He had help from directors like Shawn Levy (Night at the Museum) and Chris Long (Gilmore Girls), and writers like Paul Levitz , Joe Staton, Bob Layton (for source material), Latea Kalogidis (Bionic Woman), David Herchel Goodman (Buffy),and Mellisa Rosenberg (The O. C. and Dexter).
Since Levitz, Staton and Layton were who they relied on for source material no wonder they went with Helena Wayne's influence on Huntress. I wonder if the tv show people even knew Bertinelli existed.
That said it’s great those incredibly talented writers and artists were able to have an effect on the show.
How much influence did they have exactly?
Most of those studio people had little experience in sci-fi.
Goodman was a rookie sci-fi writer when he came to BOP. He only wrote 2 episodes of Angel and one of Jack of all Trades before coming aboard the show.
Latea began as a screenwriter on BOP.
Rosenberg had some prior experience with sci-fi but it's hard to tell how many episodes he wrote on Dark Skies.
She wrote two episodes of Hercules. Hardly the best sci-fi for dark sci-fi then one episode of The Outer Limits.
Most of her writing is pop culture drama work, not sci-fi.
Long has more experience in sci-fi tv shows though his biggest sci-fi series was Lois and Clark.
These people are good at what they do but they are not who you’d hire to make the best sci-fi tv show on tv. They don't come close.
The same way they always do: Market Research.
They more than likely had an audience pre screen some clips or the pilot episode and got their opinion on it.
What in their market research did they use to determine Bertinelli was impossible to use?
I know about this because I participated in several when I was a lot younger.
Okay.
They also consulted with both DC and WB Films.
How heavily were they consulted with? How much influence did they have on the show?
Keep in mind that Bertinelli is not the only version of the character.
I’d consider Helena Kyle, Helena Wayne and Helena Bertinelli three different characters.
Each have potential with different strengths and weaknesses.
All of them have potential as franchises in other mediums beyond comics IMO. They just need to be executed correctly.
Silver Age Huntress
The Silver Age Huntress character was the daughter of Batman and Catwoman from Earth-Two so the Idea of going with a character that was a Batman/Catwoman offspring was consistent with the source material and proof that they did their homework. Of course if you really read the history of the character, you would have known that.
I know who she is.
Like I said before, they had good competition (The Bachelor and The West Wing). It wasn't fumbling.
It couldn't survive one season. It fumbled.
See my previous reply. You are mistaken by saying this character never existed before.
Never said she never existed before.
In fact, she was more in line with the original Silver Age version of the character.
I know.
The only difference was that she had super-powers in the show.
Wrong.
Helena Wayne looks like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Helena_wayne.JPG
Not this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/95/Bop-promo.jpg
Helena Wayne was raised by Batman and Catwoman, wore a mask, trained her personally, lived a privileged life, has long hair, became a lawyer after graduating school, had a happy personality, had a super-hero costume and used a crossbow to fight crime with.
Helena Kyle was a meta-human raised though not trained by Catwoman, she had short hair, didn’t wear a mask, had a different surname, never knew who her father was, didn't have a privileged life, was not a lawyer, didn't wear a super-hero costume, fought unarmed and had an emo personality.
It is uncertain if the Bertinelli version would have done any better.
Why?
She’s gotten more relevant as a character in the Bat franchise through the years IMO.
She was a former psychiatrist. Harley dressed up like an actual harley quinn to violently confront her foes and is very comedic.
Actually the did better than that. They made her an arch-villian instead of a slap stick gun-moll.
True.
That was a plot device. If you saw the episode they needed Lady Shiva to be a masked villian or else her successor (her younger sister and good friend of Helena) would have her cover blown. Batgirl/Oracle would have known right away since she had fought Lady Siva in the past.
Which they could have done by making a new villain or searching the DCU for a more fitting villain.
He was in prison. They wrote that episode similar to Silencing of the Lambs where Huntress had to question Clayface in order to find a criminal that was using powers similar to his to commit murderous crimes. The criminal turned out to be his son.
They should have used Scarecrow instead. He makes more sense as a Hannibal Lector analog.
How does the Bat embargo work, exactly? They managed to get quite a few Bat characters in the show with it.
This is hindsight. Both "The Bachelor" and BoP were in their first seasons at the time and I don't think anybody knew that the show would be as successful as it was.
They should have moved it once it started being a hit.
And these are the same issues a solo (Bertinelli) Huntress would face.
I know.
Which is why Huntress or any DC tv show should get the best support from WB from writers, planning and the network. BOP should have gotten it, too.
Batman and Superman are proven francises in mediums other than the comics. That is why they are more willing to spend the money on them.
That will never change unless WB actually does something about it. Which means actually supporting new franchises well in every capacity.
