The Michael Keaton Effect: Still Possible Today?

[Binker]

In 1978, Superman: The Movie was released, and its star was an unknown actor named Christopher Reeve. What has made this guy so popular and well-known today (well one out of many of them) is that he LOOKED the part. Some have said that if you want to know what Reeve looked like, then to look at the Curt Swan Superman. This became, although this was the only franchise for the longest time in the '80s, a stable and thing to do: find an actor who acted the part (two roles in one) but above all looked the part. And that was the plan for even the other film that was in development hell: Batman. You would think that would stay, but it was changed however in 1989 when Michael Keaton was cast. Keaton didn't look the part, he was his own Bruce Wayne and mostly silent as Batman; but the guy still was Batman to a "t". If looking the part is the "Reeve effect," what Keaton was would be "the Keaton effect."

This has been something on my mind for a while, but I guess the question is: could the "Keaton effect" still work today for certain characters? I know its been tried (Nic Cage on Superman, even Michael Biehn was considered for Spider-Man), but regardless of the choices, would it still work and would we still have gotten a different take on the character, but still be given the same character?

P.S. one thing that pops in my mind would be what-if someone had taken the character idea of Clark from the "It's Superman!" novel and we would've had a Superman who was an average guy (let's say like Jerry Siegel, his creator, kinda like his appearence in "Boys of Steel"). But, not would that work, but would that be allowed today?

 

[El Payaso]

Keaton was an exception, I believe. Still, the best exception ever.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Bruce Wayne of the comics looks like Clark Kent of the comics, minus the glasses. Tall, dark haired, handsome, well built.

Burton was trying to get away from this idea completely. Burton's whole vision of Batman is that he is not Superman, that he is someone who needs to put on a batsuit to scare people.

I think Burton improved the Batman character this way. It is traditional for heroes to be perfect physical specimens. But it makes more sense the Tim Burton way.

 

[comicfan4Life]

I feel it's a catch twenty-two because sometimes it's a gamble that pays off (unknown actor vs. well known actor), or it's this is the guy (RDJ as Iron Man, Reeves as Superman, etc.), but mostly I think it's the best they can do. One of the main reasons I think most DC heroes don't get movies is because of that. Does anyone know a person that can play aquaman? Not just play aquaman, but look, sound, and actually be aquaman? How about Wonder Woman? Look at how many suggestions that are available in the WW thread on the DC board. Then Captain America/Thor.

It's mostly the best they can do, but sometimes you get characters that have to have actors fit a certain look. Case in point, you can't have someone like Jensen Ackles play Punisher. Alot of the casting though is somewhat skewed too. Such as, "well this famous person is a fan that likes this character so let's let him play it" (Affleck as Murdock, Cage as Blaze). Mostly it's who is very popular at the moment (Ryan Reynolds, etc.) so as much as it may seem like a long shot I wouldn't be too surprised to see Kristen Stewart as WW, Rob Pattison as Superman, or Justin Bieber as Robin. There are many factors that go into casting, but they're not factors really, just styles.

Some characters can get away with certain actors playing them, others can't. Superman is one of those characters that must be played by someone who looks like superman, batman isn't. I can't honestly think of an actor that played batman where I said that's batman as he looks in the comics. But if we get actors that can do it fine, case in point I couldn't see Christian "Patrick Bateman" Bale as batman, but he's a pretty damn good batman.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Ryan Reynolds is the next case of Keaton syndrome to me. A baby-faced guy with a funny voice going to play fearless test pilot Hal Jordan Chris Evans as Captain America isn't much better, but for this movie there is no hope at all.

That said, Keaton didn't play the Batman from the comics, it's pretty much another character (which is also true for most "adaptions").

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Ryan Reynolds looks a lot like the comic-book Hal Jordan and Evans looks closer to Cap than all the other contenders to the role. Plus they're proven actors.
Keaton at the time was a gamble but a better choice than some of the names considered (Charlie Sheen?).

 

[El Payaso]

The other example of this I've seen recently is Seth Rogen as the Green Hornet. I did a giant facepalm when I heard about it. Then I saw the trailer and not only does Rogen seems completely wrong for the part but the whole movie feels like the classic "let's turn this into an average comedy" case.

Bruce Wayne of the comics looks like Clark Kent of the comics, minus the glasses. Tall, dark haired, handsome, well built.

Burton was trying to get away from this idea completely. Burton's whole vision of Batman is that he is not Superman, that he is someone who needs to put on a batsuit to scare people.

I think Burton improved the Batman character this way. It is traditional for heroes to be perfect physical specimens. But it makes more sense the Tim Burton way.

