The "Hoodie" Incident: Controversial? Racist?

[roach]

2nd degree murder is going to be hard to prove.

it won't be hard to prove but if Zimmerman's lawyer can prove he was fighting for his life he is gonna walk

 

[Paradoxium]

Guess Corey changed her mind. 2nd is going to be much harder to prove than manslaughter. I heard Zimmerman did not take the advice of his own lawyers and contacted Corey + spoke with media. If this is true, he deserves to lose for being so stupid. Maybe she is going to try to pull a Nifong and become some crusader, and that didn't work out too well for Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse case.

Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[dnno1]

2nd degree murder is going to be hard to prove.

It's easier than 1st degree murder. You don't have to prove it was premeditated.

 

[roach]

who know whats truth about this case but I am glad this is going to court so the actual facts will come out

 

[roach]

It's easier than 1st degree murder. You don't have to prove it was premeditated.

if he can prove he was defending himself he will walk

 

[Paradoxium]

Murder 2 will increase the odds of an acquittal under a jury. Manslaughter increases the odds of a convictions. It's a cost/risk/reward type of situation.

She must have something we don't know and/or has some serious brass balls. This could make or break her career.

 

[Kurosawa]

It's easier than 1st degree murder. You don't have to prove it was premeditated.

2nd degree murder seems to be the correct charge in this case from the way Florida defines the law. It's not a "crime of passion" case, it's more of a "wrong place, wrong time" kind of incident.

Guy killed a kid and ruined his own life over fear. The cops tell you to back off, you back off.

 

[roach]

2nd degree murder seems to be the correct charge in this case from the way Florida defines the law. It's not a "crime of passion" case, it's more of a "wrong place, wrong time" kind of incident.

Guy killed a kid and ruined his own life over fear. The cops tell you to back off, you back off.

while it does the wildcard in this case is gonna be the Stand your ground law

 

[SentinelMind]

I'm not a lawyer...but some combination of aggravated assault and voluntary manslaughter seems to be the best strategy if you want the guy punished/convicted of something. I understand the technical, legal definition and all...but high profile cases like this tend to be lost because of politics.

I suppose Zimmerman could hand prosecution the case. I doubt he has the money for a high profile lawyer. I suppose a media ****e lawyer may choose to defend the case. You need a masterful tactician, not just an internet legal fund.

Corey stated she didn't speak to Zimmerman directly but that his lawyers did. Corey says she made the decision last week and were working out details.

 

[DV8]

I doubt that Zimmerman intended to kill this kid, but I DO think it was racially motivated . . . a white kid walking around in a hoodie would probably have drawn no suspicion from Zimmerman; I think 2nd degree murder is probably fair based on what we know

that being said, this ENTIRE situation has been blown way out of proportion on BOTH sides; I'm personally tired of hearing about it. I'm glad it will finally start to dwindle down until Zimmerman is tried and sentenced then HOPEFULLY he will not walk free, because all of this bubbling underlying racial tension will boil over into chaos . . .

this whole situation has really made me disappointed in our society

 

[roach]

um...i don't think this is gonna dwindle...i think this is gonna blow up....too bad no one was white or Nancy Grace would be all over it

 

[roach]

Fun Fact: Stand your ground was invoked 130 times....19 convictions

 

[Paradoxium]

killing of another human being during the commission of a felony that is imminently dangerous to human life

Angela Corey must now prove Zimmerman committed a felony that contributed BUT WAS NOT the actual cause of the death. Second degree typically used for robberies in Florida.

She is risking a lot on the charge when the penalty (due to 10/20/Life Law) will net Zimmerman 25 years at minimum (no parole) + 10 years for the manslaughter. Whereas murder 2 gets him 25 years at minimum (no parole) + 20 years for murder 2. That's a difference of 10 years over a very long period of time. With a very high risk of acquittal.

edit: I misread murder 2

 

[roach]

Unless she is holding on to some evidence we don't know about I feel he is gonna walk. Zimmerman did shoot and kill Martin...no doubt. He didn't try to run. He cooperated with the police. The police report has documented his injuries. If they can convince the jury it was self defense he's gonna walk,

 

[Paradoxium]

You risk the odds of letting him walk for 45 years or increase the odds of a conviction for 35 years. Regardless he won't survive prison in 25. He is good as dead if he is convicted of whatever.

 

[dnno1]

2nd degree murder seems to be the correct charge in this case from the way Florida defines the law. It's not a "crime of passion" case, it's more of a "wrong place, wrong time" kind of incident.

Guy killed a kid and ruined his own life over fear. The cops tell you to back off, you back off.

