The "Hoodie" Incident: Controversial? Racist? - Part 4

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]461543[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]460607[/split]

 

[bullets]

If Trayvon Martin was a female we would see an entirely different set of opinions on this case.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If Trayvon Martin was a female we would see an entirely different set of opinions on this case.

Yeah, "Mr. Zimmerman are you saying a 17-year old girl overpowered you?"

 

[DareDemon]

If George was, we would too. That's because facts would be different. Not really an astounding observation.

 

[bullets]

If George was, we would too. That's because facts would be different. Not really an astounding observation.

No , but my point is the outcome of the case would of been different under the same laws.

 

[Thundercrack85]

But again, why do I have to wait for something to get physical before I act on something if I feel threatened. Just think, you're walking home, some dude is following you in his car and all of a sudden he walks up behind you probably saying something like "Hey, what are you doing?" At that point, are you not feeling threatened enough to take action? I mean, all this business about who touched who or who threw the first punch is irrelevant and no, it won't set a precedent. You can feel threatened by someone without having a punch thrown at you.

It doesn't work that way though. You can't just punch someone because they ask you a question. It has to be an actual verbal threat... and even then the law is murky.

 

[bullets]

"What are you doing" can sound threatening when being approached by a stranger in the middle of the night.

 

[Darthphere]

It doesn't work that way though. You can't just punch someone because they ask you a question. It has to be an actual verbal threat... and even then the law is murky.

Well thats the thing, what constitutes a threat? I have to wait until someone hits me with a surprise left before doing something? By then, it might be too late for me to do something.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well at least when Trayvon Martin punches someone, nobody dies.

Unfortunately I can't say the same for George Zimmerman pursuing black kids at 7pm.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Basically, yes.

It's stand your ground, not shoot / punch first.

I mean if we go with that, every nervous person is going to deck someone.

 

[Kelly]

I think one thing that should definitely come out of this....

If you are a member of a neighborhood watch team, you are not to carry a gun, but you can carry a taser.

 

[Schlosser85]

A taser can kill someone with a heart condition.

 

[DareDemon]

"What are you doing" can sound threatening when being approached by a stranger in the middle of the night.

It can, but not to a reasonable person.

Kelly- they are still ALLOWED to carry guns. It's just that tasters are suggested.

 

[Thundercrack85]

A taser can kill someone with a heart condition.

Still probably better than giving idiots guns.

 

[Kelly]

A taser can kill someone with a heart condition.

Sure...but if you are put in a situation where you have to protect yourself, simply because you are making rounds in your neighborhood, you need to be able to do that. I know that calling the police and staying out of it is what they are to do, but there may be an instance where they are caught off guard, and they need to be able to protect themselves.

It can, but not to a reasonable person.

Kelly- they are still ALLOWED to carry guns. It's just that tasters are suggested.

No, my point was, that should be a change...not that that is the policy at this moment. I don't think they should be allowed to carry guns. If they are on their own property, fine...but if they are out in their neighborhood as a neighborhood watch group member, IMO, the gun gives them more....how do I put this...."balls" to get themselves into a bad situation. Whereas, the taser may keep them out of these situations, but give them some protection if they are put into a situation that they did not expect.

 

[bullets]

It can, but not to a reasonable person.

I'm surprised anyone would find that type of behavior normal. I might say "hi" to someone passing by , but I'm not going to interrogate them. At least not without identifying my motivations.

 

[Kelly]

The neighborhood watch in my area have marked cars as well as t-shirts in the summer, and jackets in the winter. They don't have them on all the time, but those that are on call drive one of the 2 cars that they have and make sure that they are wearing something that says who they are.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Basically, yes.

It's stand your ground, not shoot / punch first.

I mean if we go with that, every nervous person is going to deck someone.

But that's the problem with this case.

It was okay for Zimmerman to feel threatened and unreasonably escalate the situation to deadly force under reason of "fear" because he got punched, but it wasn't okay for Trayvon Martin to escalate the situation to a fight under reason of "fear" when a man was following him, proving to be a menace, and likely even initiated a physical confrontation.

The whole thing is basically saying it was okay for the man with a gun to over react, but it wasn't okay for the kid without a gun to over react.

And given the likely possibility that Zimmerman grabbed Martin first, I'm not convinced that Martin punching Zimmerman was over reacting.

 

[bullets]

The neighborhood watch in my area have marked cars as well as t-shirts in the summer, and jackets in the winter. They don't have them on all the time, but those that are on call drive one of the 2 cars that they have and make sure that they are wearing something that says who they are.

That sounds reasonable. We don't even have an active neighborhood watch in my area , but I suspect most people here would report suspicious activity.

 

[DareDemon]

The neighborhood watch in my area have marked cars as well as t-shirts in the summer, and jackets in the winter. They don't have them on all the time, but those that are on call drive one of the 2 cars that they have and make sure that they are wearing something that says who they are.

I like this idea better, because I don't see why an everyday citizen can carry a concealed weapon but neighborhood watch can't (when they'd be more likely to come across trouble, especially).

 

[Kelly]

I have no clue if any of ours have an CHL or not....but I can probably be correct in saying that most of the houses in my area contain a gun. : )

 

[bullets]

I know places hire security to walk around certain areas like apartment complex's and small neighborhoods. With those jobs you can wear civilian clothing , but your required to carry a weapon permit , gun , and some type of badge.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I am an adamant supporter of people's gun rights, I firmly believe in the 2nd amendment, and I don't necessarily want to see guns taken out of people's hands. I just want to see people held accountable when they use those weapons irresponsibly.

To me, the problem isn't that Zimmerman had a gun instead of a taser. The problem is that he was completely wreckless and irresponsible with that gun. I agree with what someone said, I don't think it makes sense to take a gun out of a neighborhood watch captain's hands, when an ordinary everyday citizen can have one.

What I don't get is this whole neighborhood watch thing. When I was growing up, the neighborhood watch was essentially "the neighbors will call the cops if you break into my house". We didn't have members of the neighborhood patrolling the streets.

 

[DareDemon]

I am an adamant supporter of people's gun rights, I firmly believe in the 2nd amendment, and I don't necessarily want to see guns taken out of people's hands. I just want to see people held accountable when they use those weapons irresponsibly.

To me, the problem isn't that Zimmerman had a gun instead of a taser. The problem is that he was completely wreckless and irresponsible with that gun. I agree with what someone said, I don't think it makes sense to take a gun out of a neighborhood watch captain's hands, when an ordinary everyday citizen can have one.

What I don't get is this whole neighborhood watch thing. When I was growing up, the neighborhood watch was essentially "the neighbors will call the cops if you break into my house". We didn't have members of the neighborhood patrolling the streets.

Haha! You agreed with me again!

Also, I think neighborhood watches form when crime in an area gets bad enough, or when it's temporarily bad enough. Sometimes people inside houses don't notice (criminals, the not completely stupid ones at least, try not to be so brazen).