Oh yes. Never Batman's intimidating presence and tortured soul felt stronger than with Keaton.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I'm sick of people ragging on reynolds and evans when they're obviously qualified, but thats just me ranting, i think right now the closest thing to the michael keaton effect today is seth rogan as green hornet.

 

[maenalus]

Never Batman's intimidating presence and tortured soul felt stronger than with Keaton.

I agree completely. The scene in BM89 when Bruce smashes the vase over the fireplace, screams and looks at the Joker like a genuine psychopath.....bone-chilling!

 

[comicfan4Life]

I'm sick of people ragging on reynolds and evans when they're obviously qualified, but thats just me ranting, i think right now the closest thing to the michael keaton effect today is seth rogan as green hornet.

I honestly don't want to come off as a dick and offend you or anyone else, and if I do then I'm truly sorry and it was unintended, but how are they qualified to play those characters? According to Joey Q not long ago when posted on this site the reason Evans was casted was because he worked in a marvel film before and wore a blue outfit. Really, that's all it takes. I know he's a good actor, very underrated in my opinion, but I don't get Captain America from him. He's the smart-ass comedian of most movies and even when serious (Street Kings) he still doesn't come off as a person that I can see leading the U.S. military into battle, let alone the avengers.

Reynolds, again great actor too, and I'm happy he's starting to get bigger and take off, same for Chris but I don't see Hal Jordan. Mike Doyle plays one of Hal's brothers in the film and he looks more like Hal than Reynolds. I can't even buy him as Gardner and he plays guys like him in his sleep. There are certain characters that when played you go they are that character. Reynolds: Deadpool, Evans: Human Torch. I love them as actors, I hope they do great and their movies are good and they rock, but in no way as of now are they those characters in any other terms other than, "They're set to star in the films". I hope this is another Heath Ledger scenario, and I'll be there opening day like everyone else. But still, I'm supposed to believe RDJ, Mark Ruffalo, and Jeremy Renner are following the commands of Chris Evans? I can't even see Hemsworth as Thor listening to him and he & Evans are about the same age.

 

[El Payaso]

I haven't seen every Evans movie - nor I want to - but so far he's just a teenagers crush. His acting is really subpar. That and Joe Johnston keeps my expectations for Capt. America in zero.

 

[maenalus]

I never thought I'd hear CAPTAIN AMERICA referred to as "not a flag waver".

 

[cerealkiller182]

I never thought I'd hear CAPTAIN AMERICA referred to as "not a flag waver".

Its not the same America anymore. A "flag waver" nowadays is usually a finger pointing paranoid person who thinks everything and anything that doesnt strictly agree with them is anti-American. Rogers should have a more unfaulting personal morality rather an undying allegiance to government that is progressively losing trust with their people.

Ultimate Cap is a "flag-waver." USAgent is a "flag waver." Captain America is a boyscout.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Im very surprised when people say they can't see Hal Jordan and Ryan Reynolds. Seriously?

When people say Hal Jordan has no personality, theres usually a million people going "he's a hot-headed, cocky pilot. Whats not to like?" And now Ryan Reynolds is cast, and no one can see him being a good choice because he's "too cocky" Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[bullets]

I think Reynolds and Evans will suprise those who say nay but with Rogen we know what to expect. Green Hornet is more a Rogen vehicle than anything else

 

[cerealkiller182]

There is part of Green Hornet that is going to be a Rogen-vehicle, but I think they'll use the opportunity to be different as well.

 

[Nivek]

I could see Seth Rogan doing something close to "the Keaton effect" in Green Hornet. He was pretty physical and Dark in some scenes in Observe & Report.

 

[comicfan4Life]

Im very surprised when people say they can't see Hal Jordan and Ryan Reynolds. Seriously?

When people say Hal Jordan has no personality, theres usually a million people going "he's a hot-headed, cocky pilot. Whats not to like?" And now Ryan Reynolds is cast, and no one can see him being a good choice because he's "too cocky" Doesn't make any sense to me.