I'm pretty sure that the didn't charge him with that because it would have been hard to prove it was premeditated. The 2nd degree charge also means that he won't get life imprisonment if he gets convicted. What surprises me is that they didn't charge him with anything else. We will see if things change after his arraignment.

 

[Paradoxium]

If they go by unpremeditated there will be one/two serious issues

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

She has to prove Zimmerman had a depraved mind and it was not a clear and intentional target.

If you look at manslaughter the conditions are way easier to prove or work around.

The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

She added two very difficult conditions to up charges, on the mathematical difference of 35 to 45 years, when this guy probably won't even survive prison with the 25 minimum. At the risk of increasing the odds of acquittal.

 

[roach]

If they go by unpremeditated there will be one/two serious issues

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.htmlShe has to prove Zimmerman had a depraved mind and it was not a clear and intentional target.

If you look at manslaughter the conditions are way easier to prove or work around.

She added two very difficult conditions to up charges, on the mathematical difference of 35 to 45 years, when this guy probably won't even survive prison with the 25 minimum. At the risk of increasing the odds of acquittal.

they say she is an aggressive prosecutor and she usually goes after the highest punishment possible.

Proving a depraved mind of a guy who has cooperated with the police and turned himself in is gonna be hard

 

[dnno1]

if he can prove he was defending himself he will walk

Self defense would be his best defense in this case, but one could argue because he went into pursuit that he did have a duty to retreat. There was a supreme court case (see Rowe v. United States) where a man was in a hotel lobby and was called a demeaning name who was behind him in line. The man walked over to the person who insulted him and kicked him in the shin, and returned to the hotel counter. The person who was kicked then pulled a knife and approached the man at the counter and slashed his face twice. In self defense, the man at the counter pulled out a gun and killed the assailant. The gunman was convicted of murder, but had his case appealed up to the Supreme Court. The court ruled in favor of the criminal stating that because the man withdrew from the encounter after kicking the victim he revived his right to self defense. In addition, it was established that he had no duty to retreat because he was in a place where he had a right to be (at the hotel counter presumably to do business with the hotel).

I think it will all depend on how the judge instructs the jury and if he chooses to instruct them on the stand your ground law and what is meant by the duty to retreat. If they indicate that a person must be in a place where he has a right to be before he can claim self defense, it may make the difference between a justifiable homicide and a murder. As it stands now to prove second degree murder in Florida the State must prove in its case that 1) the victim is dead (which won't be a problem), 2) the death was caused by a criminal act (which will be a little harder), and 3) there was an unlawful killing of of the victim by an act that was imminently dangerous and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life (which might be kind of hard as well). That's why I think this will be eventually trumped down to a lesser charge, like culpable negligence, third degree murder, or something like that.

 

[roach]

Listening to CNN Zimmerman was on the phone with police when he was following them. According to the report when he was told not to follow he turned around and went back the truck and thats when Martin attacked.

If this is the true account his turning back to his truck no longer makes him the aggressor.

 

[Paradoxium]

I don't see how this can even get trumped down at all. Corey is going all in with murder 2. The story between murder 2 and manslaughter would be radically different given the conditions. The depravity condition alone will be a incredible hurdle.

She should have just stuck with her original decision of manslaughter. That was a much much easier conviction.

 

[roach]

I don't see how this can even get trumped down at all. Corey is going all in with murder 2. The story between murder 2 and manslaughter would be radically different given the conditions. The depravity condition alone will be a incredible hurdle.

She should have just stuck with her original decision of manslaughter. That was a much much easier conviction.

I believe the jury could trump it down...i think I heard that today

 

[Paradoxium]

Listening to CNN Zimmerman was on the phone with police when he was following them. According to the report when he was told not to follow he turned around and went back the truck and thats when Martin attacked.

If this is the true account his turning back to his truck no longer makes him the aggressor.

Not necessarily, it goes that he chased after that. The problem was, the media purposely mixing the first follow through.

It went something like this:

- Trayvon knocked on his truck and asked him "why are you following me", timing from his girl friend DeeDee
- Phone call made as documented, he goes out of truck and heads east
- Loses him turns back west to his truck ends phone call
- Altercation occurs south west

Details of the altercations is what gets muddied here.

 

[Paradoxium]

I believe the jury could trump it down...i think I heard that today

The judge will require the jury to find Zimmerman depraved during the act which will be difficult. I don't even understand why Corey would put herself through this test and risk it all. She must have some really revelatory evidence in video form or something.

 

[roach]

The judge will require the jury to find Zimmerman depraved during the act which will be difficult. I don't even understand why Corey would put herself through this test and risk it all. She must have some really revelatory evidence in video form or something.

from what I heard today the jury could come back with a lesser charge.