They can’t expect good results by doing the least amount of work possible. How many non-Bat and Super franchises do they need to kill before they understand that?
No I said they altered the character in order to attract and or retain the audience that would be seeing it.
They didn't just alter Huntress they made her unrecognizable from either comic incarnation then did the same to almost everyone else on the show.
They should have just called it something else since they weren't adapting Birds of Prey very well.
The show followed up Dawson's Creek so they were trying to retain that audience for better ratings.
Dawson's Creek may have been a popular show but it doesn't make sense their audience would watch Birds of Prey. Which it didn’t.
The lowest common denominator would have been to go with the show "out-of-the-box" (i.e. straight from the comics), which more than likely would have tanked even harder, if it even would have made it past the first pilot.
I'm not saying they have to adapt every panel but they should have done a better job emulating the comics since they are meant to be adapting them.
Not shamelessly copying X-men, Smallville and Dark Angel. If they had to do it at least don't make it so obvious or badly. They should have just got the rights to make a new Dark Angel tv show instead.
If they really didn’t believe the comics were worth adapting they shouldn’t be making a tv show based on comic books.
The lowest common denominator would be doing things such as making simple stories, using snappy catch phrases, hot women in sexy clothes and random violence. It’s the path of least resistance to getting people to watch. They relied on this way to much instead of making a good BOP tv show. The comics did this to an extent but they didn't totally rely on it to survive since they actually made great stories which had depth.
I am getting the impression that you really didn't watch the series when it was out. The show wasn't that bad. Here are a few clips:
Decent, but nothing special.
The acting was good. Meyer did the best with what she had. The script was far to close to being corny for my tastes.
The cheesiness is off the scale in the Shiva scenes. The fighting and Dinah Meyer are decent at best, Helena comes off lame with her insults to Shiva, Shiva is not convincing at all from the actress to the writing to her dorky costume.
Mia Sara fails to sell her hits on Helena during the interrogation, the small talk lines between the cast are very forced, the guy who is looking over the fight in the Clock tower is not funny and diffuses the seriousness of the fights below, the leaping scenes are awkward, Harley’s banter is not funny or intimidating, Mia is totally unbelievable as the person fighting Helena and Barbara, the script holds back the actors who do their best with what they have.
It’s all mediocre work. It’s a miracle Scott and Meyer were able to do well in any scenes, which is the exception, at all.
Maybe this is more what you expected to see:
Batman: TAS and JLU did a much better job with those characters then BOP and they didn’t need to warp the mythos completely to do it.
The voice-over completely destroys what made those versions great.
Once again, this is all hindsight. I don't even think you would have known tha The Bachelor was going to be a hit
True.
and it is certainly easy and trival to say that now.
It’s one of the biggest reasons it failed. To ignore its affect on BOP would be a mistake.
I don't know how you call relying on the comics being inventive.
That is copying.
It’s called adapting.
Copying would be from any other franchise not related to BOP. Which is what they did.
Anyway Remember they altered the Superman charcter and storyline in Smallville and it had been working for seven going on eight seasons now.
Only they not only didn't have the budget to execute similar ideas they were not in the same position as Smallville since their analog was on the show for about five minutes then never seen again.
Now that is an example of how innovation works.
Smallville is one of the worse shows for innovation.
I am sure they couldn't use the Superman villians since they were tied up with Smallville and Superman Returns.
I didn’t say they had to have Superman villains on it. Its not the only franchise with good villains they could chose from.
Exactly how could they be tied up with Smallville? Did they have a Super embargo, too?
BOP wouldn’t have needed to use the same versions unless they were in the same universe. They could use their own versions.
Any other villian would have been some what out of context and not keeping with the source material.
What villains would have been out of context?
Considering how much they altered with the source material I doubt it would have matter any way.
I think your argument is that they should have gone with the Bertinelli version of the character in a solo. I don't think that would fit well pairing her up with Darkseid, or Weather Wizzard.
When I said adapt other villains of the DCU I mean ones who actually do fit the tone of the franchise and which they know they can be done well.
For the Huntress tv show all of the characters from the DCU would be street levelers who had some hard edge and any with powers would be stripped of them or at a much lower level to be more realistic. No cosmic or magic characters would appear in it.
Considering how cheesy BOP was Weather Wizard would fit right in with their show.
The truth is that they aren't and their comic book sales are a testament of that.
Comic sales don't mean anything. What doesn’t work there doesn't mean it can't be a hit in other mediums if the concept has potential and the people adapting it have a good version the public can like. It’s all in the execution.
I doesn't hurt to get some support from your popular brother heroes (especially when they are in the same universe).
