for order and sirens and batons. The only way to call someone back from these frenzies is to shock them back into reality. In a situation like this the law must be willing to make hard decisions. If a rioter is running at the officer and he is holding a molotov cocktail with intent to do harm to the officer or an innocent person I see nothing wrong with immobilizing the rioter. If it means he has to shoot him that was the right thing to do.

 

[twylight]

You don't let riots happen. You make it so that the very idea of rioting scares the living **** out of anyone who would dare consider it.

Soviet Russia had it right!

 

[Teelie]

So shooting people is your solution? That's really gone over well in other countries that do that, right? That was your original premise. Aggressively and mercilessly suppress any kind of potential riot situation before it happens.

I also never said anything about letting them go unchecked or that there weren't ways to stop them or that no one involved should go unpunished but making broad, sweeping statements on how to oppress people who are rioting (or assembling in large numbers for any number of reasons which is the precursor to a riot) is no better.

 

[Marvolo]

Soviet Russia had it right!

I guess I need to clear this up to. Rioting against a corrupt dictatorship or communistic regime that has killed millions of people is excuseable. Hell, it would take a cold son of a ***** to say otherwise. But in a democratic country there is simply no reason to riot. That is why we have peaceable assembly. These people weren't rioting a corrupt regime or for the good of the innocent. They were rioting because some gang member got shot. Two different situations. These are those grey areas I mentioned.

 

[Mandalore464]

Nonsense.

It's both childish and simplistic to think that you can make people do things through fear. When people are scared, they don't lower their heads and walk in tidy rows. They revolt.

And shooting someone is a defensive action. Not a preventive one. Big difference. Fact is, policemen are trained to handle situations without resorting to the easy way (the gun). Proof is, even in such riots where you seem to say that masses of enraged people roam the streets with the intent to kill (or say, cause harm with potentially deadly weapons), there are no casualties to mourn. Life prevailed. Victory.

 

[Marvolo]

Nonsense.

It's both childish and simplistic to think that you can make people do things through fear. When people are scared, they don't lower their heads and walk in tidy rows. They revolt.

And shooting someone is a defensive action. Not a preventive one. Big difference. Fact is, policemen are trained to handle situations without resorting to the easy way (the gun). Proof is, even in such riots where you seem to say that masses of enraged people roam the streets with the intent to kill (or say, cause harm with potentially deadly weapons), there are no casualties to mourn. Life prevailed. Victory.

So your saying criminals should not fear the law? Explains a lot.Also, if you properly read my post you will understand that I spoke of using a gun in a defensive action. An officer shooting a rioter for running at him with a molotov cocktail is a defensive action. You say using a gun is the easy way out. There is nothing easy about having to shoot someone. The long term effects of shooting someone no matter how guilty they are remains in the shooter's mind. There is nothing easy about the psychological aftermath of shooting someone. You say this was a victory. Ok so I guess people being in the hospital and property being destroyed is a write off then. I wouldn't classify this as a victory. There may have been no lives lost this time, but what about the next time? The next time there very well could be. There shouldn't be a next time, but obviously there will be. There will be, because the consequences for these actions are laughable at best to the criminals.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

The way these "riots" are spreading is absolutely ridiculous. Somebody call Judge Dredd.