Well I fall into the million who say, "He's a hot headed, cocky pilot." But for me I think what gets me is he was cast as Wade Wilson and Wade is perfect for him. That said, it kinda irks me. It's like RDJ is Iron Man, but he's also playing Zod in Superman's new movie. I could see him as Hal maybe if he were just Hal, but he's Deadpool too. So, when you compare the two, he gets deadpool easy. But if he was Hal first then Deadpool, I guess me and others would go he's Hal not deadpool. I don't know if that makes sense, but I guess it comes down to, "He's already one popular character so he's another one now?" To me it's no big deal, he has to make a living like everyone else, but I just don't get Hal from him. Now, Wally West on the other hand I can see no problem.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Well I fall into the million who say, "He's a hot headed, cocky pilot." But for me I think what gets me is he was cast as Wade Wilson and Wade is perfect for him. That said, it kinda irks me. It's like RDJ is Iron Man, but he's also playing Zod in Superman's new movie. I could see him as Hal maybe if he were just Hal, but he's Deadpool too. So, when you compare the two, he gets deadpool easy. But if he was Hal first then Deadpool, I guess me and others would go he's Hal not deadpool. I don't know if that makes sense, but I guess it comes down to, "He's already one popular character so he's another one now?" To me it's no big deal, he has to make a living like everyone else, but I just don't get Hal from him. Now, Wally West on the other hand I can see, no prob.

But thats stupid (sorry). Why isnt Ryan Van Wilder? Hannibal King? Berg? The character from any movie he has already done or is going to do? Just because there superheroes doesnt make them that special. At the end of the day, they are still roles being played by an actor more than capable (much more) at performing the task.

 

[comicfan4Life]

But thats stupid (sorry). Why isnt Ryan Van Wilder? Hannibal King? Berg? The character from any movie he has already done or is going to do? Just because there superheroes doesnt make them that special. At the end of the day, they are still roles being played by an actor more than capable (much more) at performing the task.

Well it's kinda like why is Arnold the terminator or why Robert Englund is Freddy, they're good at it. No one else can play those roles, hence why when they made so many movies they brought them back. They tried Freddy without Robert and look at the response. Yeah, it was #1, made money, sure, but so was Friday the 13th and the sequel is not even going through because they were terrible movies. He isn't Hannibal King, because Hannibal King wasn't Hannibal King. How do you get loud mouth,one-liner, vampire killer from private detective vampire? He is however Van Wilder & Berg because those characters were made for him to play, not King, until Goyer wrote him that way, but it's still not King.

As for Superheroes not being that special, then why is hollywood in such a rush to make the movies then? Money, because they are a big deal to everyone else. If they weren't that special you wouldn't have comic-con and every hollywood guy in town bothering to showing up. Same with vampires, sure crazes come and go, but they come back eventually. Pretty soon, you could probably expect 80s style action flicks to come back in style if expendables kicks ass. But yes, I agree with you 100% that they are roles being played by capable actors that can perform the task well. Then sometimes you get stuff like Arny as Mr. Freeze, Clooney as Batman, Cage as Ghost Rider, or even O'Neal as Steel. But yes, Reynolds is a capable actor and so is Evans, but I still can't see them as those characters, but apparently I'm not the only one.

Do I want those films to kick ass? Yes! Do I want to be floored by their performances? Yes! But right now as it stands, I just can't see them for those roles, like most couldn't see Jane for Punisher, Ledger for Joker, or even Jackman for Logan. yet they were great, and despite me not seeing them in action yet I'm willing to give Reynolds & Evans a chance before I do like most others and go, "They suck, blah blah blah, etc."

 

[TNC9852002]

Hugh Jackman kinda comes to mind...Definitely not what people thought of when they think Wolverine back in 1999-2000.

Here you have this tall dark pretty boy, but who's managed to pull off a pretty decent portrayal albeit inconsistently written Wolverine...

 

[Brother Jack]

Hugh Jackman kinda comes to mind...Definitely not what people thought of when they think Wolverine back in 1999-2000.

Here you have this tall dark pretty boy, but who's managed to pull off a pretty decent portrayal albeit inconsistently written Wolverine...

That's one of the bigger ones. Heath Ledger is another, to a certain extent.

 

[comicfan4Life]

Hugh Jackman kinda comes to mind...Definitely not what people thought of when they think Wolverine back in 1999-2000.

Here you have this tall dark pretty boy, but who's managed to pull off a pretty decent portrayal albeit inconsistently written Wolverine...

That's one of the bigger ones. Heath Ledger is another, to a certain extent.

Exactly!

 

[Ipodman]

Already mentioned, Heath Ledger was a positive example.

Samuel L jackson as Nick Fury? So far so meh

 

[comicfan4Life]

Already mentioned, Heath Ledger was a positive example.

Samuel L jackson as Nick Fury? So far so meh

I feel you on that, but he's the most popular because marvel is doing the Ultimate U/616 thing where they keep 616 origins, but have 1610 character tweaks, etc. I feel personally if it was done just for the sake of it to say, "Here's Sam as Fury, based off of him as Fury in the comics." Then that's just a waste, but he really hasn't done anything yet as he's the set-up guy. Maybe when we get Avengers he'll get the chance to shine other than just being bad ass Sam with an eye patch that talks to the heroes.