Of course, the BOP tv show was reliant on two of the highest profile characters they couldn’t use as a concept.
That is an advantage Huntress' tv show would have over it. It would have other heroes guest-star in the series, as well. Only it would be more expansive and extent to villains, too.
I will agree with you on the blame thing, but I can't on the Murphy's law.
Why not?
The producer didn't even know who Catwoman was before he was on the show, he couldn't get the proper qualified writers to execute it, they were rushed, under-funded and their main competition was a reality tv juggernaut.
The show did have a following that still exists today.
Which is minute compared to successful sci-fi tv shows like Buffy.
You never know. It might come back someday.
Hopefully next time they won’t repeat the same mistakes.
Let's suffice it to say that it was crippling.
They made the concept totally dependent on Batman and Catwoman, the two characters they couldn't have on the show.
Bertinelli can survive with or without either characters direct connection. Though Batman should have some presence at some capacity.
Wonder Woman went 3 seasons (only after it was picked up by CBS after one season on ABC) and a number of people look at that series as a classic (now on DVD).
Birds of Prey isn't that show's equal.
Times were simpler then. They could get away with very low budgets, acting wasn’t up to that high a standard compared to this era with super-hero shows and camp was in.
Not now, though.
Dark Angel was canceled for similar reason as BoP (cost and ratings)
Then why did they copy it? DA didn't survive very long and was already obsolete with Buffy on tv.
although it had an avid fan base that still exists today.
A fan base which couldn't support it for one season.
Successful sci-fi shows like Buffy are marketing juggernauts. DVD’s, CD’s, comics, novels. They were able to do by providing product which was not only fun to watch, it was top quality and wasn’t afraid to be a pioneer in their field. They embraced their roots, not been ashamed of them.
No concrete tie back to the Batman franchise.
She has some ties to Batman she just isn’t reliant on them like Wayne is. Which, as you can see from how BOP did, can backfire badly when they can't use Batman or Catwoman on a tv show.
This is a huge advantage Bertinelli has over Wayne.
A Huntress who is an offspring of Batman and Catwoman is still superior since it is consistent with the original source material (from the silver age) and it establishes a link and continuity to both the Batman and Catwoman franchises, which are more popular.
What I've been using has been the source material of Bertinelli.
Bertinelli has a direct link to Batman since they do work together in the comics. Catwoman doesn't need to be her mother to appear on the tv show.
She could work without his direct connection, as well.
Batman: The Brave and the Bold
(l-r: Green Arrow, Batman, Blue Beetle)
As a consolation, Huntress will be featured in the upcoming animated series Batman: The Brave and the Bold.
So what? Most heroes and villains in the DCU will probably show up there. Bertinelli isn't going to be the star of it.
Unless you have something quantifiable to prove otherwise I don't think you are in a postion to say that.That's why I don't believe it.
Okay.
Who is Levin anyway? An associate or something. He wasn't in on the production.
He was WB's entertainment president at the time.
Just reread the article. He thought BOP was to dark. I disagree with him. It wasn't dark enough.
BOP would look like the Brady Bunch to Huntress.
Darkness, realism and grittiness are in on tv and the movies now. This show would appeal to that demographic.
Battlestar Galactica, 24, The Dark Knight, The Shield audiences are who the Huntress would appeal to.
Have you watched any of these? They’re absolutely nothing like the BOP tv show.
Once again it wasn't necessarily the show it self but other factors -- cost and copetition being the main culprits.
If the writers and producers were so worried that they wouldn't have the right amount of money to execute their ideas why did they go ahead with the show?
I was in a Wednesday time slot meaning that it had to compete with The Bachelor, which turned out to be a hit, and The West Wing, an already established show. Friday and Saturday nights are pretty much the kiss of death (that's partly what killed Dark Angel), and you had other shows like Law and Order: Criminal Intent (Sundays), Monday Night Football, CSI (Thursdays) to deal with on the other nights (which were proven an very popular sows). I didn't mention Tuesday nights, because Smallville aired in that timeslot back then. Wednesday was the best time for the show although it was just unfortunate that it was up against The Bachelor, which turned out to be the hit.
Why didn’t they put the show after Smallville? Their audience was the same. It makes more sense to do that then Dawson's Creek.
Why? Because you just clarified that you were refering to Huntress in "Birds of Prey" (the comic book) and not "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".
Not just Birds of Prey, but Cry For Blood and Year One.
Have you read the Birds of Prey series?
I though you were implying that Buffy was derived from a comic. I am not claiming anything. I just said forget it.
Yet you don't seem to be that interested in reading the two Huntress mini-series I recommended I'd be basing this show on.
You don't need to buy the comics, either. I can give you some links to the series online to give you examples of them.
